Abortion

Originally posted by Whisper
How would you rteact if your wife or girlfriend was pregnant and then came back a few weeks later and said "I had an abortion. Are you OK with that?"

How is any of this relevant to your original claim of "Life begins at conception. Abortion is as bad as killing a 10 year old."?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Or Hitler, or Pol Pot, or Ed Gein, or you.

-AC

Originally posted by Whisper
How would you rteact if your wife or girlfriend was pregnant and then came back a few weeks later and said "I had an abortion. Are you OK with that?"

It's not about personal experience, it's about giving people a right to choose. I would in no way support something that takes away people's freedom just because I'd been affected by it.

Originally posted by Robtard
Point is, if he sees an abortion as "ending a life", why shouldn't he not want to ban them? E.g., you're against the death penalty(?), if it was reacted in the U.K. and then a bill was proposed to do away with the death penalty[again], would you not vote for it? Of course you would, because you're against state sponsored killing.

Wanting something ideally and actually acting it out in such a way as oppressing peoples' rights are two different ball parks, Rob.

I'd vote for it because I'm proposing someone has the right to live or at least not be killed for something we can't be sure they even did, and as seen in the thread, there's massively convincing arguments, monetarily and morally (Although subjective.) as to why the death penalty should not exist. It's a totally different subject. Killing a man because you think he did something wrong, and aborting a foetus; Two totally different things.

How is voting against the death penalty ANYTHING close to banning something free citizens have the right to do? Such as abortion? I'm curious as to how you made that leap.

Originally posted by Whisper
All your posts say black where others say white. You must have a very small penis or be angry with something.

I'm saying if there's white there's black, which is why it's stupid to say "What if the child had become great?".

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Or Hitler, or Pol Pot, or Ed Gein, or you.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Wanting something ideally and actually acting it out in such a way as oppressing people's rights are two different ball parks, Rob.

I'd vote for it because I'm proposing someone has the right to live, and as seen in the thread, there's massively convincing arguments, monetarily and morally (Although subjective.) as to why the death penalty should not exist. It's a totally different subject. Killing a man because you think he did something wrong, and aborting a foetus; Two totally different things.

How is voting against the death penalty ANYTHING close to banning something free citizens have the right to do? Such as abortion? I'm curious as to how you made that leap.

-AC

Sure, where I said:

if he sees an abortion as "ending a life" (above)

Originally posted by Whisper
I suppose that if I HAD been aborted then I wouldn't have to sit here and read your pish.

So we agree abortion can be good because it's not only an option that, just like adoption, can aid a female, but can also rid the world of potential moronbags like you.

-AC

Originally posted by Whisper
I suppose that if I HAD been aborted then I wouldn't have to sit here and read your pish.

We wouldn't have to read yours either.

Originally posted by Robtard
Sure, where I said:

if he sees an abortion as "ending a life"

So we're to cater to people based on the fact that they see things certain ways?

Some people see abortion as murder, what are we to do then? Cater to them too?

He's entitled to see it that way, but there's massive, MASSIVE evidence to suggest it's not ending a "life", and therefore it's not clean cut.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
For crying out loud. It's a hypothetical; If you had to vote, you'd vote to ban abortion. This would mean forcing your beliefs on others.

Can you not admit that? Do you honestly have that little spine?

Who's asking him to be okay with abortions? We're saying he hasn't got the right to ban them because he doesn't like them, and he doesn't.

No, are you? It doesn't alter the facts.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So we're to cater to people based on the fact that they see things certain ways?

Some people see abortion as murder, what are we to do then? Cater to them too?

He's entitled to see it that way, but there's massive, MASSIVE evidence to suggest it's not ending a "life", and therefore it's not clean cut.

-AC

Societies do so all the time.

No, "murder" by definition doesn't fit with what an abortion is, "killing" would be correct.

It isn't "clean cut" either way; that is the main issue.

I wouldn't personally do away with abortions all together if I had the power; there is room for improvement though imo.

Point on RJ though, you're asking him to admit he would do away with abortions which he see's as killing of a life and then saying "he's forcing his beliefs on others" in a demonizing way... that's a bit much don't you think? Most laws force someone's beliefs on others.

RJ, answer the question;

You'd ban abortion if you HAD to, right? Right. You've said so. With that established; Can you then admit that in such a situation, however unlikely, you would be prepared to force your beliefs on others in order to protect your own?

You would, as proven by "I'd ban abortion if I had to.", but I'm looking for at least some dignity from you in admitting it.

-AC

Originally posted by Whisper
So what if Jesus had been aborted? Or JFK? Or the guy who invented penicillin?

JFK: big fukking deal

Penicillin man: then someone else would have the patent

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
RJ, answer the question;

You'd ban abortion if you HAD to, right? Right. You've said so. With that established; Can you then admit that in such a situation, however unlikely, you would be prepared to force your beliefs on others in order to protect your own?

You would, as proven by "I'd ban abortion if I had to.", but I'm looking for at least some dignity from you in admitting it.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
funny thing is that you know the answer.

I said I'm looking for a bit of dignity from you, which would require you "sticking to guns", as you once said, and admitting it.

So me knowing the answer doesn't matter.

Are you going to keep dodging like a big coward? If you know you'd do it, and I know you'd do it, what's admitting it? Are you that afraid? Just remember this whenever you next utter the line "You never admit when you're wrong." to me. Because rest assured, I'll bring this up pretty fast.

-AC

Originally posted by Robtard

I wouldn't personally do away with abortions all together if I had the power; there is room for improvement though imo.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I said I'm looking for a bit of dignity from you, which would require you "sticking to guns", as you once said, and admitting it.

So me knowing the answer doesn't matter.

Are you going to keep dodging like a big coward? If you know you'd do it, and I know you'd do it, what's admitting it? Are you that afraid? Just remember this whenever you next utter the line "You never admit when you're wrong." to me. Because rest assured, I'll bring this up pretty fast.

-AC

Originally posted by Robtard
Societies do so all the time.

No, "murder" by definition doesn't fit with an what an abortions, "killing" would be correct.

Precisely. So what if they "see it that way."? As in, see it as murder? They're wrong, right? Exactly. So why does him seeing it as a "life" gain any more credibility? It's just more to discuss.

Originally posted by Robtard
It isn't "clean cut" either way; that is the main issue.

The ins and outs can be debated all day long, I'll agree. However, women should have the right to an abortion, because without any proof to either or, all it comes down to is "I think it's a life/life at conception/God's child, so it can't be aborted.", which isn't right to enforce as a law, which would also apply to - not only folks that disagree - but athiests, who don't even believe in the God who some would claim owns the child.

Originally posted by Robtard
I wouldn't personally do away with abortions all together if I had the power; there is room for improvement though imo.

There's lots to be discussed. I think fathers' rights do need to be addressed, but I think mothers' should have the final say.

Originally posted by Robtard
Point on RJ though, your asking him to admit he would do away with abortions which he see's as killing of a life and then saying "he's forcing his beliefs on others" in a demonizing way... that's a bit much don't you think? Most laws force someone's beliefs on others.

How is that relevant? He would be forcing his beliefs on others, and I'm asking him just to openly admit he would, not deny it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I just said that if forced I would vote prolife.

You said you'd vote to ban abortion, based on personal belief, which would require forcing beliefs on others. Something you said you wouldn't do, but would have to, in that case.

Will you at least admit that? Yes or no? Some "stick to guns" guy you are.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I never said I wasn't wrong, I just said that if forced I would vote prolife. But why would I be forced? This is a free country and I reserve the right to vote or not to vote.

Do you not see that the pro life stance is not a 'free' principle? That would take freedom away from the inhabitants of the country, so yes it's a free country, until the votes are counted.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Do you not see that the pro life stance is not a 'free' principle? That would take freedom away from the inhabitants of the country, so yes it's a free country, until the votes are counted.