Abortion

FE> I did scroll – and didn’t find my answers – again. Point me to the posts directed to me where you answered my questions. Hey, wouldn’t it be cool if you could?

What I’m trying to get into your head is that a four-week old foetus is NO ONE. It’s not a cute little tiny cute baby, it’s no ones friend, daughter or son. But the woman is. Why is her life less important to you?
You believe in God. Wouldn’t it be better for the foetus to go straight to Heaven than to be born to parents who do not want it – or be born into perhaps poverty and violence?

Oh, the poem IS some woman having the shakes on the floor. WHAT does that have to do with anything? Want me to find reports on teen-age mothers, violence and drug-abuse?

Aha. I think I can assume that you do NOT support starving and poor kids in the third world. Yet you insist on MORE kids being born into starvation and poverty. Why?

Oh, and since you just missed ANOTHER question: If you cut off one of your fingers do you call the finger a human being?)

Phoenix> That’ll always be the case. You can’t make abortion ”go away” by making it illegal. You can only make it dangerous.

Badsymbiote> Using abortion as birth-control is a terrible idea. I have, however, read, that sexual education is LACKING in many parts of the US – is that true?

So abortion won’t go away – the best solution: EDUCATE! EDUCATE! EDUCATE. Make contraception is easily available, make sure kids learn about them and how to get them.

Yes, Omega. Sex Ed isn't even taught anymore in school for the most part. Too many parents get upset about the school teaching it, they want to be the ones to teach their children. Obviously, they're doing a bang up job. And then they go and wonder why their 13 year old daughter is pregnant.

BF> (Faints) That is a joke, RIGHT? No sexual education?!?!?!?!?
Maan...

There is some. "Wear a condom, everyone goes through puberty, don't rape people, etc". It's very bare bones, and very shitty.

you can sleep through most of that class except when they show a lady giving birth.creepy

Omega> The Christian view, however, is that you need to be christened to go to Heaven. They used to refuse to bury unbaptised babies in church graveyards.

BF> We still get sex ed in the UK. It's not very informative though.

Everyone> This is one of those arguements people have fixed sides on. no matter what anyone says, it's not going to change the other side's beliefs. I just think maybe if the anti-abortion movement in the US stopped blockading the clinics, things would be a lot better off for everyone. People are a lot more likely to accept their ideas if they were patient about it. All it does is mentally harm the women who are having abortions.

Trickster> What about spontaneous abortions? Any clue... ?

The things is… I can easily accept that some people are against abortions. That’s their choice, if they get pregnant and don’t want the kid – well, then they do NOT get an abortion. Simple as that.
Pro-choice people would NEVER force their views on the other side. That cannot be said about people who’re against abortion – as you point out, they are indeed trying to force their views on other people.
“Save life! Shoot an abortion-doctor!” Man, the hypocrisy.

Originally posted by Trickster
Omega> The Christian view, however, is that you need to be christened to go to Heaven. They used to refuse to bury unbaptised babies in church graveyards.

Originally posted by yerssot
no, the christian view is that priests and such can baptise people so they can go to heaven
jezus and god don't need to baptise someone to get him/her there

Ah well, that's what I was told about Heaven in another forum. I do know they used to refuse burial though.

So priests can christen those people who have died?

only before they die, jezus and god can do it whenever they like

EDIT: to clarify:
"only before they die", the they means the ones that didn't got baptised

Well, if God and Jesus really existed – frankly – I don’t think they’d give a damn whether or not you were baptised.

Fundamentalists might tell you otherwise...

Originally posted by The Omega

Badsymbiote> Using abortion as birth-control is a terrible idea. I have, however, read, that sexual education is LACKING in many parts of the US – is that true?

So abortion won’t go away – the best solution: EDUCATE! EDUCATE! EDUCATE. Make contraception is easily available, make sure kids learn about them and how to get them.

I would say that it's getting better now, and the issue is finally being addressed again, but there are a large group of young people (Generally, I'd say the broad-range group of youths aged 12 or 13 to age 20 or 21 at present) today were really disserviced by both 'education' and the lack of presence of a strong male or female rolemodel or parent(s) in their day-to-day lives.
Cell-phone interaction with your teenager does not constitute a viable relationship. The parents are so busy with themselves, and the kids are so focused on their material posessions that they've allowed their parents cash gifts to guage real parental concern. The girls leave their houses in the morning with their g-string underwear sticking out of the backs of their too-tight jeans, with their made up faces teasing the boys.

Ignorant boy meets ignorant girl, and the inevitable happens.

But now, a girl can get an abortion withput her parents even knowing, possibly damaging her own reproductive organs in the process. Most of these girls do not care--some girls use the opportunity to secure claim on the boy or man who impregnated them, using the child as leverage and securing a monetary support claim to generate some income.
It's sick, and you would not believe to what extremes some teenagers will resort to keep from being held directly responsible for their own behavior, or to keep themselves from ever having to be a contributing member to society, or to raise their young to the same end.

Fortunately, there seems end in sight. I was talking to a 17 year old kid, and he said they are required to take a course he called "Reducing the Risk". I chuckled at the name, because it's a far cry from the generic health class I took in school, which highlighted the male and female reproductive systems and covered all stds in an hour a day over the span of two weeks. Talk about intensive and focused curriculum.

Try having a mother who works in the NY Department of health....talk about too much information 😐 I mean, it's great that I know all these things, but she didn't have to start preaching to me when I was 12.

abortion is murder. if you dont want the baby-adoption.

short and to the point eh?

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Try having a mother who works in the NY Department of health....talk about too much information 😐 I mean, it's great that I know all these things, but she didn't have to start preaching to me when I was 12.

Oh, I can understand that, I suppose it would lessen the mystique considerably-- but believe me, she at least really must care for you.

And you seem to have a good head on your shoulders. She may have had something to do with that, too, ya think? It may be burdensome at times to have a mother that cares enough to arm you with the facts at such an early age, but like you mentioned, probably laden with graphic detail.

I have never underestimated the value of unwavering parental involvement and love.

Originally posted by The Omega
Well, if God and Jesus really existed – frankly – I don’t think they’d give a damn whether or not you were baptised.

Fundamentalists might tell you otherwise...

Jesus and God don't give a shit - they love everyone equally, sinners included! 😄

Originally posted by BackFire
Yes, Omega. Sex Ed isn't even taught anymore in school for the most part. Too many parents get upset about the school teaching it, they want to be the ones to teach their children. Obviously, they're doing a bang up job. And then they go and wonder why their 13 year old daughter is pregnant.

I was watching a programme about that a few years ago, actually... It said that the country with the best Sex Education course was also the one with the fewest teenage pregnancies ((which are a prime target for abortion)) - guess where it was - HOLLAND!

Apparently, they start sex ed as early as 6 ((correct me if I'm wrong)) and they even teach about gay sex - something my school NEVER did

yes, the problem is that so many countries are uptight about the whole sex ed thing, i had a once off 1 hour class, that was it. The rest i had to learn from books and experience.

Originally posted by pr1983
yes, the problem is that so many countries are uptight about the whole sex ed thing, i had a once off 1 hour class, that was it. The rest i had to learn from books and experience.

Seriously?!? That's actually very shocking. In East Anglia, we have a 1 hour class when 9, a six hour ((spread out over six weeks)) class at 10, then roughly six hours a year until leaving compulsory education. Even in sixth form, we still had assemblies on STDs, STIs and breast and testicular cancer