Thank you Syren, for the lovely compliment. (Ignorami! I've never seen someone use the correct plural form before! Oh sweet, sweet Christ Chex, I've got a crush. 😍 )
Star22: A group of living cells begins at conception. A group of living cells, just like how plants are groups of living cells. Do they know they exist? Do they feel? No, they don't have a brain or nervous system. It's a group of living cells. It really doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, it's fact. I'd consider a fetus human when it is at the stage where all of it's organs are formed. Forget the heartbeat, it's only a pump. If it has a fully functioning brain, and is at the point where it can nutritionally sustain itself without the Umbilical chord from the mother, it is a human child. Until then, it's a group of living cells.
Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Thank you Syren, for the lovely compliment. (Ignorami! I've never seen someone use the correct plural form before! Oh sweet, sweet Christ Chex, I've got a crush. 😍 )Star22: A group of living cells begins at conception. A group of living cells, just like how plants are groups of living cells. Do they know they exist? Do they feel? No, they don't have a brain or nervous system. It's a group of living cells. It really doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, it's fact. I'd consider a fetus human when it is at the stage where all of it's organs are formed. Forget the heartbeat, it's only a pump. If it has a fully functioning brain, and is at the point where it can nutritionally sustain itself without the Umbilical chord from the mother, it is a human child. Until then, it's a group of living cells.
STAR: I feel the same way you do. 🙂
cell (sl)
n.
The smallest structural unit of an organism that is capable of independent functioning, consisting of one or more nuclei, cytoplasm, and various organelles, all surrounded by a semipermeable cell membrane.
fe·tus·es or chiefly British foe·tus·es or foe·ti /'fEt-"I/
: an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind; specifically : a developing human from usually three months after conception to birth —compare EMBRYO
em·bry·os
1 archaic : a vertebrate at any stage of development prior to birth or hatching
2 : an animal in the early stages of growth and differentiation that are characterized by cleavage, the laying down of fundamental tissues, and the formation of primitive organs and organ systems; especially : the developing human individual from the time of implantation to the end of the eighth week after conception —compare
Rather you think it is life or not, it is the beginning of life. Most woman with in 4-7 weeks KNOW they are pregnant, why do they know? Things in their body change to show signs of LIFE beginning in them.
I give you that. It is life. Living cells are life. Plants are life. Do you feel that it is morally wrong to pick a flower? I'm sure you don't. Therefore, pulling a group of cells out of an already developed human is not murder.
Now, getting an abortion too late is different. If the baby is already fully formed, it's too late. The person ****ed up by not making the choice sooner.
Originally posted by yerssot
that life is being killed? you haven't followed the thread closely I think, since there was some discussion about IF a foetus is a person/alife/etc. and at WHAT stage...
Hello, living tissue that has its own DNA is a being, and therefore you are killing it.... remember biology when the RNA DNA split and interchange to create its own? Technically if you were dealing on a biology level that is where a new life begins, when it has its own independent DNA code, which is like a nano second after sex.
Originally posted by Fiery Eyes1: it does matter when they have the abortion because at 6 weeks its a ball of cells, yet at 8 months it is practically my baby. So in my opinion, unless the child is severely deformed or the mothers life is endangered, abortions should take place well before this.
Shldn't matter when they have the abortion, life is life, murder is murder. And abortion is murder.
(Curtsies to Arachnoidfreak and Syren)
Evy_O> Cool. I find the definition of “Living” interesting, not only in the context of this discussion – but also regarding the search of extraterristial life of course. 🙂
Myth> Ah, but opposed to YOU, I have NEVER stuck words such as “moral” and “wrong”/”right” into this discussion.
That’s your department. And by doing so, you implicitly say EXACTLY what you explicitly said in your following post.
You need to define KILLING. And “alive”, and if you’ve paid any attention to Evy_O’s posts, you’ll realize that a foetus is NOT autonomous, it can not survive without the woman’s body – the pregnant woman that is. As soon as birth has taken place, OTHER people can – in theory – care for the child. But remove it from the pregnant woman prior to that… And it’ll die in a few moments.
THAT is why I do not view abortion as killing, and hence morally wrong.
But let me ask you this: Do you also view INDIRECT killing as morally wrong?
“You should not have sex if you are not willing to except the responsibilities that come with it.”
Do you REALLY think people can STOP having sex? It’s in our NATURE! Abstaining from sex will make people sick and deranged.
I’d rather have a few abortions than thousands or millions of people running around like lunatics, trying to prevent people from having sex!
Adam_Poe> Yeah, it’s remarkable that the anti-abortionists this far have failed utterly to reply to your post. Make you think, doesn’t it… ?
RaventheOnly> Abstaining from saying “You were an unwanted child” is NOT lying. It’s abstaining from telling someone something which will potentially hurt their feelings and does not change ANYTHING anyways.
And I was not trying to insult you. Why do you think that?
“Who is anyone to say their life will be miserable?” Who is anyone to say that their life will be great? Especially when this life may ruin the life of others (teenagers too young to be ready for the responsibility for example)?
” Most mothers, at least the ones with actual love would gladly sacrifice thier life for the child in thier womb if it had a chance at life.”
Who gave you that stupid idea?
” I've seen a mother take pain and anguish just for thier children to feel none..... and read about a women lift large objects to save children... men the same.... and if you talk to any parent ... anywhere... 99.9999% would gladly sacrifice thier life for thier child.”
So because YOU have seen and READ and talked to some women, it’s now 99,9999%? I’m sorry to break this to you, but I doubt you’ve talked to 99,9999% of all women on the planet.
Anti-abortionists seem to forget, that we are – after all – just humans. When a child is born there is nothing absolutely certain – but in some circumstances we may make an educated guess. IF the parents do not WANT the child – what start is that to give a new human? Why not let the couple wait until they’re older, more mature, perhaps even with other partners?
Our way of life – our use of ressources – indirectly kills people every day. 100.000 iraqis have died since the invasion of Iraq.
Why is their lives not worth anything?
Why is this sperm-meets-egg so important to anti-abortionists? It’s just a thing that happens… I mean, what’ll be next? Must women save their period-blood and men their semen because THAT, too, is potentially life??? Humans have used abortion and infanticide since the dawn of time, if the tribe couldn’t feed another mouth… Out of convinience some extremists would say – no, say I, to live THEIR lives…
FE> I’m for starters trying to stress that I am not attacking YOU personally. I disagree strongly – however – with your views, but as the saying goes ”I’ll to my death defend your right to have them.” (Or something like that).
Would you do the same for me and my views?
Yressot> ” I gotta agree with TO...You couldn't look like a bigger ass if you were attached to the backside of Oprah before her diet”
🤣
FE> “The smallest structural unit of an organism that is capable of independent functioning”
INDEPENDENT functioning.
A foetus/embryo does NOT function independent of the woman. So there goes THAT argument.
Would you allow a woman to abort a severely handicapped foetus? One that would be in pain and require special care from cradle to grave?
Arachnoidfreak> Abortions late in the pregnancy are VERY rare (at least here in DK). And not automatically legal either. Here in DK I think they’re only allowed if there’s a risk to the mothers life.
When you find out that you’re pregnant – and most girls/women should take a test if they miss a period and have had sex – you make the decision. But, heck, what do I know about sex-ed in the US?
guys wanna hear something really ****ed up, here in china, woman HATE to have girl babies, so the doctors, never tells the parents whats gonna be a boy or a girl, cuz if the doctors tells them it's a girl, the parents will abort her 😂
and here in china i think it's like in the first 3 or 4 months only when ure allowed to abort 🙂 china's weird man!!! tho' it does have it's good things
Originally posted by naybean
1: it does matter when they have the abortion because at 6 weeks its a ball of cells, yet at 8 months it is practically my baby. So in my opinion, unless the child is severely deformed or the mothers life is endangered, abortions should take place well before this.
2. Murder is murder, but whether or not abortion is a whole another category. How could you compare a person who shot someone and a woman who was raped and had an abortion?
The reason I could compare the 2 would be, I think it's murder and to me murder is murder. I understand that rape is horrible and I can't even imagine what all a woman must go through being raped, but killing an inncocent baby is wrong. I don't see how killing a baby a person can justify it by saying I was raped. What did the baby do to them? Just my feelings on the topic.
OMEGA: Would you allow a woman to abort a severely handicapped foetus? One that would be in pain and require special care from cradle to grave?
you do have a right to your opinion, we all do. When Have I said you didn't? I may not agree w/it, but I don't belittle you for having your own opinion and if I have i'm sorry cuz I sure have not meant to at all. Having are opinions is one thing, killing is another. NO, I wouldn't allow anyone to abort a baby, period. I had an aunt that had umm I can't remember the name of it but all she could move were her toes and her mouth to eat of course. Anyways, she learned to write w/her toes, paint w/her toes, mold clay ect. I have one of her paintings hanging in my kitchen and she's won awards with her paintings. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a tough life at times, but there are good times also. Just like our life, it's NOT all a bed of roses, we have tough times also some worse than others.
I'm sorry to put this very blunt and I wanna apolegise now already for hurting peoples (and those include yours too FE of course) feelings but I just HAVE to say this:
Spoiler:
If I had the power to wish someone got raped, I would use it to get you raped FE; not to destroy your life mind you! but so you can first hand feel how it is to get raped and what your burden is... and that you can feel the shame of being raped anytime you look at your expanding tummy where the product of a vile crime is growing inside of you!
I find it simply unacceptable that you say it can't be justified when rape is one of the most horrible things that someone can do!!
Again, I want to apolegise for any hurt feelings made by this post, but I felt this way was the only way to show the pain and depression that a rape can give
Originally posted by yerssot
I'm sorry to put this very blunt and I wanna apolegise now already for hurting peoples (and those include yours too FE of course) feelings but I just HAVE to say this:Spoiler:
If I had the power to wish someone got raped, I would use it to get you raped FE; not to destroy your life mind you! but so you can first hand feel how it is to get raped and what your burden is... and that you can feel the shame of being raped anytime you look at your expanding tummy where the product of a vile crime is growing inside of you!
I find it simply unacceptable that you say it can't be justified when rape is one of the most horrible things that someone can do!!Again, I want to apolegise for any hurt feelings made by this post, but I felt this way was the only way to show the pain and depression that a rape can give
I already said it was HORRIBLE and to wish that on anyone makes you just as horrible. Talk about being a bigot!! We all have our opinions, does NOT make yours right!!! We all think we are right. I do think murder is murder and you wishing it on me does not change my feelings, did you think it would?? and if not, then why say it? 😉 What exactly did YOU think you would gain by saying that? What do you kind of person do you think that makes you?