Abortion

Originally posted by autumn dreams
A question: What, if anything, do your Governments pay women for having a child? Over here it is $3000 per child, but on the 1st of July, that ammount will rise to $4000.

The Government is using money as a way of bribing women to chose to have children-but they do nothing to provent abortion.

Now, on a television documentary the other night, a 14 year old girl told of how she heard about the money the Government was offering, and got herself pregnant. She intended to spend the money on herself. She got a huge shock when the baby arrived and she realised how expensive they are.

Do you think the Government actually encourages teenage pregnancy by doing this? The money is deposited into the mothers bank account-they do not receive vouchers or anything unless they ask, and many women are having children and spending the money on a boob job or a flashy car, then end up with next to no money to support their child.

On one hand, the money is good idea-$3000 would be a huge help if used correctly, for what it should be used for-the baby.
But on the other hand, the Government is creating a generation of 13-14 year old single parents who spread their legs out of greed.

Any thoughts? 😕

in my opinion its just anohter way to make it easier for women to not care as much about the outcome of what they decide, and it makes it easier for men to bribe the girls into fuking them.

"Baby, i dont wanna use no damn condom, it cramps my style. dont worry, if you get pregnant than we can either have an abortion, or you can get $3,000 bucks. There's nothing to worry about."

Originally posted by DarkC
To be honest, I don't really see how having a single woman politely refusing an offer of assistance would damage their ego and reputation.

They would never do it singularly, it'd be far too time consuming.

Originally posted by DarkC
Well, there's government for you. They tend to be insecure at times, and while getting an official to lay out her options for her may seem patronising, it's definitely not a hostile gesture. I wouldn't trust them to completely leave the doctors to inform their patients all the time.

You're still a bit wet behind the ears with regards to governments. Unless Canada have some loving government that cares and listens. I say this because I know the Bush and Blair administrations aren't like that.

Originally posted by DarkC
I didn't say that help was wanted all the time. There are some who accept and some who don't. But it shouldn't hurt to check once. Who knows, they might need it after all.

Then leave them to ask for it. There's no need to stick your nose in.

Originally posted by DarkC
If they do want to offer something that would help the individual, I don't find it to be an unreasonable motive.

It's never going to be individual though.

Originally posted by .😖pace Opera:.
i thought you said that it was none of our business...?

It isn't, and none of what you quoted implies otherwise.

-AC

This thread is still going on?

Yeah. Check back in about 8,000 more replies. We'll still be at the same nerve-wracking standstill.

There's a reason.

Urizen keeps insisting that he must explain his point to anyone and everyone, down to the smallest detail, when we already get it.

He's the Peter Jackson of KMC.

-AC

http://albinoblacksheep.com/flash/fetus

Just a random video, wich I thought was pretty sad...

Did anyone else find that movie funny?

😆

Their concept of development is so off its hilarious.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There's a reason.

Urizen keeps insisting that he must explain his point to anyone and everyone, down to the smallest detail, when we already get it.

He's the Peter Jackson of KMC.

-AC

Wrong. The only reason I'm even here is because my stance in constantly challenged. If my stance is continously challenged, debated, critizised, watever....i will feel compelled to defend it.

That is all 😉

heh, the same reason AC's here too. ✅ 🙄

Originally posted by D4th R3v4n
http://albinoblacksheep.com/flash/fetus

Just a random video, wich I thought was pretty sad...

Oh my...

I do not think that pro-lifers can impose their propaganda any worse than that video. It just about sums up every little ridiculous detail they have about what a foetus/fetus/unborn child (whatever) must feel/think. How unrealistic it is.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Alcohol is much widely used and distributed, it's readily available. As are cigarettes.

That's besides the point anyway.

And your point is? I am not defending alchohol or cigerettes, or any drug for that matter. But you brought up a really good point about how harmful Alcohol is, and you are only proving my point further of how harmful drugs can potentially be.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Let them decide that, not you.

In terms of Abortion, I do not recall claiming the desire to infringe on a woman's choice.

In terms of illegal drug use, i still do not recall claiming the desire to infringe on the person's choice.

I simply think drug taking is more immoral than having an abortion.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, it's nothing like that because you're not putting anybody but yourself in danger. Making others sad is totally different.

Making others sad?🤨

When you screw up your own mind you already become a dangerous person. Therefore you are danger to other people ! What part of that don't you understand?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Happy joy.

That deserves a big:

🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The only confusion I have with you is your ridiculous point of view. Other than that, I grasp everything you've said, because I'm the one who's replying to you clearly.

My Rediculous point of view...and then you wondor why I keep defending it....what do you find so rediculous about it, I'd like to know?

I somehow doubt you even understand my point of view, but let's see...what is my point of view AC?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Your opinions on abortion being immoral are very debateable. The reason I think it's stupid to use abortion as birth control is because abortion is under enough of a microscope as it is, and there's people in world power who would ban it as a result of their religion. We needn't make things worse by frivolously using it. That said, it will happen.

1)Debateable you say?...as are your opinions of absolutivity that abortion lacks morality period. Well..this IS a DEBATE...so i dont see what the problem is exactly. If you wish to debate against my opinion, I'd be happy to defend it once again..and again...and for as long as you keep critisizing it. 😉

2) I am going to stop debating with you about what you said in regards to women who have continous and casual abortions, because I find that I cannot admire a woman who does such things to that extant. You have every right to think that regardless, so there will be no more criticism on my part.

3) People who ban things for thier religious purposes are dangerous in my opinion. I dislike Ultra Conservatives and Traditionalists. But I think they are equally as dangerous as Extremist Liberals.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So you are agreeing that you wouldn't blame alcohol for someone drunk driving?

1) Yes. I would not blame the Alcohol.. But I would not approve of the Drunk Driving. Drunk Driving is STILL an immoral act itself.

2) As for Abortion....I would not blame the TOOLS used in Abortion. They are inanimate objects. Abortion itself is an ACTION...therefore I consider it immoral, the same way I consider drunk driving immoral.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So you're against abortion as a whole, as an act...but you don't make moves to stop it...and you believe there are some cases when it's necessary...

Riiiiiight.

-AC

What is the actual problem in your understanding? Is your mind that small, or that black/white in mentality that you could not comprehend such a stance?

And still...let me correct you....

1) I am personally against Abortion. I feel it is an immoral act, yes. Not due to religious ideals or any other influences. It goes against my own moral of what is right and wrong.

2) No I do not make moves to stop it. I will never have to deal with the issue myself. I am not a woman, i will never be pregnant, and i don't even plan to have my own children. WHY should I make moves to stop it?🤨

3) In cases where the foetus threatens the mother's life, an Abortion is necessary. Yes.

Here's the idea here: if you think something is truly wrong, you should be advocating for punishment.

EXAMPLE: If I personally believe killing people is wrong, I in turn believe that it should be punished. If I think that stealing is wrong, it should be punished. Morals are widely varying, but in some cases, the general populace agrees that it is wrong/right.

The point of this debate is to see if people think that abortion should be outlawed i.e. it is wrong, therefore punishable. Once that is found, we argue for or against abortion.

Get it yet?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Wrong. The only reason I'm even here is because my stance in constantly challenged. If my stance is continously challenged, debated, critizised, watever....i will feel compelled to defend it.

That is all 😉

Originally posted by DarkC
As said, your "stance" has clearly been discussed and resolved before, and yet you still insist on reaching down and dragging it up for further inspection?

Nope. Omega does, Crazylover does, PVS does, even AC does somtimes. 😉

They still have a problem with my stance, label me a hypocrit and such, and as long as they continue to do so, i will continue to defend my position.

What is the problem you see?

Originally posted by crazylozer
Here's the idea here: if you think something is truly wrong, you should be advocating for punishment.

WRONG👇

1) Who are you to tell me i should do anything?

2) So if a Conservative Christian thinks homosexuality is wrong/immoral, that means they should automatically VOTE to BAN gay marriage, and fight gay civil rights?

3) I am not arguing in terms of black and white like you'd like me to, and I will not do so anytime soon. So why bother trying to convince me to do so?🤨

Originally posted by crazylozer
EXAMPLE: If I personally believe killing people is wrong, I in turn believe that it should be punished. If I think that stealing is wrong, it should be punished. Morals are widely varying, but in some cases, the general populace agrees that it is wrong/right.

1)Punished......if you think being gay is wrong, would you punish a gay person for it?

2) And what kind of punishment do you think fits a murderer? Death Penalty? I am against that sorry. 😉

Originally posted by crazylozer
The point of this debate is to see if people think that abortion should be outlawed i.e. it is wrong, therefore punishable. Once that is found, we argue for or against abortion.

Get it yet?

WRONG👇

The point of this debate, BY the thread starter was to state whether or not you were

1) Pro Life

2) Pro Choice

3) Pro Abortion

I am Pro-Choice, I have stated why a million times already, yet you guys insist on challenging my stance.

Well keep it up, i am only happy to continously defend it. 😉

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Nope. Omega does, Crazylover does, PVS does, even AC does somtimes. 😉

They still have a problem with my stance, label me a hypocrit and such, and as long as they continue to do so, i will continue to defend my position.

What is the problem you see?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen

1)Punished......if you think being gay is wrong, would you punish a gay person for it?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen

2) And what kind of punishment do you think fits a murderer? Death Penalty? I am against that sorry. 😉

Originally posted by Lord Urizen

The [b]point of this debate, BY the thread starter was to state whether or not you were

1) Pro Life

2) Pro Choice

3) Pro Abortion

[/B]

After 385 pages, one would hope that people might be delving a bit deeper into this issue. Don't you think so?

Originally posted by LighterFluid
Yes, but I don't think it's wrong.

But my question is...if you think something is WRONG that has nothing to do with you...that affects you in no way...then what right to you have to force a change upon it?

Originally posted by LighterFluid
Who says that every punishment has to be an eye for an eye? I don't think that anybody's suggested that we invent a time machine and travel back in time and abort women before they can grow up and have an abortion. I don't believe that abortions should be punished, but a possible punishment from your point of view could be...jail time...possibly? It's not up to me to determine punishments based on your system of values. The point is that if you believe something is truly wrong, you should try to change it. If everyone took the same attitude towards social change that you did, North Americans would still be abusing black and Chinese people.

I understand what you mean, but it doesn't change my point of view. I do beleive Abortion is wrong, but i also beleive taking away Choice is wrong. That is why i am pro choice, and no pro life.

You cannot TRULY compare Abortion to things like murder or rape, which are indefinately wrong. Abortion is only wrong in my opinion....does that mean i have to go turning my opinion into law?

I assume that you think its reasonable that Ultra Conservatives fight to ban gay marriage, and that some of them even fight to ban gay sex in general.

Originally posted by LighterFluid
After 385 pages, one would hope that people might be delving a bit deeper into this issue. Don't you think so?

It depends what you mean by "delving a bit deeper"

I feel I explained my stance as extensive as i possibly could.

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
Oh my...

I do not think that pro-lifers can impose their propaganda any worse than that video. It just about sums up every little ridiculous detail they have about what a foetus/fetus/unborn child (whatever) must feel/think. How unrealistic it is.

Pro lifers believe a fetus feels pain as early as 12 weeks, but this is impossible, because the fetus has not yet delevoped a cerebral cortex. It was thought for a long time by doctors/scientists that the cerebral cortex only becomes fuctional after a period of 24-26 weeks, or around 6 months. This is not so, as studies on premature babies, born as early as 22 weeks, show that these infants respond to pain, which indicates that the cerebral cortex develops alot earlier than first thought. It is not known if abortion doctors used any pain killers on the fetus before performing an abortion up to 24 weeks-if not, the child would likely have felt pain. I do believe that all mothers are given a pain relieving drug which passes to the baby, before they undergo an abortion.