How strong is Hercules really by comparison.........

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Plus, drastically holding back or no, he was still angrier than he had ever been. So any preior Hulk incarnations, he was stronger. They literally spelled it out:

Holding back his punches, doesn't mean he's holding back his speed or durability, and if he could, he would use his strength to end fights quickly.

As seen with She-Hulk:
https://i.imgur.com/RBT1hlo.jpg

Colossus:
https://arousinggrammardotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/hulk16.jpg

Talbot:
https://i.imgur.com/9yWXzg4.jpeg

And Cain, lol:
https://i.imgur.com/k0bTjPT.jpg

He wasn't holding back, when trying to end fights quickly.

Yet, when Cain was powered back up by Cytorrak - WWH was unable to put hum down.

His 'holding back', was to protect the little people.

Doesn't mean we simply extrapolate linearly and say, oh, every time Logan slashed him, it was him holding back, or when Strong Guy was dancing around him, he was holding back etc etc....

He held back the entire time. The stronger he becomes the more durable he became, and the faster his healing factor worked. Stop trying to redefine the character.

Originally posted by Smurph
That doesn’t answer the question. You keep saying Thor and Juggernaut are rivals in strength but also that Thor clearly overpowers Juggernaut. I’m asking which one it is: rivals or not?

Your answer is about durability and lasting power, not strength. The Thing has made a career out of taking punches and getting back up. Those aren’t strength feats.

So you're going to ignore the fact that the Hulk could've ramped up enough to use Cain like a basketball now? The Hulk held back the entire time because he was only there for Xavier. He wasn't there to punt Cain into deep space, or kill the dozens of Mutants standing between him and Xavier. Strictly arguing plot in a forum setting doesn't work 100%, because you'll unintentionally leave out a few things like to full capacity rule. The Hulk showed how much he held back while he was still on Earth per writers intent.

Originally posted by Smurph
That doesn’t answer the question. You keep saying Thor and Juggernaut are rivals in strength but also that Thor clearly overpowers Juggernaut. I’m asking which one it is: rivals or not?

Your answer is about durability and lasting power, not strength. The Thing has made a career out of taking punches and getting back up. Those aren’t strength feats.

I answered the wrong quote, in my last post. That was intended foe Psychotron.

Simon rivals Thor's strength level as well even though he isn't as strong as Thor. However, he is a helluva lot closer to Thor's strength level than Daredevil is to the Rhino's. Using the Rhino as an example is a bad move. Marvel uses him as a jobber to make weaker characters look great. Bad example.

Once again with feeling, Cain was trapped beneath an ancient temple that took him years to dig out of, while these other guys have feats that suggest that they could move continents. I'm simply using that which was given. Without his unstoppable enchantment, Cain's strength level dramatically fell.

Originally posted by Stoic

Simon rivals Thor's strength level as well even though he isn't as strong as Thor. However, he is a helluva lot closer to Thor's strength level than Daredevil is to the Rhino's. Using the Rhino as an example is a bad move. Marvel uses him as a jobber to make weaker characters look great. Bad example.

And Marvel also jobs the hell out of Juggernaut when it suits the story. It’s sort of the role of villains in general, especially bricks.

Originally posted by Stoic
I answered the wrong quote, in my last post. That was intended foe Psychotron.

Simon rivals Thor's strength level as well even though he isn't as strong as Thor. However, he is a helluva lot closer to Thor's strength level than Daredevil is to the Rhino's. Using the Rhino as an example is a bad move. Marvel uses him as a jobber to make weaker characters look great. Bad example.

Once again with feeling, Cain was trapped beneath an ancient temple that took him years to dig out of, while these other guys have feats that suggest that they could move continents. I'm simply using that which was given. Without his unstoppable enchantment, Cain's strength level dramatically fell.

Originally posted by Stoic
He held back the entire time. The stronger he becomes the more durable he became, and the faster his healing factor worked. Stop trying to redefine the character.

So you're going to ignore the fact that the Hulk could've ramped up enough to use Cain like a basketball now? The Hulk held back the entire time because he was only there for Xavier. He wasn't there to punt Cain into deep space, or kill the dozens of Mutants standing between him and Xavier. Strictly arguing plot in a forum setting doesn't work 100%, because you'll unintentionally leave out a few things like to full capacity rule. The Hulk showed how much he held back while he was still on Earth per writers intent.

Ok.

So I can take Savage Hulk's best ever healing feats, and say WWH's will be even faster than that?

Plus, you seem to ignore that WWH certainly didn't seem to hold back against She Hulk, Colossus, Talbot and Cain himself. Yet was unable to put Juggy down later. We saw he was absolutely fine with one shottimg She Hulk - his own cousin - why not one shot Juggy? Simple Q.

He was ok with crippling Colossus - why not cripple Juggy? Absolutely fine with smashing depowered Cain's face in, why not full powered?

So if anyone actually causes harm that lasts longer than the damage Savage suffered, they're that Uber?

Where does this stop? Can I take Savage's best speed feats, and say WWH was faster? So Strong Guy was just that much faster, then say, Spiderman, or Jack of Hearts?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Plus, drastically holding back or no, he was still angrier than he had ever been. So any preior Hulk incarnations, he was stronger. They literally spelled it out:

Holding back his punches, doesn't mean he's holding back his speed or durability, and if he could, he would use his strength to end fights quickly.

As seen with She-Hulk:
https://i.imgur.com/RBT1hlo.jpg

Colossus:
https://arousinggrammardotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/hulk16.jpg

Talbot:
https://i.imgur.com/9yWXzg4.jpeg

And Cain, lol:
https://i.imgur.com/k0bTjPT.jpg

He wasn't holding back, when trying to end fights quickly.

Yet, when Cain was powered back up by Cytorrak - WWH was unable to put hum down.

His 'holding back', was to protect the little people.

Doesn't mean we simply extrapolate linearly and say, oh, every time Logan slashed him, it was him holding back, or when Strong Guy was dancing around him, he was holding back etc etc....

Mister Gideon.

Not Talbot.

That's a carver level error, forum could've gone 404.

Even though he was stronger than ever, his intentions were never to kill his opponent. Him one punching people, bfring them, doesn't mean he was going all out. It was outright said on panel that he was holding back the entire time.

Not the argument, Carvy.

The point is that he was unable to put Juggy down when Cytorrak gave him his power back. Hulk was perfectly capable of one punching when he needed to, yet couldn't do it to Cain.

Mysterious!

I always took it as he couldn't beat him so he did the next best thing and bfred him.

Anyone thinking Juggernaut being easily beatable is crazy. Then, this was him fully restored after YEARS of not being at full power on panel. Usually characters have their best showings in situations like that. Hulk not one punching him shows how powerful a full powered Juggernaut is but it in no way make them equals. Even after Juggernauts appearance, Hulk was still considered the most powerful being on the planet that can not be stopped. Hulk is a FAR more threatening force than Juggernaut. Even the Xmen acknowledge Hulk as the most powerful being on Earth and yes, they've ran into Juggernaut.

Let's solidfy this, a full powered Juggernaut against Onslaught...

https://ibb.co/LxvSYTy
https://ibb.co/xGY1bXf

Hulk vs an amplified Onslaught that had the power of an abstract, the power of a being that was said to be equal to the Phoenix Force, that also had the power topped with the same Onslaught that Jugs fought. Onslaught and Hulk fight nearly destroyed Earth (a Hulk that ISNT holding back) and it was said on panel that Hulk punched Onslaught so hard it knocked the reality warping powers out of him. Crazy thing is, WWH was still reference as being the most powerful Hulk, by far. Hulk should not be mentioned here.

https://ibb.co/WztgnPD
https://ibb.co/WzZX9s6

Originally posted by carver9
Anyone thinking Juggernaut being easily beatable is crazy. Then, this was him fully restored after YEARS of not being at full power on panel. Usually characters have their best showings in situations like that. Hulk not one punching him shows how powerful a full powered Juggernaut is but it in no way make them equals. Even after Juggernauts appearance, Hulk was still considered the most powerful being on the planet that can not be stopped. Hulk is a FAR more threatening force than Juggernaut. Even the Xmen acknowledge Hulk as the most powerful being on Earth and yes, they've ran into Juggernaut.

Let's solidfy this, a full powered Juggernaut against Onslaught...

https://ibb.co/LxvSYTy
https://ibb.co/xGY1bXf

Hulk vs an amplified Onslaught that had the power of an abstract, the power of a being that was said to be equal to the Phoenix Force, that also had the power topped with the same Onslaught that Jugs fought. Onslaught and Hulk fight nearly destroyed Earth (a Hulk that ISNT holding back) and it was said on panel that Hulk punched Onslaught so hard it knocked the reality warping powers out of him. Crazy thing is, WWH was still reference as being the most powerful Hulk, by far. Hulk should not be mentioned here.

https://ibb.co/WztgnPD
https://ibb.co/WzZX9s6

Originally posted by lawest9
And yet you never waste an opportunity to remind everyone of how powerful you think Hulk is in any thread you post, if Hulk haven't been previously mentioned here you would've found a way to work this into the conversation. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Lol... I don't even post on KMC that much anymore. This place is specifically all DC now. I'm just speaking facts.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... I don't even post on KMC that much anymore. This place is specifically all DC now. I'm just speaking facts.

Originally posted by carver9
Anyone thinking Juggernaut being easily beatable is crazy. Then, this was him fully restored after YEARS of not being at full power on panel. Usually characters have their best showings in situations like that. Hulk not one punching him shows how powerful a full powered Juggernaut is but it in no way make them equals. Even after Juggernauts appearance, Hulk was still considered the most powerful being on the planet that can not be stopped. Hulk is a FAR more threatening force than Juggernaut. Even the Xmen acknowledge Hulk as the most powerful being on Earth and yes, they've ran into Juggernaut.

Let's solidfy this, a full powered Juggernaut against Onslaught...

https://ibb.co/LxvSYTy
https://ibb.co/xGY1bXf

Hulk vs an amplified Onslaught that had the power of an abstract, the power of a being that was said to be equal to the Phoenix Force, that also had the power topped with the same Onslaught that Jugs fought. Onslaught and Hulk fight nearly destroyed Earth (a Hulk that ISNT holding back) and it was said on panel that Hulk punched Onslaught so hard it knocked the reality warping powers out of him. Crazy thing is, WWH was still reference as being the most powerful Hulk, by far. Hulk should not be mentioned here.

https://ibb.co/WztgnPD
https://ibb.co/WzZX9s6

Why was Hulk being overpowered by Juggernaut in their lock up then? We clearly see Hulk's feet leave a trail as he's being pushed back. When Colossus locked up with WWH, Banner just twisted/broke his arms and moved on, but he didn't do that to Juggernaut. He had to resort to BFR instead.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Why was Hulk being overpowered by Juggernaut in their lock up then? We clearly see Hulk's feet leave a trail as he's being pushed back. When Colossus locked up with WWH, Banner just twisted/broke his arms and moved on, but he didn't do that to Juggernaut. He had to resort to BFR instead.

A single punch was used against his own cousin (and we know how much Hulk loves his family).

A single punch against Ares.

He crippled Colossus and Mr Gideon when they locked arms.

He three (two?) shot a depowered Cain.

Yet when Cain was powered up, he.....couldn't do anything apart from BFR. No one/two/three shots, nothing. Despite being this incredibly powerful (thanks for the scans Carv!!) version of Hulk.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... I don't even post on KMC that much anymore. This place is specifically all DC now. I'm just speaking facts.

Lies don't help anyone.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Why was Hulk being overpowered by Juggernaut in their lock up then? We clearly see Hulk's feet leave a trail as he's being pushed back. When Colossus locked up with WWH, Banner just twisted/broke his arms and moved on, but he didn't do that to Juggernaut. He had to resort to BFR instead.

It's simple. Juggernaut for one have an enchantment and Juggernaut is obviously stronger and more powerful than Colossus. His fight with Juggernaut would've taken much longer than his fight against Colossus and he mentions that he was short on time. Proof that he held back the entire time...

https://ibb.co/rbBS7yn
https://ibb.co/c2xxk86
https://ibb.co/QfMZj3V

Originally posted by carver9
It's simple. Juggernaut for one have an enchantment and Juggernaut is obviously stronger and more powerful than Colossus. His fight with Juggernaut would've taken much longer than his fight against Colossus and he mentions that he was short on time. Proof that he held back the entire time...

https://ibb.co/rbBS7yn
https://ibb.co/c2xxk86
https://ibb.co/QfMZj3V

But I thought Hulk had access to infinite power? Why couldn't he just access this and one-shot Juggy? Why would it have taken 'much' longer, when Juggy is not infinite?

If I have a car that has infinite speed, it doesn't matter if I am racing Usain Bolt or a jet fighter - sure, the fighter is faster than Usain, but it doesn't matter when I am at infinite speed. We can even replace this infinite speed with 50% lightspeed, lol.

Still wouldn't matter. Yet, in this analogy, the jet fight was still able to keep up with me. Curious.

I mean, mentioning he was short on time surely means he would be even MORE driven to oneshot Juggy.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I always took it as he couldn't beat him so he did the next best thing and bfred him.

Same here.

Sentry never faced Juggernaut, that would have been interesting.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I always took it as he couldn't beat him so he did the next best thing and bfred him.

Originally posted by cdtm
Same here.

Sentry never faced Juggernaut, that would have been interesting.

That's because the comic is pretty clear about showing that. It's what we're all supposed to take from it.