Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Show me where I said it wasn't. I said it's foolish and pitiful for you to all of a sudden shift standpoints now that all your others have been obliterated.-AC
Heard of a site called www.prochoicetalk.com? I actually post there, and my views will seem different there than they are here. That's because I actually get treated with some respect, and no one gives a toss if my opinion shifts. My opinion always shifts, depends on my mood. 😛
Originally posted by crazylozer
You see, that is your view of what 'human' is. Sperm has 46 chromosomes and it has the potential to become a human just as a foetus does. It all comes down to when people think that a human is created.
Stupid argument.
If I peel off enough layers of my skin, I'll come up with 46 chromosomes as well...does that mean those layers of my skin, now represent life? 😕
Let's just break this whole argument down into simplistic terms, for those individuals who still have difficulty understanding what "human life" is represented by.
sperm + egg(conception) = fertilized egg = human life
sperm + hand = messy hand = no human life
sperm + bed sheets = messy bed = no human life
Get my drift bud?😉
So anyway..even the most religious of individuals, and the secular one's who have a certain degree of common sense, understand that human life begins, at the moment of "conception."
And again conception = fertilized egg
In today's societies, human beings have multiple ways to block conception..through birth control pills, condoms, birth control shots, sponges, etc, etc, etc...
There is no need for one to get pregnant, if they do not want to.
My general position is that we should defend all human life, regardless of what stages it is in. Nowadays, many individuals will fight for the life of unborn chickens. I don't know about you, but I do think that human life is a bit more important than that of a chicken?😉
Fin
Originally posted by Makedde
Heard of a site called www.prochoicetalk.com? I actually post there, and my views will seem different there than they are here. That's because I actually get treated with some respect, and no one gives a toss if my opinion shifts. My opinion always shifts, depends on my mood. 😛
You request respect but admit that your opinion shifts in debate depending on your mood? Please, don't make me laugh.
You basically want respect for nothing, when infact you don't deserve it. Your place here is lost, and has been for a while.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
So anyway..even the most religious of individuals, and the secular one's who have a certain degree of common sense, understand that human life begins, at the moment of "conception."
It's on the path to life at conception. Path to...path...to.
I might go get on a bus to go shopping. As soon as I step on the bus, am I as good as at the store just because I'm on my way? No.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
In today's societies, human beings have multiple ways to block conception..through birth control pills, condoms, birth control shots, sponges, etc, etc, etc...There is no need for one to get pregnant, if they do not want to.
Apparantly never heard of contraception failing. So let me be the first to enlighten you:
Contraception can fail.
There we go.
You say fin, I say flipper. Flipping. Flimsy. Y-your debates.
(If you know it's not finished, I would recommend not saying fin)
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's on the path to life at conception. Path to...path...to.I might go get on a bus to go shopping. As soon as I step on the bus, am I as good as at the store just because I'm on my way? No.
Didn't someone mention diagrams a few posts ago..🙄 😆
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Apparantly never heard of contraception failing. So let me be the first to enlighten you:Contraception can fail.
There we go.
Oh I get it..the justification for killing an unborn child is..
"Contraception can fail"
Sounds rational. You should have stated that at the beginning of this thread. I'm sure we could have ended this debate many pages ago..😉
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You say fin, I say flipper. Flipping. Flimsy. Y-your debates.(If you know it's not finished, I would recommend not saying fin)
-AC
How about this..from this point on, I'll only state "fin" when I'm done with a post..and "finis" when I've owned someone in an argument, and I'm done arguing with them.😉
Finis
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Didn't someone mention diagrams a few posts ago..🙄 😆
Great, you showed what conception means. Splendid. Everyone here (hopefully) knows what conception means.
What you were supposed to do, I believe, was prove why human life BEGINS at conception, not what conception means. Since you can't do that (factually), I believe you can take a rest.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Oh I get it..the justification for killing an unborn child is.."Contraception can fail"
You said nobody has to get pregnant if they don't want to, right?
Citing contraceptions as a reason to not get pregnant, right?
I said contraceptions can fail, right?
Hence women sometimes getting pregnant if they don't want to, right? Right.
Not AWFULLY smart are you?
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Sounds rational. You should have stated that at the beginning of this thread. I'm sure we could have ended this debate many pages ago..😉
It was, but you can never account for KMC's idiotic populace not being able to grasp simple premises.
However, I've seen you in other threads and I would like to quickly and peacefully get a little something out of the way first, because this thread has suffered enough.
Your penchant for over-using the words "owned" and "fin" (ironically removing any effect or impact from them at all) notwithstanding, it's really not needed here Whob. If you have a case or point to make, I will gladly discuss it with you. No need for "owned" and "fin" and all that, is there? Surely you are above using such childish terms.
Good. Let's proceed.
-AC
No disrespect here Whob, but I...oh god, I hope I'm not out of my league. Erm...this?
Originally posted by whobdamandog
So anyway..even the most religious of individuals, and the secular one's who have a certain degree of common sense, understand that human life begins, at the moment of "conception."
"...human life begins, at the moment of 'conception'".
I've...I've got a bit of a problem with that, you see. You're trying to prove life begins at conception...human life, correct? Yes, you said so in the above quote.
Cells are not a human life, so...oh man..give me a sec, so...if cells are not a human life, and cells are exactly what's there at conception...how can it be human life at conception? It's human life only when it becomes a foetus...so, to refer to your trusty friend Dictionary.Com:
If it's only a human life when it's a human...that means it's first right to human life claims is when it becomes a...foetus. So...if it becomes a foetus by the END of the eighth week...and the eighth week is AFTER conception...
Wait...*Performs various experimenti*
...then that would mean that...*Uses abacus*
...HUMAN life does not begin at conception. Hahaha! How ironic! Because you just claimed that human life is widely regarded and known to begin at conception. Human life. HUMAN.
...and yet, it appears I have just prematurely aborted that little argument.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Great, you showed what conception means. Splendid. Everyone here (hopefully) knows what conception means.What you were supposed to do, I believe, was prove why human life BEGINS at conception, not what conception means. Since you can't do that (factually), I believe you can take a rest.
Good young one, now the lesson will be completely taught to you soon enough..Do you know what viable means? Didn't think so..
Let us continue our lesson with the definition of "viable.."
Does the fetus exist within "favorable" conditions within a "mother's" womb? ✅
Does that then mean that it's "capable of living" if it exists within these conditions? ✅
If something is capable of "living" despite what condition it is succumbed to, does that something then represent a "life"
It most certainly does. I'll be it might represent a simple/dependant "life", but a "life" none the less.
Or let me guess your response, because one is dependant upon another for "survival" that means they are not truly alive..right?
I guess I should go to the hospital and take all of those patients who are on respirators off of them. I won't be guilty of murder or anything, because they can't live without the respirators. I mean they're not really alive because they depend on other people to keep them alive. right Alpha? 😉
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You said nobody has to get pregnant if they don't want to, right?Citing contraceptions as a reason to not get pregnant, right?
I said contraceptions can fail, right?
Hence women sometimes getting pregnant if they don't want to, right? Right.
Not AWFULLY smart are you?
Very smart. But it doesn't take a "smart" person to understand the simplicity of the concept known as ABSTINENCE. I don't know too many "smart" people who get pregnant, when they don't have sex, do you?
Of course there are those people who are not very "smart." And for those people, I recommend "STERILIZATION." If this procedure is performed properly, one can screw around all they like, and not have to worry about becoming pregnant.
Which leads us up to yet another question..what do we do during issues involving rape and incest?
To be quite honest that's a tough one, however, I still don't understand how killing an unborn child somehow rectifies the act of rape. Care to explain to me how it does?
I mean, is the unborn child responsible for the act of rape Alpha? Come on now you're a pretty smart guy, I'm sure you can answer this question..😉
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It was, but you can never account for KMC's idiotic populace not being able to grasp simple premises.
Quite true. I hope you understand the "simple" meaning of viable now Alpha.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
However, I've seen you in other threads and I would like to quickly and peacefully get a little something out of the way first, because this thread has suffered enough.Your penchant for over-using the words "owned" and "fin" (ironically removing any effect or impact from them at all) notwithstanding, it's really not needed here Whob. If you have a case or point to make, I will gladly discuss it with you. No need for "owned" and "fin" and all that, is there? Surely you are above using such childish terms.
Good. Let's proceed.
Okay..I won't use "fin" or "finis" anymore when I've given some one a gentle ribbing..and a "simple" lesson in vocabulary..I'll just use "finichio."
Finichio
Abortion, a favourite topic among both sides, if there's any excuse to argue like school-children, it's abortion, why I'll never know, some primitive desire to let out aggression maybe? Liberals ALWAYS win, and conservatives never change thier opinion, it's an unstopable force coming at an immovable object..
Frankly, I am neither pro-life nor pro-choice, humans generaly suck, there's a three out of four chance i'd probably hate the bastard born, HOWEVER.. I do side with pro-life more then pro-choice. (Way more) because despite what may be said, pro-lifers tend to generaly be less pompus and snobby, (as all conservatives are in comparison to liberals) and that lowers my stress level which is always a plus..
Also i'm "pro-life" because i'm "communist", and unlike these neo-socialist teenage idiots who just follow the left-wing path like sheep to the slaughter, I actually think about things, and abortion is one of the largest contributers to the capitalist goverment's grand puba of power.
Immagine for a second that no woman would ever consider an abortion, nobody was selfish or desperate enough, people waited untill marriage to have sex, where would the economy go?
Condoms would deffinitely plummet in stocks..
So too would birth-control, the day after pill, etc.
And alot of these liberal doctors would not have an abortion clinic to fall back on if they can't become a REAL doctor.
Our goverment plants this immoral thoughts into our heads, to feed thier own hungery bellies for more power, power is in money, and as long as we countinualy are convinced "we're free! let's go drink ourselves to death and hump eachother!" the goverment is countinualy going to use you for thier own ends of acheiving greater control over you. There is no such thing as freedom, there is either deceitful control or honoust control. Frankly, I'd rather have the latter, as atleast then, there's more order and balance, and people in an honoust control setting tend to be less stupid and aggarvating..
Originally posted by Makedde
Abortion affects me, and those others who don't agree with it. We pay for it!!! Of course it affects us, we have to live with the knowledge that part of OUR hard earned cash goes toward ridding someone else's mistake. We are affected by it, every single day.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Good young one, now the lesson will be completely taught to you soon enough..Do you know what viable means? Didn't think so..Let us continue our lesson with the definition of "viable.."
Does the fetus exist within "favorable" conditions within a "mother's" womb? ✅
Does that then mean that it's "capable of living" if it exists within these conditions? ✅
If something is capable of "living" despite what condition it is succumbed to, does that something then represent a "life"
It most certainly does. I'll be it might represent a simple/dependant "life", but a "life" none the less.
Is it a human? No, nothing even remotely close.
Is that what you claimed it was at conception? Yes.
So you were quite clearly wrong as I blatantly proved. You said human life began at conception, I proved factually otherwise. Needn't go further.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
I guess I should go to the hospital and take all of those patients who are on respirators off of them. I won't be guilty of murder or anything, because they can't live without the respirators. I mean they're not really alive because they depend on other people to keep them alive. right Alpha? 😉
Obviously not if it goes against the wishes of those with the rights to decide that. The fact that the people on respirators are just vegetables with zero life is obvious though.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Very smart. But it doesn't take a "smart" person to understand the simplicity of the concept known as ABSTINENCE. I don't know too many "smart" people who get pregnant, when they don't have sex, do you?
What does this have to do with anything at all? What are you trying to prove?
You can get pregnant even when you take precautions not to. It's that simple in the world called Earth.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Of course there are those people who are not very "smart." And for those people, I recommend "STERILIZATION." If this procedure is performed properly, one can screw around all they like, and not have to worry about becoming pregnant.
Right, so...why are you replying to me showing that there are lots of ways not to become pregnant? Females who simply use contraception can still become pregnant through no fault of their own, through failed contraception. No need to dart and dance, it's a fact.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Which leads us up to yet another question..what do we do during issues involving rape and incest?
We let the woman choose seeing as "we" have no business involving ourselves. These are all simple answers, Whob.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
To be quite honest that's a tough one, however, I still don't understand how killing an unborn child somehow rectifies the act of rape. Care to explain to me how it does?
It's not tough at all. Woman decides she doesn't want to keep the offspring she was forced to bear by a rapist, she chooses abortions. Again, a simple answer. Can I give you an answer that makes you agree? No. That's the simple answer though.
None of that "She can give it up for adoption!" Yes, she could. She COULD. She chose not to. NONE of your business.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
I mean, is the unborn child responsible for the act of rape Alpha? Come on now you're a pretty smart guy, I'm sure you can answer this question..😉
Don't go all DiamondBullets on me, Whob.
"It's not the baby's fault!" Yeah? It's not the woman's fault either, so by that rationale she shouldn't have to deal with it.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Quite true. I hope you understand the "simple" meaning of viable now Alpha.
I understood it before.
You said human life began at conception and I factually proved otherwise. Undoubtedly, so there's no point in continuing to go over it.
You were arguing that HUMAN life began at conception, not "life" in general (which isn't provable anyway).
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Is it a human? No, nothing even remotely close.Is that what you claimed it was at conception? Yes.
So you were quite clearly wrong as I blatantly proved. You said human life began at conception, I proved factually otherwise. Needn't go further.
Correction..it is not a fully "developed" human...however, it is a human "life" none the less. Are you sure you know what viable means?
If something is viable, it is "alive"..duhh..😉
Don't believe me..just ask my friend..dictionary.com
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Obviously not if it goes against the wishes of those with the rights to decide that. The fact that the people on respirators are just vegetables with zero life is obvious though.
Clearly you have demonstrated that you have just as little knowledge of the medical field, as you do about English vocabulary.
Newsflash bud..not everyone who is attached to a respirator, is a "vegetable" as you have put it. Many people, who have various lung ailments and are not able to fully breathe on their own, still have other fully functional mental/physical capacities. This would hardly make them "vegetables", just dependant on someone with a bit of compassion to provide for them while they're unable to provide for themselves. Is that too much for them to ask for?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
What does this have to do with anything at all? What are you trying to prove?
If it has to be explained to you that abstinence and sterility can be used as 100 percent full proof contraceptives, then you're a lost cause my friend. BIO 101 Alpha..I'll send you an online application to an "accredited" university so that you may learn these basic concepts.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You can get pregnant even when you take precautions not to. It's that simple in the world called Earth.Right, so...why are you replying to me showing that there are lots of ways not to become pregnant? Females who simply use contraception can still become pregnant through no fault of their own, through failed contraception. No need to dart and dance, it's a fact.
No fault of their own? 😆
Unless someone is forced to have sexual intercourse with another, it is always their fault if they become pregnant.
Seriously bud...I think you need to hang it up on this one..
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
We let the woman choose seeing as "we" have no business involving ourselves. These are all simple answers, Whob.So a women's right to choice, overrides the right of the unborn child
It's not tough at all. Woman decides she doesn't want to keep the offspring she was forced to bear by a rapist, she chooses abortions. Again, a simple answer. Can I give you an answer that makes you agree? No. That's the simple answer though.
None of that "She can give it up for adoption!" Yes, she could. She COULD. She chose not to. NONE of your business.
We let the woman choose, because many societies are too foolish to realize that the choice is not up to her. Women aren't born with the inherent right to choose whether or not an individual lives or dies. Society gives them this option. Only a fool would think otherwise.
Obviously we have a difference of philosophical opinions, which won't change in the context of these debates. However, I truly hope life's circumstances never put you in a situation where your life is solely dependant upon another.
Finichio
whobdamandog a baby less than 3 months old has not developed ANY LIFE or conciounce{and conciounce defines life/existance/soul without it ur just a simlpe machine} but is merely an extension of the mother AND has nothing more than the individual life of the cells that make it up, in a sense it has no more significance than an undeveloped chicken egg. unless your going after individual cell rights in which case i have destroyed billions off the cells that consisted my body but died because i took a showers, scrathched my head/arms, fell on the floor face first etc.