Gah the man has an opinion no need to attempt to kneecap for it. This isn't the curbside dentist forum......................hopefully in my opinion in the USA I hope we don't come to the point where we all live in an absolute pro-life "state." Yeah know though since I do live in Missiouri the belt buckle of the bible belt in the USA I am ashamed of my redneck neighbors for not passing that legislation first though!
Originally posted by crazylozer
Again, the argument comes down to life. A FOETUS IS NOT A BABY. YOU CANNOT PROVE IT TO BE THE SAME AS ANOTHER HUMAN BEING. In the same way, I can't prove that it is not. The whole thing (so far as we know) comes down to people's opinions. So (I've said this before), if the foetus has the potential to become a human and it must be protected, that would mean that we would also have to protect the sperm and eggs of every single person on Earth. It's not that far of a stretch. Oh hey, if you give the foetus a place to grow, digest food and give it nutrients, in 9 months you'll have a person. If you put some sperm into a woman and join it with an egg, then do the aforementioned, you'll have a person. So sex and masturbation are suddenly the equivalent of killing a person. Wow.So choice is not more valuable than life? "Give me liberty or give me death" anyone?
Answer me a question SithSaber: would you live under a dictatorship where you had no rights other than the right to life?
That's a good post.
No, masturbation is not killing, because while sperm may have life, it isn't considered to become human until fertilizing a womans egg.
And no, I wouldn't want to live in a dictatorship, but yes I believe in the right to life.
One does not have anything to do with the other.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Hahahaha, I'm not asking you to approve of abortion you senseless dewberry.Try reading my posts.
-AC
I have.
They say that I shouldn't focus on the one aspect of pro-choice that I don't like.
Obviously, if I don't like it, if I believe it to be the unethical acceptance of killing innocent lives, I will focus on it.
You exasperate me, young man.
here,
soap
Originally posted by soleran30
LOL no it was wesker that bipassed a reasonable post and went for the throat which I am ok with I am no peacekeeper just I prefer to read/discuss abortion here and not bogus forum slam............
Hey my throat's fine.
I don't need any help dealing with these life-n00b's.
But thanks. 🙂
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I've actually said that he has full right to an opinion, Sol. That was never my issue.The fact that he believes it is, suggests (proves) that he's not capable of grasping my point.
-AC
What is your point, really?
Originally posted by soleran30
LOL no it was wesker that bipassed a reasonable post and went for the throat which I am ok with I am no peacekeeper just I prefer to read/discuss abortion here and not bogus forum slam............
I haven't seen sithsaber really do much brainwork here, just a lot of parroting his own beliefs. I don't intend to make an effort to ridicule him as a person because he does that just fine on his own.
I'll keep it on topic from now on. Play nice and such.
... When he addresses mine or AC's points for once.
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Spherical...
Originally posted by sithsaber408
And I couldn't very well care if the pro-choice movement is okay with birth and adoption, because they are also okay with abortion.You are talking to someone who is against abortion, who would never approve of it, and calling him stupid for not caving.
You DO NOT have to agree with abortion to be pro choice.
Originally posted by Wesker
I haven't seen sithsaber really do much brainwork here, just a lot of parroting his own beliefs. I don't intend to make an effort to ridicule him as a person because he does that just fine on his own.I'll keep it on topic from now on. Play nice and such.
... When he addresses mine or AC's points for once.
Try reading the last 15-20 pages, and you may get a little more info of where I and others, sit on this issue, including scientific data that relates to how many people we actually lose to abortion, the negative health affects of abortion, how many people actually get pregnant from rape each year, etc....
Then jump back in.
Here,
soap,
Originally posted by Ushgarak
You are seriously asking me to provide evidence that the belief that the foetus has a right to live existed before 1967? Don't waste my time witn inanity; Pro-Life is a philisophical belief and has exoisted in most of recorded history. it just has a certain ane these days. And how in the HELL can you not know that there are plenty of Pro-Life advocates whose view is nothing to do with conception at all? Are you entirely ignorant? Like I say, the Pro-Life movement is riven by massive philisophical splits within itself. The idea that life begins at conception is almost entirely a religious one. A belief in Pro-Life need not be religious at all.
I never stated that the belief that a fetus has the right to life did not exist before 1967. I stated that the Pro-Life movement did not exist before 1967. What I seriously expect of you is to substantiate the claim you made, i.e. that the Pro-Life movement began before 1967.
Moreover, if there are "plenty of Pro-Life advocates" who do not believe that life begins at conception, you should have no problem naming them.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
That's a good post.No, masturbation is not killing, because while sperm may have life, it isn't considered to become human until fertilizing a womans egg.
And no, I wouldn't want to live in a dictatorship, but yes I believe in the right to life.
One does not have anything to do with the other.
You see, that is your view of what 'human' is. Sperm has 46 chromosomes and it has the potential to become a human just as a foetus does. It all comes down to when people think that a human is created.
But you didn't quite grasp the gist of my question. Would you rather be dead or live under a society where you had no rights? Would you say that all wars are futile because they end human life?
And following those two: Would you have agreed to surrender to Hitler and live under German rule so as not to have so many soldiers killed? Forget about the genocide part, the counter-point being now that the governments are allowing people in third-world countries die of disease and starvation.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
That was dry humor, youngster.Don't worry your hope is secure, I ignore all ignorant people.
Here,
soap
You're only two years older than me, so you are also a youngster. Just incase you used it in a derogatory way.
Just for kicks, I'll tell you my point in such a clear way even YOU will get it:
You don't have to like abortion, or agree with it. When you address pro-choicers, you shouldn't be acting as though supporting abortion is the only thing they believe in. YOU say you know it's more than that, so why do you continually leave it out of your posts and act as though pro-choicers are only pro-abortion? It's dumb, stop doing it.
-AC
Originally posted by crazylozer
You see, that is your view of what 'human' is. Sperm has 46 chromosomes and it has the potential to become a human just as a foetus does. It all comes down to when people think that a human is created.But you didn't quite grasp the gist of my question. Would you rather be dead or live under a society where you had no rights? Would you say that all wars are futile because they end human life?
And following those two: Would you have agreed to surrender to Hitler and live under German rule so as not to have so many soldiers killed? Forget about the genocide part, the counter-point being now that the governments are allowing people in third-world countries die of disease and starvation.
*sigh*
You win, abortion is good. A choice by a selfish, simplistic person is more important than the life of an innocent child.
1.) live
2.)no. Some wars are necessary, despite the loss of human life.
3.) Of course not. Hitler was doing evil and needed stopping, sound familiar?
True, the governments are doing shit about the poor, hungry people in less developed areas of the world which is sad, un-neccessary, and inexcusable. 😒
(kinda like abortion, or the removing of God from money, pledges, monuments, etc... that the government allows.)
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Try reading the last 15-20 pages, and you may get a little more info of where I and others, sit on this issue, including scientific data that relates to how many people we actually lose to abortion, the negative health affects of abortion, how many people actually get pregnant from rape each year, etc....Then jump back in.
Here,
soap,
Oh, so you can't reiterate your stance and prove it up? I have to sort through over twenty pages? And you can't address the points being brought up now?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're only two years older than me, so you are also a youngster. Just incase you used it in a derogatory way.Just for kicks, I'll tell you my point in such a clear way even YOU will get it:
You don't have to like abortion, or agree with it. When you address pro-choicers, you shouldn't be acting as though supporting abortion is the only thing they believe in. YOU say you know it's more than that, so why do you continually leave it out of your posts and act as though pro-choicers are only pro-abortion? It's dumb, stop doing it.
-AC
Because that belief of a pro-choice person involves death of innocent lives, which to me, trumps the other beliefs in importance.
I get you a little better now, that you want the other things too, but won't stand in the way of the 3rd choice.
I get it.
I would stand in the way, becuase I believe abortion to be the killing of innocent human life, and you don't, so you wouldn't.
So....
Here we are.
At an impass. (which is where many of these debates usually go.)
(I was calling you "youngster " in humour, hence the bar of soap.) 🙂
Originally posted by soleran30
hmm seems like abortion is an arguement that will never have resolution.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Because that belief of a pro-choice person involves death of innocent lives, which to me, trumps the other beliefs in importance.I get you a little better now, that you want the other things too, but won't stand in the way of the 3rd choice.
I get it.
I would stand in the way, becuase I believe abortion to be the killing of innocent human life, and you don't, so you wouldn't.
So....
Here we are.
At an impass. (which is where many of these debates usually go.)
(I was calling you "youngster " in humour, hence the bar of soap.) 🙂
For the last time, my point:
When you are addressing pro-choicers, regardless of how important you believe the other aspects of pro-choice to be, do not fail to address or ignore the fact that they DO believe in the other options also. Don't put it across as though pro-choice = pro-abortion, solely.
That's all I was saying.
With regards to you believing it's an innocent human life...well, it's innocent in the anal sense of never having done anything, ever. It (at some point) is a human life. The reason I believe abortions are ok is because if I were to care about anyone, it'd be the people already living here.
-AC