Abortion

You call that evidence? Just cause you heard a couple of women make a confused comment with regard to whether they're pregnant you assume you know women are illogical? Finti, I expected more from you.

i would have to say, since i am indeed adopted, i am agaist it. Because i feel if they did not want the kid in the first place the ppl should have used protection,and still they should go throught the pain, and give the kid up, because that way they have the chance to have a better life. that is just because that was what my mom did for me.

"and still they should go throught the pain, and give the kid up, because that way they have the chance to have a better life. that is just because that was what my mom did for me."

Not only is this a biased opinion but it proves my point.

If a child is aborted instead of adopted you avoid future bitterness.

-AC

Originally posted by naybean
FE. i dont think you can use religion as a support for your argument because there are too many atheists and other religions. If you're going to ban abortions because God says its murder, then it only applies to fellow christians and not to me.

I didn't bring up the bible, Omega did and I did list 2 sites to view, which just tell the stages of birth. I have listed lots of reasons why I think abortion is wrong, aside from the bible. I don't need the bible to tell me that abortion is wrng, I already know that it is. Every stage of pregnacy is needed for a life to be born, even though the 1st stage, many think thats JUST cells, that step is needed for life to be born, you kill that step, you kill the baby.

Originally posted by Silver Stardust

Myth -- but at the stage in pregnancy at which we think abortion should be available, the fetus cannot survive outside of the mother's body. And the mother CAN make the decision as to whether or not they want the carry the fetus, which is IN THEIR BODY, to term.

"In their body" does not mean "is" their body. Other organisms cannot live outside of another organism's body yet they are still alive. You are right that they "can", but it is morally wrong.

You are right that they "can", but it is morally wrong.

Originally posted by Fiery Eyes
I didn't bring up the bible, Omega did and I did list 2 sites to view, which just tell the stages of birth. I have listed lots of reasons why I think abortion is wrong, aside from the bible. I don't need the bible to tell me that abortion is wrng, I already know that it is. Every stage of pregnacy is needed for a life to be born, even though the 1st stage, many think thats JUST cells, that step is needed for life to be born, you kill that step, you kill the baby.

Originally posted by finti
too you that is moraly wrong, to others it aint

Exactly. And what makes you think that you have the right to push your moral code onto other people, Myth?

Regardless of the moment life begins, is the issue of whether or not it morally incumbent on a woman to accede to a forced pregnancy, an issue that I raised many pages ago that has still not been addressed. For the sake of discussion, here is the original post:

Originally posted by Adam_PoE

I propose, then, that we grant that the fetus is a person from the moment of conception. How does the argument go from here? Something like this, I take it. Every person has a right to life. So the fetus has a right to life. No doubt the mother has a right to decide what shall happen in and to her body; everyone would grant that. But surely a person's right to life is stronger and more stringent than the mother's right to decide what happens in and to her body, and so outweighs it. So the fetus may not be killed; an abortion may not be performed.

It sounds plausible. But now let me ask you to imagine this. You wake up in the morning and find yourself back to back in bed with an unconscious violinist. A famous unconscious violinist. He has been found to have a fatal kidney ailment, and the Society of Music Lovers has canvassed all the available medical records and found that you alone have the right blood type to help. They have therefore kidnapped you, and last night the violinist's circulatory system was plugged into yours, so that your kidneys can be used to extract poisons from his blood as well as your own. The director of the hospital now tells you, "Look, we're sorry the Society of Music Lovers did this to you—we would never have permitted it if we had known. But still, they did it, and the violinist now is plugged into you. To unplug you would be to kill him. But never mind, it's only for nine months. By then he will have recovered from his ailment, and can safely be unplugged from you.

Is it morally incumbent on you to accede to this situation? No doubt it would be very nice of you if you did, a great kindness. But do you have to accede to it? What if it were not nine months, but nine years? Or longer still? What if the director of the hospital says, "Tough luck, I agree, but you've now got to stay in bed, with the violinist plugged into you, for the rest of your life. Because remember this. All persons have a right to life, and violinists are persons. Granted you have a right to decide what happens in and to your body, but a person's right to life outweighs your right to decide what happens in and to your body. So you cannot ever be unplugged from him." I imagine you would regard this as outrageous, which suggests that something really is wrong with that plausible-sounding argument I mentioned a moment ago.

Abortion really isn't as complicated an issue as others believe it to be really.

We can sit here and debate morality or we can come to the realisation that it's none of our ****ing business what a woman wants to do with her body and everything in it. It's not affecting my life or any of your lives so why should you have any say? Answer: You shouldn't and don't have any say.

Don't force others to make life-changing decisions because of your beliefs. THAT is morally wrong and if abortion should become illegal, I hope you're all ready to adopt one of the kids you're forcing the women to have. If not, keep your mouthes shut about what they wanna do with their bodies.

Scientifically, it's not a life when it's conceived. So unless you can go prove science wrong, this debate comes down to your sanctity of life. Which is no grounds for debate. Because sanctity of life doesn't just mean letting everything come into the world, it means making the right choice so that any life that does come into the world, is a good one. If the life is a mistake or forced, it's very unlikely it will be anything but good and the very fact that the mother's life will be changed (negatively most likely) forever, is going against your sanctity of life theory anyway.

So think before you post.

-AC

Silver Stardust> ” Going by that logic, we may as well outlaw birth control, too!”
Well, that’s the Catholic Church for you there.
“Every sperm is sacred…” Monthy Pythons off into the sunset…

Naybean> “If you're going to ban abortions because God says its murder, then it only applies to fellow Christians and not to me.”
Good point. But FE won’t defend your right to say this…

Darinda> “i would have to say, since i am indeed adopted, i am agaist it.”
So because YOU are adopted, you want to control what every woman on the planet does with her body!??!?!?

FE> Just because you skipped it:
"the way I answer alot of things is by stories, explaining why i feel or think a certain way, and i'm guessing you don't catch that, sorry."
I don't WANT your stories, hun. I just want simple clear-to-the point answers, such as "yes" or "no".
You merely dodge answers by chanting and telling stories. You refuse to answer this question:
"Are you saying that it is NOT okay for God to murder babies?"

"I've never ever said, I understood ALL of Gods ways, never, no way to understand everything. I do know, that Gods, is giving that exact same warning NOW, will people heed to his warn-ings?? and the book of revelations tells how it will end. Gods wrath will come upon the earth, we all have the choice now to choose him."

Preaching again, are we? Hm? First you claim not to know ALL of Gods ways, but you DO KNOW that God is gving warnings now? Maybe that is something you don't know either?
Can't you see how absolutely funny this is?
A: THE BIBLE SAYS...
B: But what about this, this can't be right!
A: DON'T TAKE EVERYTHING IN THE BIBLE LITERALLY.
B: WHy not. It says here...
A: I DON'T CLAIM TO KNOW GODS WAYS, BUT I DO KNOW THIS WAY OF GODS!

"Just cuz YOU don't thk it's life, doesn't mean it's so."
Oh, I know you're blind to answers and facts you don't like. Unlike you my knowledge isn't ba-sed on BELIEF, dear. An embryo is not life, and it has nothing to do with what I think and do not think. You just have to accept science, dear.

"I simply don't believe that, life begins in stages, w/o that stage, there would never be life, so that STAGE of life is necessary, therefore, makes it life."
How far back do you want to go? Before sperm and egg there are chemicals and water and en-ergy. If you go back even further it's sunlight.
So what - should we worship the sun as you worship embryos?

AC> ” Don't force others to make life-changing decisions because of your beliefs. THAT is mor-ally wrong and if abortion should become illegal, I hope you're all ready to adopt one of the kids you're forcing the women to have. If not, keep your mouthes shut about what they wanna do with their bodies.”
Hear hear!

Originally posted by Fiery Eyes
I didn't bring up the bible, Omega did and I did list 2 sites to view, which just tell the stages of birth. I have listed lots of reasons why I think abortion is wrong, aside from the bible. I don't need the bible to tell me that abortion is wrng, I already know that it is. Every stage of pregnacy is needed for a life to be born, even though the 1st stage, many think thats JUST cells, that step is needed for life to be born, you kill that step, you kill the baby.

Naybean: I just feel it's wrong to kill babies. I know I know you don't think it is a baby yet, but I do and thats all that matters to me, I wouldn't care if society or the govn't said I could abort the baby, to me its morally wrong, to me it's murder and I would fight for abortion to be illegal, however i would NOT be one that would shoot the doctor that performed the abortion, nor would I yell and scream horrible things at the lady that got an abortion, to me that is wrong. I would not want to put in more pressure on the lady thats having an abortion than what she obviously already has on her.

Fiery Eyes> I see and understand what you're saying about being agaisn't abortion. I know for a fact that you also don't support the death penalty. So what I undestand is that you respect human life and that's understanble. I personally do NOT approve of Abortion if it is use as a substitude for contraceptives. There are cases in which an abortion is necessary. But to abuse it is wrong in my view. People tend to think I'm some sort of Christian, but I'm not anywhere near that. There are things like the Death Penalty which I highly approve and I know for a fact that Christians don't approve it.

Fiery Eyes, you don't seem to be a bad person. Just very very inconsiderate and I hope what I am about to say is going to pop the bubble surrounding you and make you realise that this is not a Disney movie, It's life...

"Naybean: I just feel it's wrong to kill babies. I know I know you don't think it is a baby yet, but I do and thats all that matters to me"

Naybean doesn't think it's not a baby, neither do I. The FACT is that it is NOT a baby. It doesn't matter whether you feel it is or not, because it isn't. So you can say that it's all that matters to you because "all that matters to you" doesn't cover that fact that because of your WRONG perception on those cells, that woman is gonna have a baby she doesn't want.

Pop the bubble and come out of it. It's a scary world but learn to live in it like we all have to.

Everyone has a right to an opinion and there's only so far opinions can go before they hit a brick wall that I like to call "Fact". That wall cannot be climbed over, it cannot be knocked down and it cannot be ignored by opinion.

Fact: At time of abortion, the cells are not a baby. It's really that simple.

-AC

Not all christains are against the death penalty. My husbands not and he is a christain. And i'm talking about.....cases such as serial killers, manson...My hubby and many christains think they shld get the death penalty. I just feel they shldn't, i guess cuz i believe everyone shld get that second chance, but yet... would be hard to say that if it was you kid they had killed, ya never know.

Alpha: it is life rather you want to believe that or not is strictly up to you. YOU have to have that stage, in order for life to produce, it is a necessary stage.

Originally posted by Fiery Eyes
Not all christains are against the death penalty. My husbands not and he is a christain. And i'm talking about.....cases such as serial killers, manson...My hubby and many christains think they shld get the death penalty. I just feel they shldn't, i guess cuz i believe everyone shld get that second chance, but yet... would be hard to say that if it was you kid they had killed, ya never know.

I came to that conclusion from my conversations with other Christians groups. True, not all of them are agaisn't it, but in certain cases they would agree that it is necessary. In other cases they would argue that it is wrong and that no one should take another person's life. Human life is too precious and to a certain extend that is a humanitarian thing to do. I'm thinking around the line of Mother Theresa. She was agains't abortion even though she came from a country in which life is to harsh to live. She was a good example of a humanitarian and her views pretty much resemble those of Christians that are agaisn't the death penalty and abortion.

Don't you see? FE is pretty much using religion as the argument. 😬

Originally posted by Silver Stardust
Exactly. And what makes you think that you have the right to push your moral code onto other people, Myth?

You do realize that laws are based on morals, right? We don't murder people because it is morally wrong. Somebody may not see it morally wrong, so should we not push our moral code upon them? No. Laws are needed to protect.