Abortion

Originally posted by sithsaber408
What the f*ck??? 😆

I disagree with killing innocent life, some people don't, so......

my logic is flawed????!!????

Arguing with a pro-choicer [B]is logical if I believe that the choice they advocate is WRONG.

Your a 'tard. [/B]

You are obviously incapable of extracting the point, so I'll be a helpful guy and do it for you.

There are three main options, right? Abortion, adoption, child birth. You disagree with ONE of those, correct? Yes. So then if you disagree with only one, and pro-choicers inevitably support all three, then why are you using all your energy up to focus on the fact that pro-choicers also support the one option you DON'T like?

In every reply you say that pro-choicers support abortion, you fail to also highlight the fact that they support the other two options that YOU fight for. For the same reasons? Maybe not, but the same options nonetheless.

You highlight abortion in an attempt to make pro-choicers look bad, and end up making yourself look stupid instead of thinking "Well wait, they're not saying abortion is the best, they're saying they support it as an option. Just like they also support child birth and adoption." You don't have to agree with abortion, but you fail to highlight the fact that pro-choicers also support the other options.

Whether you do this intentionally or not is unknown. I'm going with intentionally since you love to claim how you "know" what the pro-choice stance is.

Did I move to fast for you? Or shall I crack open paint and draw you a pretty diagram?

-AC

Originally posted by sithsaber408

The entire country of Germany was "okay with" global domination and genocide

Untrue.

Originally posted by StyleTime

The difference in your analogy is that the world is FACTUALLY flat. Believing otherwise is stupid.

Spherical...

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You are obviously incapable of extracting the point, so I'll be a helpful guy and do it for you.

There are three main options, right? Abortion, adoption, child birth. You disagree with ONE of those, correct? Yes. So then if you disagree with only one, and pro-choicers inevitably support all three, then why are you using all your energy up to focus on the fact that pro-choicers also support the one option you DON'T like?

In every reply you say that pro-choicers support abortion, you fail to also highlight the fact that they support the other two options that YOU fight for. For the same reasons? Maybe not, but the same options nonetheless.

You highlight abortion in an attempt to make pro-choicers look bad, and end up making yourself look stupid instead of thinking "Well wait, they're not saying abortion is the best, they're saying they support it as an option. Just like they also support child birth and adoption." You don't have to agree with abortion, but you fail to highlight the fact that pro-choicers also support the other options.

Whether you do this intentionally or not is unknown. I'm going with intentionally since you love to claim how you "know" what the pro-choice stance is.

Did I move to fast for you? Or shall I crack open paint and draw you a pretty diagram?

-AC

I use up all my energy focusing on the fact that they support the one that I believe is wrong (don't say "don't like", pro-lifers are a little stronger about it than that)..........

Because I believe it is wrong.

The fact that they support 2 views I agree with will not change the fact that they support one that I believe to be horrible.

Are you trying to convert me to be pro-choice because of the variety of choices available to that postition?

Sorry dude, I'm not Makedde. (no offense, okay Mak?)

I don't say anything to make "pro-choicer's look bad" but to express my problems with the killing of innocent lives.

And of course it's intentional, one of the choices they support means that a baby will not get to be born becuase of a woman's selfishness in getting cocked down whenver she wants, but not keeping the innocent life that was concieved in her moment of passion.

You and any other pro-choice persons "full range of available options" will never change that feeling.

Got it, or do you need me to paint it for you?

(good crack at whob, and his obsessions with cut/paste/paint by the way.) 😉

I think "sithsabur" is missing the point here- somehow the baby's right to life is trumping the mother's right to her own body and her own life. A fetus, which isn't capable of higher reasoning (The very thing by which we give ourselves rights and deny animals rights to life) . Somehow a baby that is deemed "innocent" but could grow up to be a rapist, murderer, saint, or sinner, is more important than a woman's life for nine months, plus the rest of her life should she have to support the child.

I don't see that. I don't see how people can claim a fetus is worth more than a dog or a cat morally, or a sheep or cow. A fetus is not capable of higher reasoning. It does not know right from wrong. It cannot vote. It cannot recognize much even in later development.

Let me change the circumstance to better put this into perspective- imagine that the thing growing in YOUR stomach is a living thing. It may or may not be good or bad. It may or may not develop to have higher rational thought. But let's say for the sake of argument it isn't human.

Would you still carry it? Would it still be your moral duty? Why?

Originally posted by sithsaber408
The fact that they support 2 views I agree with will not change the fact that they support one that I believe to be horrible.

And that is completely fine, you are missing the point.

Just because they support one view you don't like, it's no reason to continually highlight that single point as if it's the only option they support. Which is what you do, and continue to do, despite claiming that you know it's false.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Are you trying to convert me to be pro-choice because of the variety of choices available to that postition?

Sorry dude, I'm not Makedde. (no offense, okay Mak?)

No, I'm not, again...you missed the point. The point above.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I don't say anything to make "pro-choicer's look bad" but to express my problems with the killing of innocent lives.

You fail to acknowledge in your posts that there is more to being pro-choice than supporting abortion.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
And of course it's intentional, one of the choices they support means that a baby will not get to be born becuase of a woman's selfishness in getting cocked down whenver she wants, but not keeping the innocent life that was concieved in her moment of passion.

Yeah, and two of the choices they support means it will. Why is it fair to just highlight the one? Supporting abortion isn't all pro-choice is about.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
You and any other pro-choice persons "full range of available options" will never change that feeling.

Not trying to, missed the point again.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Got it, or do you need me to paint it for you?

(good crack at whob, and his obsessions with cut/paste/paint by the way.) 😉

You missed my point three times. I don't see why you found it a suitable end to your post to imply that I not only missed your point, but rehashing something I previously said.

Now, to make sure this never happens again, I've drawn you the pretty picture I promised. Hopefully it will help you.

-AC

Originally posted by sithsaber408

I believe them to be wrong (just as much my rite, as is yours to believe them ok) but I don't doubt that those are the viewpoints of either yourself or the pro-choice movement.

Yea, it is your right to believe them to be wrong, and it is other's right ro believe them to be right.

Just because some people believe abortion is wrong does not mean it should be banned for everyone.

Some people thought drinking was wrong. Look where banning that got us.

Believe whatever the hell you want, but leave the choice availible for everyone else.

Originally posted by Wesker
I think "sithsabur" is missing the point here- somehow the baby's right to life is trumping the mother's right to her own body and her own life. A fetus, which isn't capable of higher reasoning (The very thing by which we give ourselves rights and deny animals rights to life) . Somehow a baby that is deemed "innocent" but could grow up to be a rapist, murderer, saint, or sinner, is more important than a woman's life for nine months, plus the rest of her life should she have to support the child.

I don't see that. I don't see how people can claim a fetus is worth more than a dog or a cat morally, or a sheep or cow. A fetus is not capable of higher reasoning. It does not know right from wrong. It cannot vote. It cannot recognize much even in later development.

Let me change the circumstance to better put this into perspective- imagine that the thing growing in YOUR stomach is a living thing. It may or may not be good or bad. It may or may not develop to have higher rational thought. But let's say for the sake of argument it isn't human.

Would you still carry it? Would it still be your moral duty? Why?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
And that is completely fine, you are missing the point.

Just because they support one view you don't like, it's no reason to continually highlight that single point as if it's the only option they support. Which is what you do, and continue to do, despite claiming that you know it's false.

No, I'm not, again...you missed the point. The point above.

You fail to acknowledge in your posts that there is more to being pro-choice than supporting abortion.

Yeah, and two of the choices they support means it will. Why is it fair to just highlight the one? Supporting abortion isn't all pro-choice is about.

Not trying to, missed the point again.

You missed my point three times. I don't see why you found it a suitable end to your post to imply that I not only missed your point, but rehashing something I previously said.

Now, to make sure this never happens again, I've drawn you the pretty picture I promised. Hopefully it will help you.

-AC

*sigh*

🙄

The intellectuals are batting 1.000 in here today.

Arachnoid, while I disagree on the merits of abortion, that was a good post, you made your position on the issue clear.

But, as someone advocating a woman's right to vote, or ending slavery, or speaking out against the Holocaust would never cave to popular opinion, I will not stop feeling what I feel, thinking what I think, believing what I believe.

And I will take whatever legal action that I can through my rites as a voter to see that my views are given the full consideration they deserve.

You take yours.

We will see what happens.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Yea, it is your right to believe them to be wrong, and it is other's right ro believe them to be right.

Just because some people believe abortion is wrong does not mean it should be banned for everyone.

Unless of course you live in the USA and the majority believe it to be "wrong." Then from a legal standpoint it very well can be wrong.

Ac, that pic kicks ass.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
*sigh*

🙄

The intellectuals are batting 1.000 in here today.

So if you have always been confined to the bench in this debate, every time you meekly try to join in, what does that make you?

Originally posted by Wesker
Ac, that pic kicks ass.

Thanks, mate.

Why are you so out of order to Leon and Chris? I forgot, you're not really Wesker.

-AC

Well, as voters in the same country Sith, our votes will be cancelling each other out.

And we have yet to see which is the majority, solerean. Abortion is legal in 49 states for a reason. And I suspect that remaining state to be heavily challenged. And if it remains illegal there, I expect many women to be leaving the state.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Well, as voters in the same country Sith, our votes will be cancelling each other out.

And we have yet to see which is the majority, solerean. Abortion is legal in 49 states for a reason. And I suspect that remaining state to be heavily challenged. And if it remains illegal there, I expect many women to be leaving the state.

Yeah absolutely its not like all choices are taken away just one. Not to mention in the USA I thought just like in South Dakota they are leaving it to individual states to determine the law..............................

Anyway there are only 48 states and the Country of California! Seriously didn't you know Arnold is the president of California!

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Well, as voters in the same country Sith, our votes will be cancelling each other out.

And we have yet to see which is the majority, solerean. Abortion is legal in 49 states for a reason. And I suspect that remaining state to be heavily challenged. And if it remains illegal there, I expect many women to be leaving the state.

6 or 7 other states already have bills like that which will be up for a vote soon.

It will go to the U.S. supreme court soon.

As I said, we will see what happens.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So if you have always been confined to the bench in this debate, every time you meekly try to join in, what does that make you?

-AC

smarter than you.

"The position you disagree with also supports some of the options you DO agree with. Why do you foucus on the parts you don't agree with?"

😐

Originally posted by sithsaber408
smarter than you.

"The position you disagree with also supports some of the options you DO agree with. Why do you foucus on the parts you don't agree with?"

😐

Smarter than me? Don't make me laugh.

Three in depth explanations and a paint diagram, yet you still don't get my point, or you're just ignoring it, which is worse. Point proven.

-AC

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Well, as voters in the same country Sith, our votes will be cancelling each other out.

And we have yet to see which is the majority, solerean. Abortion is legal in 49 states for a reason. And I suspect that remaining state to be heavily challenged. And if it remains illegal there, I expect many women to be leaving the state.

Oh and legislation I might add like South Dakota's is ridiculous in my opinion..................Garbage stacked any higher might be called North Dakota 😱

smarter than you.

Yes, because someone who's location is "Yoda's toilet" and has numbers in his screen name is much smarter.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Smarter than me? Don't make me laugh.

Three in depth explanations and a paint diagram, yet you still don't get my point, or you're just ignoring it, which is worse. Point proven.

-AC

And I couldn't very well care if the pro-choice movement is okay with birth and adoption, because they are also okay with abortion.

You are talking to someone who is against abortion, who would never approve of it, and calling him stupid for not caving.

pot=kettle, dipshit.

Originally posted by Wesker
Yes, because someone who's location is "Yoda's toilet" and has numbers in his screen name is much smarter.

408 is the area code of the Bay Area in California where I'm from and Yoda's urinal is where I go to piss on numbskulls like you,...who are behind their fictional guns in video games, using game characters for a name, and somehow have the audacity to make fun of me for the same type of things and think that they are clever.

(while also being completly off topic.)

Originally posted by sithsaber408
And I couldn't very well care if the pro-choice movement is okay with birth and adoption, because they are also okay with abortion.

You are talking to someone who is against abortion, who would never approve of it, and calling him stupid for not caving.

pot=kettle dipshit.

Hahahaha, I'm not asking you to approve of abortion you senseless dewberry.

Try reading my posts.

-AC

Originally posted by sithsaber408
The fact is, you kill a baby.

Call it a fetus to ease your conscience if you like, but it will grow into a baby, a human life.

I don't believe that you should kill the baby in any circumstance other than to save the life of the mother, and you know that.

Trying to degrade me as a person will not change this view, nor the millions of other people who hold it, and who are taking leagal action to end this B.S.

The 3 pages of info. was just the scientific facts about the negative aspects of abortion, not really to support a ban, just to inform on the detrimental effects of the procedure.

But like anything else, you will take away from it what you wish.

Want a reason for a ban?

It's the only time we allow the taking of an INNOCENT human life, against it's own will.

And no horseshit "choice is more valuable than life"..... the jury is still out on that one. (see Ireland, South Dakota, many more to come)

Again, the argument comes down to life. A FOETUS IS NOT A BABY. YOU CANNOT PROVE IT TO BE THE SAME AS ANOTHER HUMAN BEING. In the same way, I can't prove that it is not. The whole thing (so far as we know) comes down to people's opinions. So (I've said this before), if the foetus has the potential to become a human and it must be protected, that would mean that we would also have to protect the sperm and eggs of every single person on Earth. It's not that far of a stretch. Oh hey, if you give the foetus a place to grow, digest food and give it nutrients, in 9 months you'll have a person. If you put some sperm into a woman and join it with an egg, then do the aforementioned, you'll have a person. So sex and masturbation are suddenly the equivalent of killing a person. Wow.

So choice is not more valuable than life? "Give me liberty or give me death" anyone?

Answer me a question SithSaber: would you live under a dictatorship where you had no rights other than the right to life?

Originally posted by some angry ID fellow who thinks women should shut up and endure nine months of trauma for a moral obligation which only fanatics and fundamentalists share

408 is the area code of the Bay Area in California where I'm from and Yoda's urinal is where I go to piss on numbskulls like you,...who are behind their fictional guns in video games, using game characters for a name, and somehow have the audacity to make fun of me for the same type of things and think that they are clever.

No, I was making fun of you for being irrational and having a screen name that was all one word, lower caps, with seemingly random numbers tacked on the end of it. That and the "Yoda's toilet" doesn't really paint you in the "intelligent and mature" light. And if you're Intelligently Designed, God needs to be smacked.