Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You claim that since I am a prolifer that I am forcing my beliefs on others.
Did I? Where? Because I swear I said you're forcing your beliefs because you'd vote to ban abortion, and would have it banned if you could, which is a fact. You not liking that doesn't change this. You would forcefully remove an option that a woman has a right to, based on personal subjective morals; That's forcing beliefs.
I know many pro-lifers who aren't oppressive idiots.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I now throw that back at you. You seem to think that since I would vote prolife in this ridiculous "voting" scenario that I am limiting a woman's rights.
There's no "seem". You would be. She has, deserves, and has a right to, two options.
You would make it so there is just one. How is there any "seems like"?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
What about the unborn fetus? What about the fact that when a woman has an abortion, she takes away any and all chance of this fetus experiencing the joy of life?
What about all the shit in life? What about the fact that it could die after birth? What about, what about, what about? Nothing. You can't force a woman to keep a baby based on "What about..." or "What if..." and only focus on the good stuff. The baby could grow up to be Ted Bundy 2 for all you know. It's a stupid argument.
A foetus doesn't have the same legal rights as a fully grown human for a reason; It isn't one. You cannot say "I'm not suppressing a woman's rights! YOU are suppressing the foetuses right!", because it's an irrelevant retort. YOU are suppressing the woman's rights regardless of what you THINK we are suppressing regarding the foetus.
You would ban abortion, why? Personal opinion. Your personal opinion would then apply to everyone, people would HAVE to stop doing something they have a right to because YOU dislike it. That's forcing beliefs, have the manhood to admit it.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
What if this fetus is to become an great leader, or a doctor, or some other great occupation? Which is the lesser of the following two evils: 1. Making a woman be uncomfortable for 9 months (at the end of which she can give up the baby for adoption if she doesn't want it) or 2. Robbing a potential living breathing being of a chance at life?
Oh that is the biggest bullshit argument ever. What if it grew up to be Hitler, a rapist, a murder, an idiot on an internet messageboard? It could become any number of ANYTHING. It's nazi-like to force a woman NOT to do something because of what the foetus MIGHT become, and even then, only to focus on the good.
The foetus wouldn't even be a foetus without the woman, so I suggest you take that trashbag argument back to the trash can itself.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
no one is getting crushed here. this is not a competition. You take this way too seriously, man. And when others chime in it just fuels your ego. I just don't understand why you can't be like "OK....RJ believes this, so I am going to discuss it like an adult." No....you are like the high school bully, the crowd cheering you on, puffing your chest out.
Oh don't make this about me again, please.
The fact is, everyone here is smashing your debate and proving you to be a raging hypocrite with every post you make. You are the one who won't admit it. We have proven, factually, how you are forcing your beliefs on others, but because you have convinced yourself you're not an oppressive person, you deny it. Face facts and have some responsibility.
Just because you prefer to use your time in the GDF to mostly tack irrelevant one-liners onto the end of legitimate debates, doesn't mean that if you enter one, we all have to take it as a big joke because you don't like serious debate. It's the GDF, it's what we do here, and it's what we've done here since you were creating "Don't you hate it when..." threads in the OTF. If you don't like it, leave, but don't come here and complain about how we do things when nobody is forcing you to participate.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
They can be the.....Father?
Yes, do you know many men who have had abortions? I don't think you do, RJ. Abortion is never an option for a man, cos pregnancy never is.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No one is weaselling out. Running away? so I leave for a few hours to shower and have dinner, so this means I am running away?
Who said that? I said you were running away because you are trying to make this debate about everything other than how we've proven you force your beliefs.
You see, your idea of "Discussing it like an adult.", is people just accepting what you think and letting you get away with it, and that's not the case. You messed up, we're proving you're a hypocrite.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You don't come here to talk, you come here looking for windows of oppurtunity to bash other members. Somehow I have made it to the top of your list. And what is wrong with being polite and being a gentleman?See the first part of this post.
Don't flatter yourself, you're not top of my list, you just happen to make a lot of posts I reply to, so do others.
Don't make this about me, and stop dodging my question;
If you believe you aren't forcing beliefs; What do you call it to ban abortion based on your PERSONAL OPINION? Remember, the ban applies to those who wouldn't share the opinion too.
What happened to taking a stand? What you should be saying, although still wrong, is; "I feel it's necessary to suppress people's rights if they go too far, which I feel abortion is.", but you're not. You are denying forcing your beliefs on people.
You say "Why can't you just accept what I believe?", why can't you just accept that people have the right to abortion? Nobody is saying you have to like it, but it's their right.
If you accepted your hypocritical stance, we could move onto another stage of the debate, but you won't, cos you seem to want the best of both worlds. "I wanna be a freedom loving, non-belief forcing person! I also want to ban abortion! Through ignorance, I can achieve both!". Doesn't work that way, pumpkin.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauriand what of the people out there who are prolife? aren't you doing the same, forcing your beliefs upon them?
Did I? Where? Because I swear I said you're forcing your beliefs because you'd vote to ban abortion, and would have it banned if you could, which is a fact. You not liking that doesn't change this. You would forcefully remove an option that a woman has a right to, based on personal subjective morals; That's forcing beliefs.I know many pro-lifers who aren't oppressive idiots.
There's no "seem". You would be. She has, deserves, and has a right to, two options.and one of these options includes snubbing out the life inside her? what gives you or me, or her, more of a right to live than the potential life dwelling within her?You would make it so there is just one. How is there any "seems like"?
What about all the shit in life? What about the fact that it could die after birth? What about, what about, what about? Nothing. You can't force a woman to keep a baby based on "What about..." or "What if..." and only focus on the good stuff. The baby could grow up to be Ted Bundy 2 for all you know. It's a stupid argument.yes, it could die at birth. yes, it could be the next ted bundy. yes, it could be another whatever. then why procreate in the first place? if we are risking this with every baby that is born, perhaps we should just start cloning humans, so that they might be reared up in a controlled atmosphere. your argument goes against people having families, against having children and raising them. life is a gamble. maybe the baby will be the best human ever to walk the earth, maybe it'll be the worst. we have no way of knowing this.A foetus doesn't have the same legal rights as a fully grown human for a reason; It isn't one. You cannot say "I'm not suppressing a woman's rights! YOU are suppressing the foetuses right!", because it's an irrelevant retort. YOU are suppressing the woman's rights regardless of what you THINK we are suppressing regarding the foetus.
You would ban abortion, why? Personal opinion. Your personal opinion would then apply to everyone, people would HAVE to stop doing something they have a right to because YOU dislike it. That's forcing beliefs, have the manhood to admit it.this is why I would not vote on it in the first place. but, if forced to, I would go with prolife. and you really need to stop questioning my manhood. it's a childish attempt at getting a rise out of me.
Oh that is the biggest bullshit argument ever. What if it grew up to be Hitler, a rapist, a murder, an idiot on an internet messageboard? It could become any number of ANYTHING. It's nazi-like to force a woman NOT to do something because of what the foetus MIGHT become, and even then, only to focus on the good.thats the whole point. it deserves the chance to grow, to develop, to experience life to the fullest. if it becomes hitler part two, so be it. if it becomes a rapist, hey, free will, it made that decision on it's own.The foetus wouldn't even be a foetus without the woman, so I suggest you take that trashbag argument back to the trash can itself.
Oh don't make this about me again, please.fact is that the only people who post here, with the exception of myself and a couple of others, are prochoice. naturally they are going to join forces, thats how we are as human beings.The fact is, everyone here is smashing your debate and proving you to be a raging hypocrite with every post you make. You are the one who won't admit it. We have proven, factually, how you are forcing your beliefs on others, but because you have convinced yourself you're not an oppressive person, you deny it. Face facts and have some responsibility.
Just because you prefer to use your time in the GDF to mostly tack irrelevant one-liners onto the end of legitimate debates, doesn't mean that if you enter one, we all have to take it as a big joke because you don't like serious debate. It's the GDF, it's what we do here, and it's what we've done here since you were creating "Don't you hate it when..." threads in the OTF. If you don't like it, leave, but don't come here and complain about how we do things when nobody is forcing you to participate.i see people posting ine liners here every day and not getting called on it. for some reason I get called on it constantly. preffered treatment? and I have just as much of a right to be here as you, so you can shove "if you dont like the way we do things here you can leave" up your ass.
Yes, do you know many men who have had abortions? I don't think you do, RJ. Abortion is never an option for a man, cos pregnancy never is.so a man who is lookung forward to being a father, who is going to be there for her day in and day out, it has no effect on him?
Who said that? I said you were running away because you are trying to make this debate about everything other than how we've proven you force your beliefs.my idea of discussing it like an adult is not passing my word of as law, and not calling everyone idiots who does not conform to my way of thinking.You see, your idea of "Discussing it like an adult.", is people just accepting what you think and letting you get away with it, and that's not the case. You messed up, we're proving you're a hypocrite.
Don't flatter yourself, you're not top of my list, you just happen to make a lot of posts I reply to, so do others.again, by voting prochoice you ae forcing your beliefs on prolifers.Don't make this about me, and stop dodging my question;
If you believe you aren't forcing beliefs; What do you call it to ban abortion based on your PERSONAL OPINION? Remember, the ban applies to those who wouldn't share the opinion too.
What happened to taking a stand? What you should be saying, although still wrong, is; "I feel it's necessary to suppress people's rights if they go too far, which I feel abortion is.", but you're not. You are denying forcing your beliefs on people.did you just call me pumpkin? 😕 ok.....sweetcheeks?You say "Why can't you just accept what I believe?", why can't you just accept that people have the right to abortion? Nobody is saying you have to like it, but it's their right.
If you accepted your hypocritical stance, we could move onto another stage of the debate, but you won't, cos you seem to want the best of both worlds. "I wanna be a freedom loving, non-belief forcing person! I also want to ban abortion! Through ignorance, I can achieve both!". Doesn't work that way, pumpkin.
-AC
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
and what of the people out there who are prolife? aren't you doing the same, forcing your beliefs upon them?
and one of these options includes snubbing out the life inside her? what gives you or me, or her, more of a right to live than the potential life dwelling within her?
yes, it could die at birth. yes, it could be the next ted bundy. yes, it could be another whatever. then why procreate in the first place? if we are risking this with every baby that is born, perhaps we should just start cloning humans, so that they might be reared up in a controlled atmosphere. your argument goes against people having families, against having children and raising them. life is a gamble. maybe the baby will be the best human ever to walk the earth, maybe it'll be the worst. we have no way of knowing this.
thats the whole point. it deserves the chance to grow, to develop, to experience life to the fullest. if it becomes hitler part two, so be it. if it becomes a rapist, hey, free will, it made that decision on it's own.
so a man who is lookung forward to being a father, who is going to be there for her day in and day out, it has no effect on him?That's not the point. There's no question that it has an effect on the father, the point is it's not their choice. It's the mothers'. Men can't get pregnant, so the can't get an abortion, so what right does any man have to make that choice for someone else?
again, by voting pro-choice you are forcing your beliefs on pro-lifers.Again, that's just plain idiotic. Is allowing gay marriage forcing a belief of straight people? Absolutely not. It's allowing gay people to get married, plain and simple. But banning gay marriage is oppressing gay people. See the parallel? Legal abortions allows those who are pro-choice to have an abortion. Does legal abortion force those who are pro-life to have an abortion? No, don't be an idiot. Banning abortion, however, is oppressing pro-choice women. Banning abortion is forcing a belief. Allowing abortion does nothing to pro-life people. It's not their fetuses getting aborted.
Originally posted by Strangelovehas it occured to anyone here that this part of the debate is based on a "vote" that will never happen?
No....it's most definitely not. Because if a pro-life woman gets pregnant, it doesn't matter whether or not abortion is legal, she's going to have the baby. That's not forcing shit.
Oh don't be an idiot. Abortion is a choice made by the mother. And no one other than the mother has a right to make that choice. And yes, it's a weighty choice with consequences. But that's the by-product of a choice. And taking away that choice is not the right thing to do by any stretch of the imagination.It just seems the easy way out, getting an abortion. there are alternatives to keeping the child, such as abortion.
Then why bother to argue that it could be a world leader or a doctor? You just made your own point irrelevant.it was said to me that the child could be the next ted bundy, a rapist, or another hitler. i responded with the child also could be a great leader or a doctor. where's the confusion? It could go either way.
And what do you say about revoking the right of a woman to decided whether or not she wants a baby? "Hey, that's free will?" Bullshit. It's free will to let a woman who wants an abortion to get one. And it's oppression to take away that choice.the free will comment was aimed towards the newborn baby, that he or she has the choice to become whatever they want to.
That's not the point. There's no question that it has an effect on the father, the point is it's not their choice. It's the mothers'. Men can't get pregnant, so the can't get an abortion, so what right does any man have to make that choice for someone else?It is indeed the point. the woman did not make the bay on her own, it is an equal partnership. sure, she gets the shit end by having to carry the child and give birth, but it is still a partnership.
Again, that's just plain idiotic. Is allowing gay marriage forcing a belief of straight people? Absolutely not. It's allowing gay people to get married, plain and simple. But banning gay marriage is oppressing gay people. See the parallel? Legal abortions allows those who are pro-choice to have an abortion. Does legal abortion force those who are pro-life to have an abortion? No, don't be an idiot. Banning abortion, however, is oppressing pro-choice women. Banning abortion is forcing a belief. Allowing abortion does nothing to pro-life people. It's not their fetuses getting aborted.see top post.
We can say the same for people who are pro-abortion. we are not the one telling the woman she can go around having abortions and kill her body by doing so.
It may sound strange but you pro-abortion people are the ones doing that.To kill or not to kill that is the woman's choice!That does not sound like a choice to me it sounds like murder.jm
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
We can say the same for people who are pro-abortion. we are not the one telling the woman she can go around having abortions and kill her body by doing so.
It may sound strange but you pro-abortion people are the ones doing that.To kill or not to kill that is the woman's choice!That does not sound like a choice to me it sounds like murder.jm
Theres no such thing as pro-abortion, ffs its not like Eric Cartman wanting stem cells, its called choice... Here we go again with the word murder, go back a few pages and read some posts, also how is she killing her body?????
Originally posted by Rogue JediThat's not a response to the issue. Banning abortion is forcing a belief on a bloc of people. Keeping it legal does not.
has it occured to anyone here that this part of the debate is based on a "vote" that will never happen?
It just seems the easy way out, getting an abortion. there are alternatives to keeping the child, such as abortion.Easy way out my ass. It's a very difficult choice, make no mistake.
it was said to me that the child could be the next ted bundy, a rapist, or another hitler. i responded with the child also could be a great leader or a doctor. where's the confusion? It could go either way.Actually, you said "doctor or world leader" first, to be fair. The point is that it really doesn't matter what the fetus could be. What matters is what it is. And a fetus is not a person, it is a fetus.
the free will comment was aimed towards the newborn baby, that he or she has the choice to become whatever they want to.I'm aware of that, I was just pointing out another facet of the free will argument.
It is indeed the point. the woman did not make the bay on her own, it is an equal partnership. sure, she gets the shit end by having to carry the child and give birth, but it is still a partnership.Absolutely. But in the end, I think that the woman's choice has more weight than the man's
Originally posted by Strangelovesorry, but I don't see eye to eye on you with that. I totally get what you are saying, I just see it differently.
That's not a response to the issue. Banning abortion is forcing a belief on a bloc of people. Keeping it legal does not.
Easy way out my ass. It's a very difficult choice, make no mistake.It's the easy way out because a woman can have an abortion merely because she does not want the hassle of dealing with the 9 month pregnancy. And as far as "oh my god, I can't have a baby yet, I am not ready for it, financially or otherwise.?"....ADOPTION.
Actually, you said "doctor or world leader" first, to be fair. The point is that it really doesn't matter what the fetus could be. What matters is what it is. And a fetus is not a person, it is a fetus.It is a potential living being. aware or not, it is a human being.
I'm aware of that, I was just pointing out another facet of the free will argument.I gotcha. 😉
Absolutely. But in the end, I think that the woman's choice has more weight than the man'sdoesn't sound like "equality of the sexes" to me.
Originally posted by smoker4
Theres no such thing as pro-abortion, ffs its not like Eric Cartman wanting stem cells, its called choice... Here we go again with the word murder, go back a few pages and read some posts, also how is she killing her body?????
After abortions are done there are alot of things that can be wrong with the woman's body.By having an abortion they are taking alot of risks on there bodys.
ALot of the illness are too sick for me to even say so I will not.If I find a link about it I will post it.Promoise.And again it is Pro-abortion there is no choice here at all.
It is sexist to think that the woman have a choice and they don't.And yes it is murder.What do you think happens to the baby during the abortion?
If you know so much about it then you say you should know that they suck out the baby out of the woman's body with some stuff that kills it.
It is almost like being a rabbit in a hole and suddenly being pulled out the home and being killed.
That is like a baby.She or he feels safe in the womb and are suddenly pulled out and killed.How would you feel?jm 🙂
Originally posted by Rogue JediAnd why is that? How does keeping abortion legal force a belief on those who are pro-life? "Pro-lifers" aren't affected by it in any way.
sorry, but I don't see eye to eye on you with that. I totally get what you are saying, I just see it differently.
It's the easy way out because a woman can have an abortion merely because she does not want the hassle of dealing with the 9 month pregnancy. And as far as "oh my god, I can't have a baby yet, I am not ready for it, financially or otherwise.?"....ADOPTION.There are scads of medical costs that come with a pregnancy. If a mother is ill-prepared, financially, for a baby, then they should have the choice to not do it. And unless people would like to pay more taxes to allow for free medical care for mothers whose children will be put up for adoption, then I don't see how forcing them to have the baby is a positive thing at all.
It is a potential living being. aware or not, it is a human being.You can't say "it is a potential human being" and "it is a human being" in the same breath. It's stupid. Either it's a potential human or it's a human (hint: it's the first one)
doesn't sound like "equality of the sexes" to me.Fine. Let's try and introduce a referendum on men being kicked in the balls. Do you think that women have an equal say in that debate?
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
After abortions are done there are alot of things that can be wrong with the woman's body.By having an abortion they are taking alot of risks on there bodys.
ALot of the illness are too sick for me to even say so I will not.If I find a link about it I will post it.Promoise.And again it is Pro-abortion there is no choice here at all.
It is sexist to think that the woman have a choice and they don't.And yes it is murder.What do you think happens to the baby during the abortion?
If you know so much about it then you say you should know that they suck out the baby out of the woman's body with some stuff that kills it.
It is almost like being a rabbit in a hole and suddenly being pulled out the home and being killed.
That is like a baby.She or he feels safe in the womb and are suddenly pulled out and killed.How would you feel?jm 🙂
You know what, everything she said is right, and full of sense.
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
After abortions are done there are alot of things that can be wrong with the woman's body.By having an abortion they are taking alot of risks on there bodys.
And having a baby you can't care for leads to stress, financial disaster, danger for the child.
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
It is sexist to think that the woman have a choice and they don't.
🤨
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
And yes it is murder.What do you think happens to the baby during the abortion?
🙄 Yeah that must be it. All those proChoice people must have no idea what an abortion is.
What do you think happens to a mother and child who can't support themselves?
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
If you know so much about it then you say you should know that they suck out the baby out of the woman's body with some stuff that kills it.
It is almost like being a rabbit in a hole and suddenly being pulled out the home and being killed.
That is like a baby.She or he feels safe in the womb and are suddenly pulled out and killed.How would you feel?jm 🙂
Terrible analogy. The fetus is dead before it knows what hit it. In fact the fetus isn't capable of know what hit it due to its lack of development.
The woman are force to have an abortion that is why.Why even give them that sort of choice to choose something as bad as kiling or not killing?here is a link btw.jm
http://www.deathroe.com/Pro-life_Answers/Answers.cfm?ID=1
http://www.deathroe.com/Pro-life_Answers/Answers.cfm?ID=15