Originally posted by ~Pielover~that is 100% your choice, and I respect it. and I would never try to make you believe what I believe.
For once, I agree with AC. Whilst I would, under most circumstances, not even consider abortion, I'm not going to force others into being unable to make that choice. Who am I to say Slutty Sue can kill her baby? Forcing my beliefs on her, which root primarily from religion, is unconstitutional and just plain wrong.Pro-Choice.
Originally posted by Rogue JediI had a big mac a couple weeks ago and it was rather good.
hey, you are the one who is advertising that you work at mcdonalds. dont get mad if people comment on it. besides, quarter pounders are yummy.
Ive been reading through the last few pages hanging on to every word.. Its actually been good reading.. I understand what you are saying RJ. Abortion is wrong... yes? Its fine to think so cuz we are free to think as we believe.
Me, where Ive been through 5 pregnancies, 1 was a miscarraige and the others full term. I chose not to abort.
My sister has had an abortion.. she has given birth to 3 children before, all of which live with their dad in a different city. She moved on with her life in the sense she got a job that she could support herself in.. a boyfriend that wasnt ready for children... but wouldnt wear a condom. They used the pull out method, and consequently she got pregnant... he found out and started punching her in the stomach... it was enough stress and trama that her body aborted the fetus. A year passed and another pregnancy occurred.. so they talked about it and she went in and had an abortion done... she wasnt in a situation where a baby should be brought in... thankfully she had that choice there and was able to do what was right for her and the fetus by not allowing it to grow in to a baby...
not trying to use a sympathy plea.. just talking and using that as an example...
if there were to ever be a time in the future where we the public were to vote on banning abortions... and if from that vote pro-lifers won banned abortions... then their beliefs are forced on us taking away our right to decide if terminating our pregnancies is right for us...
and also... I see how some people say that abortions are killing babies... well I know in some situations that by aborting the fetus, the mom saved a baby from being born into a place where it would be abused and neglected.
Sorry if Im rambling and not making sense. bag
AC: nice sig by the way. I dont know who that guy is but looks like he is coming out of the sig.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi🙄 Still you. It's not "a view," you are F-A-C-T-U-A-L-L-Y trying to impose your beliefs onto others in voting for prohibition of abortion based on your personal beliefs, as already explained by multiple people multiple times. You've stated multiple times you wouldn't impose your beliefs on others. Ergo you're a hypocrite. You putting your hands over your ears and shoving your head in the ground and going, "Lalalalalalala I don't believe it." doesn't change that.
I answered the question truthfully and with complete honesty.as for forcing my opinions on others, see my previous post. who's the hypocrite now?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
how can I accept what you say if I do not believe it?
Do you deny that we breathe air? That gravity exists? No? These are facts. As much a fact as banning abortion would be forcing your beliefs on others, so why deny this one? Why not accept "Ok, to have and protect my beliefs, should voting be necessary, I'd have to force those on others."? Because that is factually what you'd be doing, you seem to be the only one swimming in denial over this.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
what you are trying to push on me is the same as what you claim I would push on others. there is no ignorance, and I could give a rats ass what others call me.
Stop being an idiot. I'm not trying to force you to do anything, I'm asking you to be a man, stick to your guns (Like you so often claim.) and admit you'd do whatever it takes, including force your beliefs on others, to protect your own. If you'd ban abortion, that's exactly what you'd be doing.
I don't need you to agree, cos you are factually incorrect and everyone here sees it but you, your agreement isn't necessary cos you're wrong ANYWAY. I'm just seeing if you possess the courage of your convictions, and you do not. Because as proven many times, you have all the talk of Mike Tyson, and all the walk of Stephen Hawking.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
that is 100% your choice, and I respect it. and I would never try to make you believe what I believe.
But by voting to ban abortion you'd be forcing a woman to go along with it, because it'd be illegal, purely because you don't like the idea.
Do you still believe this is somehow not forcing your beliefs on people? You would support abortion being made illegal, she loses the right to choose, all because you don't like abortion. Explain to me right now how you believe that ISN'T forcing beliefs. Go on.
F.A.O: Anyone else.
In the event he dodges, ask him the same question.
-AC
Originally posted by xmarksthespotno, I am listening to everything you guys say. I am still of the opinion that I am not forcing my views on others, as you are attempting to do to me.
🙄 Still you. It's not "a view," you are F-A-C-T-U-A-L-L-Y trying to impose your beliefs onto others in voting for prohibition of abortion based on your personal beliefs, as already explained by multiple people multiple times. You've stated multiple times you wouldn't impose your beliefs on others. Ergo you're a hypocrite. You putting your hands over your ears and shoving your head in the ground and going, "Lalalalalalala I don't believe it." doesn't change that.
Originally posted by Shelbert Lemon
I had a big mac a couple weeks ago and it was rather good.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
besides, quarter pounders are yummy.
Originally posted by ~Pielover~
For once, I agree with AC. Whilst I would, under most circumstances, not even consider abortion, I'm not going to force others into being unable to make that choice. Who am I to say Slutty Sue can kill her baby? Forcing my beliefs on her, which root primarily from religion, is unconstitutional and just plain wrong.Pro-Choice.
Rogue Jedi, ~Pielover~ understands the concept many are attempting to show you. Why are you ignoring it?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
that is 100% your choice, and I respect it. and I would never try to make you believe what I believe.
Do you even realize that you don't have to personally agree with abortion to be pro-choice?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
no, I am listening to everything you guys say. I am still of the opinion that I am not forcing my views on others, as you are attempting to do to me.
I didn't actually believe you were this dense.
We're not trying to FORCE any views on you. YOU are FACTUALLY wrong, this is not a view. It's a fact.
Is it up for debate if the sun is hot, that if you stab yourself you'll bleed? No, these are not views, these are facts. As is voting to ban abortion a factual force of belief.
-AC
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi1) So then you're not being deliberately obtuse, you're actually just slow.
no, I am listening to everything you guys say. I am still of the opinion that I am not forcing my views on others, as you are attempting to do to me.
You stated you would based on your personal beliefs vote for prohibition of abortion.
->
Based on your personal belief that abortion is wrong you would make a severe imposition on others' i.e. women's access to abortion.
->
You would try and impose your personal beliefs on others.
Originally posted by Alpha Centaurithere is no denial, I just see things a certain way.
Do you deny that we breathe air? That gravity exists? No? These are facts. As much a fact as banning abortion would be forcing your beliefs on others, so why deny this one? Why not accept "Ok, to have and protect my beliefs, should voting be necessary, I'd have to force those on others."? Because that is factually what you'd be doing, you seem to be the only one swimming in denial over this.
Stop being an idiot. I'm not trying to force you to do anything, I'm asking you to be a man, stick to your guns (Like you so often claim.) and admit you'd do whatever it takes, including force your beliefs on others, to protect your own. If you'd ban abortion, that's exactly what you'd be doing.again with the insults? again with asking me to be a man? you are insinuating that you are more man than me, aren't you? if so, take a good long look in the mirror.
I don't need you to agree, cos you are factually incorrect and everyone here sees it but you, your agreement isn't necessary cos you're wrong ANYWAY. I'm just seeing if you possess the courage of your convictions, and you do not. Because as proven many times, you have all the talk of Mike Tyson, and all the walk of Stephen Hawking.has this turned into a pissing contest?
But by voting to ban abortion you'd be forcing her to go along with it, because it'd be illegal, purely because you don't like the idea.yes, I still believe I am not forcing my beliefs on people.Do you still believe this is somehow not forcing your beliefs on people? You would support abortion being made illegal, she loses the right to choose, all because you don't like abortion. Explain to me right now how you believe that ISN'T forcing beliefs. Go on.
F.A.O: Anyone else.whats the matter, can't fight your battles alone?In the event he dodges, ask him the same question.
-AC
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
there is no denial, I just see things a certain way.
Yes, as not fact. The problem there being; they are fact. Ergo; you're wrong, and won't admit it.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
again with the insults? again with asking me to be a man? you are insinuating that you are more man than me, aren't you? if so, take a good long look in the mirror.
You take it as an insult that I'm asking you to be a man? I'm simply asking you to walk like you talk, and every encounter we've had proves you cannot. You're a hypocrite and you're a dodger.
Funny how you suggest you're anti-insults, but whenever your manhood is questioned, you suggest people need to check themselves before insinuating they are more of a man than you, as if you're some template. I wasn't personally insinuating anything, but YOU previously said a man sticks by his guns, admits when he's wrong and accepts responsibility for things. So far I'm doing all of those and you are doing none.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
has this turned into a pissing contest?
It will if you let it. If you stopped spending your replies asking silly questions and instead spent them ANSWERING questions, it'd be better.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
yes, I still believe I am not forcing my beliefs on people.
Why deny fact?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
whats the matter, can't fight your battles alone?
Huh? I asked that in the event that you dodge, someone else asks, so you don't get away with it, and voila, you have dodged. I'll ask you again;
You claim you'd never force someone to believe as you do, but by voting to ban abortion you'd be forcing a woman to go along with it, because it'd be illegal, purely because you don't like the idea.
Do you still believe this is somehow not forcing your beliefs on people? You would support abortion being made illegal, she loses the right to choose, all because you don't like abortion. Explain to me right now how you believe that ISN'T forcing beliefs. Go on.
Can you do that, puppy? Can you explain why you still believe it ISN'T forcing beliefs?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
looks like a one liner to me....hmmmm.....why isn't he being called on it?
Because he's here contributing to debates all the time, and he's also right.
This debate is now you posting for the sake of posting. You refuse to explain yourself, you refuse to admit you are wrong, but you won't exit the debate. You'll stay here commenting on Big Macs.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriIt's not that I won't admit it, it's just that I have not been convinced of it.
Yes, as not fact. The problem there being; they are fact. Ergo; you're wrong, and won't admit it.
You take it as an insult that I'm asking you to be a man? I'm simply asking you to walk like you talk, and every encounter we've had proves you cannot. You're a hypocrite and you're a dodger.I am not "dodging" anything. you asked me to admit that I am forcing my beliefs on others, and I cannot, for I don't believe I am doing so.
Funny how you suggest you're anti-insults, but whenever your manhood is questioned, you suggest people need to check themselves before insinuating they are more of a man than you, as if you're some template. I wasn't personally insinuating anything, but YOU previously said a man sticks by his guns, admits when he's wrong and accepts responsibility for things. So far I'm doing all of those and you are doing none.me? a template? you are insinuating that you are more man than I am by telling me to be a man, and asking how much spine I have. And by refusing to admit that I believe I am wrong, despite the flak I am taking for it, shows a bit of manhood. I could just cower in a corner, but I can't do that. I have stated my beliefs and I will stand by them to the bitter end, or until someone here convinces me otherwise.
It will if you let it. If you stopped spending your replies asking silly questions and instead spent them ANSWERING questions, it'd be better.give me a question. ask and ye shall receive. I will give you brute honesty, as I see it.
Why deny fact?there you go again, passing off your views as law. have I ever done this here? I think not.
Huh? I asked that in the event that you dodge, someone else asks, so you don't get away with it, and voila, you have dodged. I'll ask you again;in response to your question: you claim that I am forcing my views. If this vote happened, and you voted prochoice, and prochoice won out in the end, aren't you in fact doing the same? I know there would be different reprecussions for either outcome, but, in principle, wouldn't you be doing the same? The answer you want, I cannot give you, because it is not my personal view. If this vote ever occured, there would have to be millions of people who have the same opinion as me, and millions that have the same opinion as you. If prochoice won, the prolifers would have no right to ***** and moan. Vice versa for the prochoicers. They would have to accept it and move on with life, not hang around and complain about it. So.....if the prolifers lost the vote? I would be like "Well, the public has spoken." And I would not lollygagg around making a mountain out of a molehill.[b]You claim you'd never force someone to believe as you do, but by voting to ban abortion you'd be forcing a woman to go along with it, because it'd be illegal, purely because you don't like the idea.
Do you still believe this is somehow not forcing your beliefs on people? You would support abortion being made illegal, she loses the right to choose, all because you don't like abortion. Explain to me right now how you believe that ISN'T forcing beliefs. Go on.
Can you do that, puppy? Can you explain why you still believe it ISN'T forcing beliefs?
-AC [/B]
I have explained myself thoroughly, but you still question me. I have no problem admitting when and if I am wrong, I have done so in the past, which is more than I can say for you, kittykat. And it was a quarter pounder, you dolt.This debate is now you posting for the sake of posting. You refuse to explain yourself, you refuse to admit you are wrong, but you won't exit the debate. You'll stay here commenting on Big Macs.
-AC
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
in response to your question: you claim that I am forcing my views. If this vote happened, and you voted prochoice, and prochoice won out in the end, aren't you in fact doing the same? I know there would be different reprecussions for either outcome, but, in principle, wouldn't you be doing the same? The answer you want, I cannot give you, because it is not my personal view. If this vote ever occured, there would have to be millions of people who have the same opinion as me, and millions that have the same opinion as you. If prochoice won, the prolifers would have no right to ***** and moan. Vice versa for the prochoicers. They would have to accept it and move on with life, not hang around and complain about it. So.....if the prolifers lost the vote? I would be like "Well, the public has spoken." And I would not lollygagg around making a mountain out of a molehill.
This one post proves idiocy inexplicable through words of my own.
Do you really think if pro life won that would be the end of it, people would just accept it and move on? It's taking away a choice, because a group of people don't like the idea of it. That is them forcing their opinion on others. Pro choice is not taking away anything, it's saying both groups of people are entitled to their beliefs and putting faith in their personal judgment. This is not forcing opinion.
Originally posted by ~Pielover~
For once, I agree with AC. Whilst I would, under most circumstances, not even consider abortion, I'm not going to force others into being unable to make that choice. Who am I to say Slutty Sue can kill her baby? Forcing my beliefs on her, which root primarily from religion, is unconstitutional and just plain wrong.Pro-Choice.
Almost, you almost had it, then the s**t comment spoiled it
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It's not that I won't admit it, it's just that I have not been convinced of it.
If you're going to ignore fact, there's probably not much that can convince you of anything.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I am not "dodging" anything. you asked me to admit that I am forcing my beliefs on others, and I cannot, for I don't believe I am doing so.
But we have all proven you are, it's simple logic. We're not forcing you to admit it because you're wrong even if you do not, but I AM asking you to, in order to see if you possess a shred of dignity.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
me? a template? you are insinuating that you are more man than I am by telling me to be a man, and asking how much spine I have. And by refusing to admit that I believe I am wrong, despite the flak I am taking for it, shows a bit of manhood. I could just cower in a corner, but I can't do that. I have stated my beliefs and I will stand by them to the bitter end, or until someone here convinces me otherwise.
No, refusing to admit you are wrong against proven fact is idiocy. It's not cool and it's not manly, it's dumb. Like if you were to continually deny we breathe air. If it was a subjective debate, fine, but this area is not. Voting, by definition, is forcing beliefs on others. You are no an exception.
You seem to be of the very hilarious belief that sticking to a proven wrong belief makes you cool or manly, it doesn't, it makes you an idiot. "Look, here's proof the Sun is hot.", "I don't see it that way.", "But we're proving it fact.", "So? I'm not convinced.". That's exactly like what you're doing.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
give me a question. ask and ye shall receive. I will give you brute honesty, as I see it.
As YOU see it, but in this case, it does not come down to how YOU or ANYONE sees it. Voting against something and having it passed is attempting and/or succeeding in forcing your beliefs on others.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
there you go again, passing off your views as law. have I ever done this here? I think not.
Cos you're a fool who thinks everything is opinion and wouldn't know the difference between fact and opinion if it raped your eye socket.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
in response to your question: you claim that I am forcing my views. If this vote happened, and you voted prochoice, and prochoice won out in the end, aren't you in fact doing the same? I know there would be different reprecussions for either outcome, but, in principle, wouldn't you be doing the same?
My beliefs are that nobody should be forced to do anything, so the purpose of a successful pro-choice vote would not be to force any beliefs, but to make sure people can follow their own with as many options as possible, and this has been explained to your nigh-impenetrable skull about a million times.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The answer you want, I cannot give you, because it is not my personal view. If this vote ever occured, there would have to be millions of people who have the same opinion as me, and millions that have the same opinion as you. If prochoice won, the prolifers would have no right to ***** and moan. Vice versa for the prochoicers. They would have to accept it and move on with life, not hang around and complain about it. So.....if the prolifers lost the vote? I would be like "Well, the public has spoken." And I would not lollygagg around making a mountain out of a molehill.
We would have the right to moan, because why should anyone's girlfriend be forced to not do something she has the right to because YOU lot dislike it? If pro-choicers won, people could STILL freely do what YOU want them to, adoption etc, but they'd also have the other option of abortion. Please understand this and stop getting the stances twisted, then claim that anyone is wrong for calling you stupid.
You dodged my question AGAIN;
You claim you'd never force someone to believe as you do, but by voting to ban abortion you'd be forcing a woman to go along with it, because it'd be illegal, purely because you don't like the idea.
Do you still believe this is somehow not forcing your beliefs on people? You would support abortion being made illegal, she loses the right to choose, all because you don't like abortion. Explain to me right now how you believe that ISN'T forcing beliefs. Go on.
I'm not asking for admission, I'm asking for you to explain why you do not believe you are forcing your beliefs on people. You seem to think you aren't despite fact saying otherwise; so why?
Can you not do that? Is this another case where I'll have to ask you ten times just so you have an excuse to post by dancing around the question? "Give me any question, I'll answer it bluntly.". Bs, you never do, you're a coward.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I have no problem admitting when and if I am wrong, I have done so in the past, which is more than I can say for you, kittykat. And it was a quarter pounder, you dolt.
Oh hush, little simpleton. You evidently do have a massive problem admitting when you're wrong, seeing as you are ignoring blatant fact, clear explanations and many more points of evidence to avoid doing so.
"But I don't think I'm wrong.", but you are. You're not wrong because I say so, you're wrong because it's a fact that you're wrong. Thankfully, as said, I do not NEED you to admit it, since admit it or not, it's still fact. YOU however, should have the common decency and spine to admit your truth in the face of fact proving you wrong, but you will not, and it's not a matter of telling what we want to hear. It's a matter of not being an idiot and denying fact.
So you be a good poster...I mean...citizen, and either start paying attention to the debate, or leave it and let the real arguments be put forth by people who actually have a clue. I understand your on-going search for GDF acceptance, but it's tiring when you won't conduct yourself properly and stink of ignorance.
-AC