Abortion

Started by xmarksthespot787 pages

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
by "those people" I mean the ones who picket abortion clinics and bomb them. What I am is a far cry from what they are. I was asked my opinion and i stated it. You disagree and cannot handle the fact that I could possibly disagree with you.
"Those people" are the people who attempt to "force their beliefs on others." You are one of those people. Commentary on.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I am alright with you stating your opinion, though it frustrates me. But I think if there was a vote on abortion you would vote on banning it and that is forcing your opinion and that is annoying.

I didn't say you do. And i don't mind your religious believes (though I think they are stupid) as long as you keep them to yourself and just talk about it, that's okay, i am a firm believer in freedom of speech. But many Christians want to force their beliefs on others and that is wrong in my opinion.

Bardock states he believes you would vote in support of banning abortion, correctly, and accurately describes it as forcing ones beliefs on others. He states he dislikes Christians that want to force their beliefs on others.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
what frustrates you? the opinion itself, or that i have one?

and i am not one of these many christians.

You try and sidestep his accurate prediction and accurate description with your sad little martyr complex. And state you're not one of those Christians.
Originally posted by Bardock42
The opinion itself. And that so many people have it. And that they want to force it on others. All that.

And still the question stands. If there is a vote whether abortion should be banned or not.What would you vote?

Bardock again states he dislikes both the opinion and that people want to force that on others. He asks you whether you would vote for banning abortion.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
and as i have said too many times to count, i am not one of these people.

yes, i would vote to ban abortion. you know full well my views on this, so why ask?

You state you are not one of these people. Then contradict yourself in the same post saying you would vote to ban abortion based on your personal beliefs i.e. you would impose your personal beliefs on others given the opportunity.

I can handle your view that abortion is "wrong." I don't really care when inept hypocrites disagree with me.

You have stated you would vote in favor of a ban based on your beliefs, ergo you would force your beliefs on others.
You have stated you are not someone who would force their beliefs on others, ergo you're either an idiot or a hypocrite. Pick one.

No one has said anything about changing your beliefs. All they've pointed out is that you'd seek to impose your beliefs on others given the opportunity.

The past page or so has been you trying to reconcile the fact that you are one of those people who would force their beliefs on others if the opportunity arose, yet don't want to be seen to be one of those people who would force their beliefs on others. Sorry, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Not being able to handle things... projecting much?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
A hypothetical scenario was posted earlier by another member, the voting scenario. I was just following suit. The scenarios that I brought up are actually more valid, everyday occurences than some hypothetical "vote" that will never happen.
You tried to distract from the fact that you would enact an oppressive ban based on your personal beliefs despite your still repeated denial of being someone who would impose their beliefs on others.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
and what of the people out there who are prolife? aren't you doing the same, forcing your beliefs upon them?

How? If they wanna keep the baby, they can do so. I feel everyone has the right to choose, what pro-lifers need to realise, as a lot of them do not, is that it's a CHOICE to be pro-life also. You cannot force pro-lifeism on me or anybody else.

I'm not forcing you to suppress your views. You can rant and rave about abortion all you like, but when it gets to the point that you force that opinion on others, as you would do, it's wrong

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
and one of these options includes snubbing out the life inside her? what gives you or me, or her, more of a right to live than the potential life dwelling within her?

Me? No right. You? No right. Her? Every right. Why? She created it, housed it, hosted it, fed it, sustained it etc. I'm sure you get the picture.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
yes, it could die at birth. yes, it could be the next ted bundy. yes, it could be another whatever. then why procreate in the first place? if we are risking this with every baby that is born, perhaps we should just start cloning humans, so that they might be reared up in a controlled atmosphere. your argument goes against people having families, against having children and raising them. life is a gamble. maybe the baby will be the best human ever to walk the earth, maybe it'll be the worst. we have no way of knowing this.

Because it's the continuation of our species, that's why we procreate. The world is massively overpopulated as it is, we're not gonna die out because women have abortions.

Why do we have to know if it'd be good or bad? At the point of abortion, it's nothing, but the woman isn't. The woman is a living, grown human. She has more right to be here than the foetus does, and the foetus is here BECAUSE of her. You are playing a very, VERY silly semantics game, and if these are your views on abortion, I will defend your right to said opinion, no matter how stupid I think it is. What I will not defend, and what you have no right to do, is apply your beliefs to anyone else.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
this is why I would not vote on it in the first place. but, if forced to, I would go with prolife. and you really need to stop questioning my manhood. it's a childish attempt at getting a rise out of me.

It's not a childish attempt at anything. For someone who makes such manly claims, such as standing up for what you believe in an accepting one's "duty", you really do prance around when it comes to saying what's at hand. You WOULD force your belief on others in order to defend your own, and it's being proven with every single post you make. Admit it or stop claiming otherwise.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
thats the whole point. it deserves the chance to grow, to develop, to experience life to the fullest. if it becomes hitler part two, so be it. if it becomes a rapist, hey, free will, it made that decision on it's own.

To who? To you? What happened to not having the right, or not knowing who does have the right? You think it deserves the chance, you are 100% entitled to THINK that, but you are forceful and oppressive if you would push that onto a female.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
fact is that the only people who post here, with the exception of myself and a couple of others, are prochoice. naturally they are going to join forces, thats how we are as human beings.

We're not joining forces, I don't care who else is replying to you or what they are saying; The FACT is, you would force your beliefs on others if you had to, and to say you would ban abortion, or you think it should be banned, is doing so. You continue to deny it, so you're a hypocrite. If others are saying the exact same thing, it doesn't mean we're joining forces, it means you're as see through as thin ice.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i see people posting ine liners here every day and not getting called on it. for some reason I get called on it constantly. preffered treatment? and I have just as much of a right to be here as you, so you can shove "if you dont like the way we do things here you can leave" up your ass.

Chill out. It's not preferred treatment, and it's not one-liners initially I have a problem with. It's you always doing it and RARELY contributing fully to a debate, such as now. You prance around suggesting everyone shouldn't take debates so "seriously", but welcome to the GDF. You migrated here from the OTF, so you have the burden of acceptance. If you dislike the general demeanour of this forum, I SUGGEST you go elsewhere. If you do not do so, you have zero right to complain. Especially since you get in debates and then expect nobody to reply with any real seriousness just because you don't care enough.

It's really very rude, RJ.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so a man who is lookung forward to being a father, who is going to be there for her day in and day out, it has no effect on him?

Who said that? There are issues regarding fathers' rights that we could very well discuss, but that's no call to ban abortion, that's a call to discuss others involved, and I still think the female needs to have the final say. In any case, you are not the father of every baby, you only ever have involvement if it happens to a potential child of your own. Until then, keep your nose out of business that is of no concern to you.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
my idea of discussing it like an adult is not passing my word of as law, and not calling everyone idiots who does not conform to my way of thinking.

Yeah, and your idea of debating is "I see it differently.", a.k.a the Rogue Jedi way of seeing things because he's wrong-way.

The fact of the matter is; banning abortion for personal reasons is forcing personal opinion on other people, ergo; it's forcing beliefs. You "not seeing" it that way, is just you being a blind, ignorant and oppressive fool. It's not a matter of "Oh we see things differently, it's subjective.". It's not. Banning abortion is forcing beliefs.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
again, by voting prochoice you ae forcing your beliefs on prolifers.

How? I've explicitly explained to you why that isn't so. I'm not forcing anyone to DO or NOT DO anything. I'm SUPPORTING the right to choose, which every born human has. I'm not removing any options from any female. I am supporting keeping BOTH. YOU are voting to remove one.

I am not voting to suppress your opinion, you have your opinion all day. I'm voting to make sure these people's rights are kept, and you are not. So you have no right to talk of freedom, because you are not for it.

If you're going to keep ignoring the explanations of the many as to why pro-choicers are not forcing beliefs, then you should stop saying we are, because it's ignorant after we've explained it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
did you just call me pumpkin? 😕 ok.....sweetcheeks?
by saying "i believe this, accept it" I am just saying that this is my stance on said issue. I am not trying to convert anyone here, I am just sticking to my guns. seriously, what would you think of someone who changed their way of thinking just to please you? sorry, I am not built like that. I have accepted my stance, and I am of gthe opinion that I am not a hypocrite. If you want to discuss this issue, it's pros and cons, let's have at it.

You aren't trying to convert, because you know that not everyone will, and I am not trying to convert you, because I respect your right to be pro-life. I do not respect any right to remove rights from others, you feel you have that right, and you do not.

You are assuming we are trying to make you pro-choice, we're not, or I'M not. I couldn't care any less. I'm just telling you that you are a hypocrite for saying "I'm not forcing my beliefs.". By banning abortion, you would be, and that is a fact.

So next time, check your argument at the gate, because it's not happening, and until you give an admission of hypocritical argument, you will not receive quarter from me, and I would imagine others too.

Sticking to your guns? HA! That's the one thing you aren't doing. "I enjoy freedom.", "I'd ban abortion.", "I stand for what I believe in.", "I'm no oppressive beliefs.". You're falling like bricks. You maintain the idea that you aren't being oppressive simply because you hate the idea of being one of "those people.", and maybe you aren't one of those people to such an extreme, but you're certainly one of them to an extent if you would ban abortion.

Stick to your guns and accept that if you HAD to stand by your belief on abortion, you would HAVE to be oppressive.

-AC

i believe in freedom as well. therefore i would like to exercise my freedom to vote for the legalization of slavery.

im just taking a stand for what i believe in: i should have the right to own black people. oh wait that was racist of me. i would also purchase some chinese and mexicans...to keep it multicultural and PC

Yeah, and I'll exercise my right to ban inter-racial relationships while we're at it.

What other ridiculous and oppressive bans can we do? Abortion? Oh wait, RJ has that covered.

-AC

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
The woman are force to have an abortion that is why.Why even give them that sort of choice to choose something as bad as kiling or not killing?here is a link btw.jm

http://www.deathroe.com/Pro-life_Answers/Answers.cfm?ID=1

http://www.deathroe.com/Pro-life_Answers/Answers.cfm?ID=15

http://www.deathroe.com/Pro-life_Answers/answers.cfm?ID=16

http://www.deathroe.com/Pro-life_Answers/Answers.cfm?ID=31

Thats the beauty of choice... she can choose to abort and terminate her pregnancy, or choose to let it go full term. No one is forcing these women to abort.

As far as those links.. I was just reading through those pages and come to the conclusion that who ever wrote that up is a moron. Not because they are prolife... because the comparisons they use to rationalize why they feel abortion should be illegal.

slavery... KKK killings? 🙄

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Sorry, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

You seek to circumscribe the dessert consumption of others?

Fascist.

HA!

Well, I don`t want to take part in this debate too much, as i don`t have firm view regarding abortion but if one takes a stand that abortion is murder, than there is no point in considering it a matter of choice, and "forcing" beliefs on others- after all law is all abut forcing beliefs- in cases like stealing and murder being illegal it coincides with beliefs that almost every human being holds. In case of abortion and euthanasia there is often clash of beliefs within the society , so the state has to take a stand.

It depends on what you consider fetus to be.

Originally posted by Lord Melkor
Well, I don`t want to take part in this debate too much, as i don`t have firm view regarding abortion but if one takes a stand that abortion is murder, than there is no point in considering it a matter of choice, and "forcing" beliefs on others- after all law is all abut forcing beliefs- in cases like stealing and murder being illegal it coincides with beliefs that almost every human being holds. In case of abortion and euthanasia there is often clash of beliefs within the society , so the state has to take a stand.

It depends on what you consider fetus to be.

If one takes a stand that abortion is murder then they're wrong from the start anyway, as proven a billion and two times in this thread.

-AC

its not up to any government in a democratic state to 'take a stand'. thats a dictatorship

You suggest that every state where abortion is not fully allowed is dictatorship?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
again, by voting prochoice you ae forcing your beliefs on prolifers.

This thread saddens me. 🙁
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
To kill or not to kill that is the woman's choice!That does not sound like a choice to me it sounds like murder.jm

Originally posted by Lord Melkor
You suggest that every state where abortion is not fully allowed is dictatorship?

This thread also makes me laugh. 😄

Originally posted by Lord Melkor
You suggest that every state where abortion is not fully allowed is dictatorship?

my implication was clear. misinterpret it how you wish since i cant possibly simplify it any more.

The scariest thing about the remark "Pro-choices force their beliefs on pro-lifers", is that he clearly believes people aren't allowed to remove rights to remove rights, which shouldn't even be there in the first place.

-AC

Well it kind of makes sense when you think about it.

If you'd just stop forcing your multitude of choices down people's throats, people would be free to be limited to only one course of action.

.......waaaiiiiit a second.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah, and I'll exercise my right to ban inter-racial relationships while we're at it.

What other ridiculous and oppressive bans can we do? Abortion? Oh wait, RJ has that covered.

-AC


busted......I am a one man army against abortion. hear me roar.....*burps* 😛

...and tacking one-liners to avoid debate. Banning that too.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
busted......I am a one man army against abortion. hear me roar.....*burps* 😛

No, you're a cretin who threw himself in at the deep end without knowing what you were talking about. You failed to even understand the difference between having a number of options, and having none.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
...and tacking one-liners to avoid debate. Banning that too.

-AC

tack on whatever you wish. I simply grew tired of the constant firing back and forth, the trading of jabs. I need time to recover, so save my seat, k? 😉

BTW: when I got to work, my boss and her boss were talking about abortion. I was about to join in when her boss burst into tears and locked herself in her office. apparently she had a miscarriage a year or so ago, and it is a very sensitive issue for her.

just thought I'd add that.

Why is that even relevant? She lost a baby she wanted, so she's upset.

So what? How does that add anything at all to this debate? Or were you planning to try to win the sympathy vote of child worship? Desperation tactics not appreciated and certainly not relevant. Besides, we have no proof any of that actually happened. Best not bring up irrelevant bs next time.

"Time to recover." pfft. You got proven bang wrong and what you need to be doing is admitting your hypocritical stance on the issue, but you won't do that.

-AC