Abortion

http://www.archdiocese-no.org/respectlife/fetal%20development.htm

http://www.medsurge.com/Articles/Getting%20Pregnant.htm

here are 2 sites
Alpha, You have to have that stage in order for life to develope. That is the beginning of life. You have NO idea how that childs life would end up, but thinking something COULD be bad..doesis not mean he/she will have a bad life. Why shld you assume that?? Why can't she give the baby up for adoption, why is it that YOU think abortion is so easy?? do you think that people that have abortions are happy about it? some, prolly are, but most are not, they never stop thinking about it, it wil always haunt them i'm sure.

"Why can't she give the baby up for adoption?"

Isn't a matter of can't, this is what you don't grasp. It's not can't, it's want. She doesn't WANT to, she WANTS an abortion. It's none of your business to choose whether she can or cannot without shouldering some of the consequences such as adopting a kid yourself.

There is a difference between being alive and having a life.

When you've got your brain around that we can continue this.

-AC

Originally posted by Fiery Eyes
http://www.archdiocese-no.org/respectlife/fetal%20development.htm

http://www.medsurge.com/Articles/Getting%20Pregnant.htm

here are 2 sites
Alpha, You have to have that stage in order for life to develope. That is the beginning of life. You have NO idea how that childs life would end up, but thinking something COULD be bad..doesis not mean he/she will have a bad life. Why shld you assume that?? Why can't she give the baby up for adoption, why is it that YOU think abortion is so easy?? do you think that people that have abortions are happy about it? some, prolly are, but most are not, they never stop thinking about it, it wil always haunt them i'm sure.

Originally posted by naybean
why is it you think giving a child up for adoption is easy? do you not think it would be harder for a woman to give up something she has been carrying for 9 months rather than abort something she's only known about for a week? Do you think they will forget giving that child up for adoption? dont u think it will be more painful for them knowing they have a child thats calling someone else mum? You think that wont haunt them for the rest of their lives?

For starters, i've NEVER said it would be easy to give a baby up for adoption. What I said was, instead of killing a baby she should give it up for adoption, big difference there. It would be very hard i would imagine, but I think the haunting of killing a baby would be worse.

Alpha, you always act like that when someone doesn't agree w/you? lol 🙂

Originally posted by Fiery Eyes
Omega: lol since when are babies and people not the same thing? Are you with me so far?

linguistically it does make a difference. a lot of this discussion goes on whther to refer to the unborn as a 'ball of cells' or an 'innocent baby'. when you refer to it as an 'innocent baby', you connect it with certain qualities, such as being defenceless, innocent (of course), cute, dependent, etc. by choosing to refer to the victims of god as 'people', you connect these with more 'mature' qualities, thus not making it sound as bad as when talking about 'killing babies.'

The debate should actually concentrate on whether people should have the right to choose. If you honestly believe that you would rather have an abortion, because you don't think you will be able to handle raising a child at that time, should other people have the right to make you have that child?

Or should you have the right to choose about matters that concern your life? In other words, should we live in a society that encourages freedom of choice or should we live in a society that does not recognise individual differences, but rather enforces an arbitrary set of rules on all people (no matter what their unique circumstances might be) dating from an archaic belief sytem?

Originally posted by Fiery Eyes
For starters, i've NEVER said it would be easy to give a baby up for adoption. What I said was, instead of killing a baby she should give it up for adoption, big difference there. It would be very hard i would imagine, but I think the haunting of killing a baby would be worse.

Originally posted by Fiery Eyes
For starters, i've NEVER said it would be easy to give a baby up for adoption. What I said was, instead of killing a baby she should give it up for adoption, big difference there. It would be very hard i would imagine, but I think the haunting of killing a baby would be worse.

Alpha, you always act like that when someone doesn't agree w/you? lol 🙂

"For starters, i've NEVER said it would be easy to give a baby up for adoption. What I said was, instead of killing a baby she should give it up for adoption, big difference there. It would be very hard i would imagine, but I think the haunting of killing a baby would be worse"

Again, you completely replace the fact that everyone thinks differently than you do, with the thought that everyone thinks as you do.

YOU think that abortion is killing a baby, YOU DO. We've established that. The fact of the matter is, she may not and rightly too. So if she doesn't believe that abortion is killing a baby as you WOULD have her believe, then she will obviously go for abortion over adoption if she doesn't want a baby to BEGIN and finish growing in her then pass it on.

"Alpha, you always act like that when someone doesn't agree w/you? lol"

The fact is, you are trying continuously to override fact with opinion. It is not a baby at the point of abortion, fact. Being ALIVE and having a conscious LIFE are two different things. A plant is alive, it doesn't have a LIFE though does it? It has no quality of life. It just lives. The baby can only be a baby when it's......well a baby. It can't be a baby when it's cells.

If you can begin to grasp this concept I'll continue with you because there is no point in battling against someone who tries to fight fact with opinion.

First Month After Conception HERE IS WHAT ONE SITE SAYS:

Your spiritually adopted baby has been quite active over the past month. Already your baby is 10,000 bigger than at conception and has developed the foundations of his or her nervous system, including the brain and spinal cord, by the 20th day. During the first 4 weeks, the baby's organs are starting to form. The heart began to beat on the 22nd day and is pumping blood through the circulatory system. The blood type may be different from the mother's. Your baby is the most vulnerable during the next month to being aborted. Pray that the Lord of Life might move the heart of this baby's mother to give him or her the most precious gift - the gift of life.

What you call a ball of cells, I call life:

Pregnancy Begins: Fertilization
The sperm fertilizes the egg (ovum) at the time of ovulation (release of the egg from the ovary), which typically occurs aroun d day 14 of the menstrual cycle. Only one sperm can enter the egg: The male or female sex of the baby is determined at this moment. Once fertilization occurs, the egg/sperm cell, called a zygote, begins to divide into multiple cells that start the development of differing tissues and organs. At this time, the developing baby is called an embryo. The embryo attaches to the wall of the uterus (womb) about 6 days after fertilization.
End of Week Two
The mother's blood supply (identified by the dark red blood vessels) can be seen beginning to surround the embryo; eventually it will connect with vessels the embryo forms to develop the placenta. The embryo (purple oval structure) is contained within the amniotic cavity and is connected to the yolk sac (brown oval structure) by a narrow yolk stalk. The yolk sac helps deliver nutrients to the embryo and fosters blood vessel development.

"What you call a ball of cells, I call life:"

Exactly....

-AC

Originally posted by The Omega

Myth>“To me, abortion already is a crime (morally, although not legally)
Putting a ban wouldn't eliminate abortion, although it would drastically reduce it.
Therefore, there would be less crime.”
How would making abortions ILLEGAL result in ”less crime”? Now, when it is not illegal abortions do not count AS crimes. MAKE it illegal, and unfortunate women and couples will turn to back-alleys and foreign countries. Which would result in a RISE “in crime.”

Read what I'm talking about. I am saying that there will be a decrease in "moral" crime. Not what the government currently says is a crime.

"has developed the foundations of his or her nervous system, including the brain and spinal cord, by the 20th day."

Not true, actually -- like I posted before, the brain doesn't form until the 9th week of pregnancy.

A fetus is a ball of cells. You cannot refute this, no matter how many bible quotes and religious sites you pull up.

And to all you pro-life people here who believe that abortion should be outlawed -- What exactly makes you think that YOU have the right to tell millions of women what to do with their bodies? Have you not heard of personal autonomy, the right to make your own decisions about your life?

I could blow such an idea about personal autonomy out of all proportion, I mean we live in a world were there is so many laws about what we can't do. I mean, say I want to take drugs, my life, my body, but hey, no, its illegal. If I want to drive fast, or climb the side of a tall building or even throw myself from one after finding out I have incurable cancer, well, all highly illegal. Of course its argued such acts hurt yourself and perhaps others. Of course I would argue abortion does the same. And its interesting the standard of double think that exists. There has been a growing degree of criminal and civil cases that revolve around the death of babies early in the pregnancy. A man crashes his car into another that is driven by a women that is 4 or 5 weeks pregnant (earlier in rare cases), and he can be charged in some countries with manslaughter if the "foetus" dies. That is just an example, and it has been happening, here in Australia recently. I remember one such case, and a pro abortion girl saying how the guy was a monster for ACCIDENTALLY killing the foetus, but she supports the right of a women to INTENTIONALLY kill a foetus.

Originally posted by Silver Stardust
"has developed the foundations of his or her nervous system, including the brain and spinal cord, by the 20th day."

Not true, actually -- like I posted before, the brain doesn't form until the 9th week of pregnancy.

A fetus is a ball of cells. You cannot refute this, no matter how many bible quotes and religious sites you pull up.

And to all you pro-life people here who believe that abortion should be outlawed -- What exactly makes you think that YOU have the right to tell millions of women what to do with their bodies? Have you not heard of personal autonomy, the right to make your own decisions about your life?

So you are saying that it isn't human till a brain develops? Well, a brain doesn't develop in a second. It is a gradual process. It grows 1 cell at a time and there is no point from a certain amount of cells to adding just 1 that changes everything making it alive. So therefore, it couldn't be a bunch of cells=no life and then have the same bunch of cells+1=life. And there is no "in between" life.

They can make decisions about their bodies. However, a fetus is not their body. Again, how can 1 body have: 2 blood types, 2 different DNAs, 2 different races? It can't because it is 2 different bodies, not 1.

no, she corrected someone who claimed the brain would develop in 20 days

Originally posted by finti
oh no Im not pregnant I just happen to have irregular periods, they got messed up while I was on the pill sounds familiar?

You call that evidence? Just cause you heard a couple of women make a confused comment with regard to whether they're pregnant you assume you know women are illogical? Finti, I expected more from you.

"the way I answer alot of things is by stories, explaining why i feel or think a certain way, and i'm guessing you don't catch that, sorry."
I don't WANT your stories, hun. I just want simple clear-to-the point answers, such as "yes" or "no".
You merely dodge answers by chanting and telling stories. You refuse to answer this question:
"Are you saying that it is NOT okay for God to murder babies?"

"I've never ever said, I understood ALL of Gods ways, never, no way to understand everything. I do know, that Gods, is giving that exact same warning NOW, will people heed to his warnings?? and the book of revelations tells how it will end. Gods wrath will come upon the earth, we all have the choice now to choose him."
😆
Preaching again, are we? Hm? First you claim not to know ALL of Gods ways, but you DO KNOW that God is gving warnings now? Maybe that is something you don't know either?
Can't you see how absolutely funny this is?
A: THE BIBLE SAYS...
B: But what about this, this can't be right!
A: DON'T TAKE EVERYTHING IN THE BIBLE LITERALLY.
B: WHy not. It says here...
A: I DON'T CLAIM TO KNOW GODS WAYS, BUT I DO KNOW THIS WAY OF GODS!

"Just cuz YOU don't thk it's life, doesn't mean it's so."
Oh, I know you're blind to answers and facts you don't like. Unlike you my knowledge isn't based on BELIEF, dear. An embryo is not life, and it has nothing to do with what I think and do not think. You just have to accept science, dear.

"I simply don't believe that, life begins in stages, w/o that stage, there would never be life, so that STAGE of life is necessary, therefore, makes it life."
How far back do you want to go? Before sperm and egg there are chemicals and water and energy. If you go back even further it's sunlight.
So what - should we worship the sun as you worship embryos? 😄

But start out with preventing guys from - ehrm - wasting their sperms, oh - and make periods illegal as well. Women are wasting potential life there.

But start out with preventing guys from - ehrm - wasting their sperms, oh - and make periods illegal as well. Women are wasting potential life there.

Going by that logic, we may as well outlaw birth control, too!

Yerss -- exactly. The brain isn't developed until the 9th week, I know that it doesn't happen overnight.

Myth -- but at the stage in pregnancy at which we think abortion should be available, the fetus cannot survive outside of the mother's body. And the mother CAN make the decision as to whether or not they want the carry the fetus, which is IN THEIR BODY, to term.

FE. i dont think you can use religion as a support for your argument because there are too many atheists and other religions. If you're going to ban abortions because God says its murder, then it only applies to fellow christians and not to me.