read ireland has the highest percentage of teenage pregnancy in europe. what does that tell you?it tells me since Ireland is a catholic country, the church have done a good job of NOT PROMOTING BIRTH CONTROL in the likes of condoms and pills. Sounds harsh but thats how I see it. Nothing wrong with the Irish people cause they are one of the kindest people I ever met, the church is whats wrong.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Since abortion services became legal in the United States, the number of procedures performed each year continues to decline. So much for your theory. 🙄
Thats because at the same time, education is being increased as well (should be even more so). Even if it doesn't reduce abortions, it should be known as crime because it is morally wrong. Abortion should be illegal, and anybody caught doing it knowing that it is illegal, should be punished.
pr1983 - Yes, the smilie did mean it was a joke. Why would I hate the Irish? I'm part Irish, although I have no real connection to them. Also, as I stated before, how can living start at a single moment from the gradual growth of adding one cell at a time? The stages have no single instant that would change from not life to life and there is no such thing as "between life."
From Women's Issues @about.com - this may help some people decide?
Pro-Choice: If you are pro-choice you believe that women should be given access to abortions. You believe that it is up to the woman to make that choice and that the government should have no interference (except maybe in the instance of age.) You may believe that a woman should only get an abortion up until viability (the ability for the fetus to live on its own if it were delivered) or you may feel that a woman can choose to have an abortion later in her pregnancy.
Pro-Life: If you are pro-life you believe that from the moment of conception, the embryo or fetus is alive; that this life imposes on us a moral obligation to preserve it; and that abortion is tantamount to murder
Originally posted by Mythsorry i thought u were pro life.... i thought it was all about the child not whether the mother should be punnished or not. For someone who's pro life i would have thought that reducing the number of abortions would be most important.
Even if it doesn't reduce abortions, it should be known as crime because it is morally wrong. Abortion should be illegal, and anybody caught doing it knowing that it is illegal, should be punished.
if people want an abortion so badly they are prepared to risk their own lives, doesnt that say something. i dont think we can consider someone who's been raped and then has an abortion a criminal, but a victim. When I was in school i watched a video bout abortion and there was this one lady who was against abortions. She was raped and then had an abortion, but because she felt what she was doing was murder she had no anaesthetic or pain killers. It changed my views on abortion because i felt if it was that important to that woman even though she felt it was murder i could never understand or make the choice for her. I can understand why people dont like abortion, but to take away the choice from women like that is far worse in my opinion.
FE> I can see other points of view. I accept they exist, and – as opposed to you, as you have said yourself – I’ll to “my death defend your right to have them”. That does not mean I accept them, hence the reason we discuss views here.
You with me so far?
No you did not answer the question “God has murdered live babies – he killed all the first-borns in Egypt. Is that okay?”
Your reply :” No, I don't agree w/killing innocent people, I don't understand everything in the OT, I do know that we are under GRACE now.”
Are you saying that it is NOT okay for God to murder babies?
You see, you talk about killing innocent people. I ask about babies.
”THE Point is, she didn't abort her, and she turned out great, despite the fact that her mother could have aborted but DID NOT, she chose to give her up for adoption.”
HOW is that good for the mother?
“i think you just like to accuse.” As opposed to YOU, of course, who accuse women who have abortions of murder… Riiiight!
“I don't think anyone shld make a profit out of killing an innocent baby.” Chanting again, are we? An unborn human is NOT a baby – can’t you READ? And since an abortion is not legally considered a murder, you have as much right to accuse women of murder, as I have of accusing you of fascism.
Myth>“To me, abortion already is a crime (morally, although not legally)
Putting a ban wouldn't eliminate abortion, although it would drastically reduce it.
Therefore, there would be less crime.”
How would making abortions ILLEGAL result in ”less crime”? Now, when it is not illegal abortions do not count AS crimes. MAKE it illegal, and unfortunate women and couples will turn to back-alleys and foreign countries. Which would result in a RISE “in crime.”
All> What’s it called in legal terms, when one person wrongfully accuses someone else of something? Slander? My legal-English isn’t that good…
Ms Hyde> Ah, see the BIG difference. Pro-choice people do not want to press their views on others. Leave the decision up to the individual. Anti-abortionists want to force THEIR views down the throat of EVERY woman on the planet.
What’s it called in legal terms, when one person wrongfully accuses someone else of something? Slander?
yes omega slander is the correct term.
as for making abortions illegal, it doesnt work, i live in a country where it is illegal, and its f*cked up. any girl who wants to get an abortion that can afford it goes to england to get it done. i'm still confused though as to why people believe that a woman can be told what to do in regards to her body. it should be her choice and hers alone.
"If you are pro-life you believe that from the moment of conception, the embryo or fetus is alive; that this life imposes on us a moral obligation to preserve it; and that abortion is tantamount to murder"
Isn't this fact vs belief though? It is fact that embryo is not a baby or a life. Just coz they believe it isn't doesn't mean it is.
-AC
I haven't bothered reading through all 52 pages of this discussion because I don't see any point in this discussion. How can there be any other choice except pro-choice?
Isn't it ironic that it is called pro-life, when if you force a woman (and a man) to have a baby you f**k three people's lives in the process?
Any human being always have a choice and always ahould be allowed to exercise that choice. Taking people's freedom away to choose is just gonna take us back to the Dark Ages.
That site actually goes onto say: So how does someone become pro-life or pro-choice? It actually depends on a variety of factors. Religion has a huge part to play in these groups. Some religions are very specific and have strict policies, others are more lenient. Politics also plays a large role. And then in other instances women are raised to feel a certain way about abortion because of their family and friends. And of course some women are thrust into a decision because of their own unplanned pregnancy. No matter what your stance... it's a very controversial choice.
Omega>> Definitely. One side seems to need more (time, energy, books) to justify than the other. Or maybe having a choice makes it (not so) simple 😛
Originally posted by Dreampanther
I haven't bothered reading through all 52 pages of this discussion because I don't see any point in this discussion. How can there be any other choice except pro-choice?Isn't it ironic that it is called pro-life, when if you force a woman (and a man) to have a baby you f**k three people's lives in the process?
Any human being always have a choice and always ahould be allowed to exercise that choice. Taking people's freedom away to choose is just gonna take us back to the Dark Ages.
That is actually a damn good point. Well detailed too. clapping
Omega: lol since when are babies and people not the same thing? Are you with me so far?
😛 I have answered you, you just don't read correctly. i'm guessing, i have no idea, the way I answer alot of things is by stories, explaining why i feel or think a certain way, and i'm guessing you don't catch that, sorry
I've never ever said, I understood ALL of Gods ways, never, no way to understand everything. I do know, that Gods, is giving that exact same warning NOW, will people heed to his warnings?? and the book of revelations tells how it will end. Gods wrath will come upon the earth, we all have the choice now to choose him. 🙂
Just cuz YOU don't thk it's life, doesn't mean it's so. So, you saying "can't you read", just cuz I don't agree w/you, doesn't mean I haven't heard you. I simply don't believe that, life begins in stages, w/o that stage, there would never be life, so that STAGE of life is necessary, therefore, makes it life.
"So technically every time you bust a nut your killing thousands of babies?"
Exactly. Abortion is stopping cells from becoming a baby, fact. Sperm is what makes those cells be there anyway so if "Not giving the cells a chance" is your arguement, then you try going to every guy and saying "Excuse me, stop jerking off. That sperm could create a baby." Some of them may be dumb enough to listen but many guys, including me, would greet you with a booming, room-shaking gut laugh.
Fiery Eyes, you are confusing the term "alive" with "life". Cells and embryos are alive, yes. They do not have a life though. There is a difference. This is all about sanctity of life for you, quite clearly.
I'll wrap this up for you.
Abortion: Stopping cells becoming an unwanted/unplanned baby which, in turn could be born into a world where it may not be cared for or loved. Sometimes these actions resulting in death of the actual baby anyway.
Your view: Preventing the cells is robbing the baby (which we should remember, is still non-existant) of a life.
The way I see it, it's far better to end what could turn out bad, than letting it come to fruition and turn out bad, resulting in what YOU were trying to prevent ANYWAY.
-AC