Abortion

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes, you are clearly against abortion.

"I'm against it, I hate it, but I won't be anti-abortion. I'll respect the woman's choice."

IE: You must be ok with it to a degree that you have accepted it.

Hey, I hate abortion, it sickens me, personally, but I am pro choice. Although I hate the fact that women have abortions, it is not my place to force them to gestate against their will. I believe they should have the choice. You don't have to like, or even support abortion in order to be pro choice. Wake up to that. Abortion is not all black and white, as you seem to think.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Wait, you sit there saying abortion is murder, "I believe abortion IS murder, sorry", and you claim that I'M disregarding fact? That's a fact that you are disregarding. It is a fact, a proven fact.

The fact that abortion is not murder does not mean that someone cannot hold the belief that it is murder.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
After 20 weeks (about 5 months) the fetus already has nerve endings developed enough so that it can FEEL PAIN.....

The fetus starts to develop a cerebral cortex at what was thought to be around the 6th month. This means that the baby can feel pain. However, tests were performed on premature babies born at 22-23 weeks, and these tests revealed that the child can feel pain, so the cerebral cortex obviously develops alot sooner than first thought.
When a woman has a late term abortion, she is given a drug for pain, which passes to the unborn baby. The baby feels no pain-it would be like being paralysed. Think of it like that-no doctor would ever do an abortion, knowing the child can feel pain.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
However, regardless of my stance on choice, i am PERSONALLY against Abortion....
TO ME..in MY OPINION...it is only justifiable in terms of if the fetus threaten's the mother's life OR if the woman was RAPED....
if the woman was RAPED then she did NOT have the ability TO MAKE ANY CHOICE in the matter...sexual or matriarical

I agree, I share the same views as you. Many pro choicers are pro life for themselves, and that is fine. Many pro choicers are also against elective third trimester abortions-this does certainly not mean they are actually pro life, as AC would tell us.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
"we eat steak..is that murder?"---STFU man......COWS are not human beings. They are not HUMAN FETUSES.....how ignorant do you have to be to compare a CHILD TO STEAK ????????

I know horses, cats, and dogs that are far more intelligent than any fetus. The argument of "it's not a human, so it's okay to be cruel to it" is 100% bullshit. Many animals are way more self aware than are fetuses. That said, I do eat meat, but the point is that anyone who thinks it's acceptable to kill cows, but not fetuses (cows, if you hadn't noticed, also have ears and nerve endings) has clearly never had a pet dog or cat.

The argument about fetuses being able to "hear their mother's voice" is nothing more than a sensationalist appeal to people's emotions. Almost all land animals are capable of sensing sound in some way... It wouldn't be such a big deal if we were told that fetuses have no idea that it IS their mother, nor can they understand what she is saying. Being self-aware is the capability to recognize oneself as an individual, not just react to stimuli like an ant. Ants feel pain and respond to it, yet they do so purely on instinct, and it's the same with a 20-week old fetus.

Originally posted by PrincessMary
Hey, I hate abortion, it sickens me, personally, but I am pro choice. Although I hate the fact that women have abortions, it is not my place to force them to gestate against their will. I believe they should have the choice. You don't have to like, or even support abortion in order to be pro choice. Wake up to that. Abortion is not all black and white, as you seem to think.

Nope..Mary if you read my other posts you would have ALREADY seen that i already said I would NEVER force my opinion of a woman.

I would NEVER force a woman to give birth if she didnt want 2.

WHY?

Because its not my body, my baby, or my choice.

Am I against Abortion? Yes...

Do I think its murder? In many ways yes

But do I think my opinion matters so much that every woman has to follow it ? No......

Abortion is killing....no matter what. You can't deny that.

Am I bias? yes.....

I am against Abortion the same way I am against the Death Penalty.

To me...it seems..Abortion is killing for convience. Killing simply because you don't want to deal with what you've sown.

Sorry that is my opinion, and it's not changing.

However just because I feel this way doesn't mean I would VOTE to ban abortion. I'm not extremist.

I honestly think that Abortion is the most COMPLICATED of ALL issues....so NO I am not making this a black or white issue.

You guys are picking between what's more important:

Life or Choice.....

To ME...BOTH are the most PRECIOUS things that exist...and for me to CHOOSE ONE over the OTHER is IMPOSSIBLE......

That is why despite my opinion, I wouldn't force a woman to do something she did not want to do.

PLEASE get that straight.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
...NEVER...NEVER MAKE...CLEARLY...DIFFERENTLY...ONE...BLACK AND WHITE...YOU...INSULTS...MILLION TIMES...PERSONALLY...NO REASON...FORCE...
WAKE UP

ive come up with a new game to put use to your ridiculously wordy yet useless grandstanding episodes and pontless self gratifying diatribes. just eliminate all words except for your CAPITALIZED!!!!!11111 words. hey...its at least amusing, which gives your posts some purpose imho.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen

[B]Life or Choice.....

To ME...BOTH are the most PRECIOUS things that exist...and for me to CHOOSE ONE over the OTHER is IMPOSSIBLE......

That is why despite my opinion, I wouldn't force a woman to do something she did not want to do.

PLEASE get that straight. [/B]

Holy mother of stupid.....

Originally posted by PrincessMary
The fact that abortion is not murder does not mean that someone cannot hold the belief that it is murder.

No, but doesn't it strike you a incredibly idiotic to do so?

"I know I am wrong, factually without debate, but I'll believe otherwise."

Yes, it is, and those who do it render themselves irrelevant and pointless to this debate. Why? Because it stops the thread from progressing. If you are debating from a known and factually incorrect standpoint, you're dumb.

-AC

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Am I against Abortion? Yes...

Do I think its murder? In many ways yes

But do I think my opinion matters so much that every woman has to follow it ? No.....

It's not murder though, fact. That is as undeniable as it being killing. You say you want to debate with respect, but how can you claim respect when you are sitting there stupidly ignoring a blatant fact?

One or the other.

-AC

It is not recognized as Murder by LAW's standards.

But in my opinion "killing for convienence" is murder.

Again nothing you say will change my personal stance on this. Does this mean I think my personal stance is fact? No.

ne ways im done here.

You and PVS debate like 14 year olds, i have better things to do then waste ne more time here.

but how can you claim respect when you are sitting there stupidly ignoring a blatant fact?

Oh, and on more thing: According to Forum Rules you must give ALL fellow debators respect, REGARDLESS of whether or not you think thier points are invalid, stupid, etc.

I deserve Respect REGARDLESS of what your opinion about my argument is, you guys have violated Forum Rules by doing so.

I am not in any wrong here. Later 😉

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
It is not recognized as Murder by LAW's standards.

Exactly. Murder is a legal term, we've been over this, it's a fact.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
But in my opinion "killing for convienence" is murder.

Well you're wrong then. That's just immoral killing, it isn't murder. Murder is a very specific crime and abortion isn't applicable. You are factually, undeniably wrong.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Again nothing you say will change my personal stance on this. Does this mean I think my personal stance is fact? No.

ne ways im done here.

You and PVS debate like 14 year olds, i have better things to do then waste ne more time here.

We're not the ones sitting here saying "I think killing for convenience is murder, so it is." That's so juvenile it defies wording.

You don't deserve a respectful debate because you're not debating in a respectful way. You are being childish and immature by ignoring a fact.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I am not in any wrong here. Later 😉

You are, and facts say so. You're sticking your fingers in your ears and going "Lalalalalalala."

Don't say "Later", you know you won't leave.

-AC

What if some dude falls into a coma and his family takes him off life support? How is that not killing for convenience? Maybe the medical bills are too high or they don't like watching the guy suffer, so it would be more convenience to end his life.

I don't care one way or the other, but I was just wondering what you guys thought about that in relation.

p.s. I forgot...do liberals or republicans go for or against assisted suicide? Or is that something they are allowed to make up their own mind about...I forgot.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You and PVS debate like 14 year olds, i have better things to do then waste ne more time here.

how ironic dat u wud type like dis and then go on 2 tell me debate like a 14 yr old. lolololzzzroflzzz111

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
PROVE WHAT?

I already got the information from Doctors' clarifications themselves.

After 20 weeks (about 5 months) the fetus already has nerve endings developed enough so that it can FEEL PAIN.....

What are you, not reading properly, or are you just not aware of how abortion works.

Abortions are done WAY before 5 months. 3rd month is when the abortions are usually performed, and thats around 10 weeks...less than.

So your argument is pointless.

100% yes.

Alright, Alright. I'm wrong your right.

I'm stupid, your all genuises !

Happy ? 🙄

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Alright, Alright. I'm wrong your right.

I'm stupid, your all genuises !

Happy ? 🙄

No, but it's true regardless.

😆 😆 😆

"I'm done here, later."

Famous not-so-last words by Lord Urizen there. You're welcome in this thread and this forum as much as anybody is, I'm not trying to get rid of you.

What you have to understand is that facts are facts. If you WON'T accept them, despite them being true, then you are hindering this thread and it makes it harder for anyone here who actually wants to progress with the thread. If, of course, there is anything left to discuss.

-AC