Originally posted by ODG
Sorry if this sounds like a biting indictment, but if posters just want to have an arbitrary set of standards for Marvel/DC and another arbitrary set of standards for manga, just say it. Blame cultural differences, whatever. But let's stop acting like manga is inherently more sillier than DC/Marvel, or manga never quantifies character feats, or manga uses different rules for retcons.And if you won't drop the act, whatever.
Just don't insult my intelligence by accusing me of being disingenuous.
I actually agree with this and well said btw.
Originally posted by h1a8But if he wanted to hit somebody at [FT]L speed, he could do this as it's well within his capabilities, iyo, right? Or do you think the drag inside the atmosphere is so big, that even though he can accelerate to span light-years, he cannot reach anywhere near a fraction of that [seemingly] top speed in the atmosphere [i.e. Lightspeed/FTL]?
Correct but Sentry doesn't fight like that. He's not going to circle around to build up speed before striking.
Originally posted by ODG
Sorry if this sounds like a biting indictment, but if posters just want to have an arbitrary set of standards for Marvel/DC and another arbitrary set of standards for manga, just say it. Blame cultural differences, whatever. But let's stop acting like manga is inherently more sillier than DC/Marvel, or manga never quantifies character feats, or manga uses different rules for retcons.And if you won't drop the act, whatever.
Just don't insult my intelligence by accusing me of being disingenuous.
You're not wrong. I think it's the way the argument is debated that leads to the shittiness. Not necessarily bias
Originally posted by Sin I AM
You're not wrong. I think it's the way the argument is debated that leads to the shittiness. Not necessarily bias
People latch on to whatever evidence is convenient to them at the time, just to reject it the moment it becomes inconvenient.
The issue is that people are under the impression that versus debating is subjective. Or more specifically it should become subject when it becomes harder to determine the outcome. Because no one is under the impression that the Punisher can beat Thor.
Originally posted by Philosophía
But if he wanted to hit somebody at [FT]L speed, he could do this as it's well within his capabilities, iyo, right? Or do you think the drag inside the atmosphere is so big, that even though he can accelerate to span light-years, he cannot reach anywhere near a fraction of that [seemingly] top speed in the atmosphere [i.e. Lightspeed/FTL]?
He's not going to think about that. So within his capabilities is irrelevant. Sentry will blitz though.
You can reach any speed in a vacuum with even a small acceleration.
But in an atmosphere you are limited astronomically.
Originally posted by h1a8How many appearances did Death Seed Sentry have? 6? Fewer?
Reread my post, you left out critical words (circle around). Sentry will blitz straight on though. He has 0.5km to build up speed.
How many fights did he have? 3?
And one of those was specifically him reaching FTL off panel before entering the page and blitzing Thor.
Originally posted by h1a8You claimed that the rules limit the battlefield to .5 km, which is wrong.
Then how can the rule, no leaving the battlefield be applied? How far away can you go without leaving the battlefield?
You claimed that Sentry doesn't fight by building speed and then blitzing people, which is wrong.
You now insist that he must move in a .5 km line and that you can calculate his acceleration, which is laughable.
As usual, you don't "debate", you just troll.
Originally posted by Smurph
You claimed that the rules limit the battlefield to .5 km, which is wrong.You claimed that Sentry doesn't fight by building speed and then blitzing people, which is wrong.
You now insist that he must move in a .5 km line and that you can calculate his acceleration, which is laughable.
As usual, you don't "debate", you just troll.
I think that H1 is referring to starting distance in relation to acceleration and how much speed he’d be able to build up until impact. He did raise an interesting question as well. With Sentry’s limited to public knowledge of Saitama, is it possible that he would simply bulrush like he did during Ww Hulk?
However, it’s kind of a mute point to make, because this is Death Seed Sentry who can achieve FTL speeds well before reaching half a kilometer. DS Sentry is as close to Toon-Ville logic that you can get in a Marvel character. Look at how fast he went while nearly killing Thor with the speed that he traveled, and from what I saw, he achieved that speed nearly as quickly as he grabbed Thor.
Originally posted by StoicIf you scroll back and read the discussion between h1 and DS, h1 and myself, and now h1 and Phil, you'll see that all h1 is doing is selectively misinterpreting rules and scans in order to support his argument that DS Sentry is bullet-catching-speed at best. This allows him to avoid quantifying Saitama's feats because he can just vaguely categorize them as better than the handgun feat.
I think that H1 is referring to starting distance in relation to acceleration and how much speed he’d be able to build up until impact. He did raise an interesting question as well. With Sentry’s limited to public knowledge of Saitama, is it possible that he would simply bulrush like he did during Ww Hulk?However, it’s kind of a mute point to make, because this is Death Seed Sentry who can achieve FTL speeds well before reaching half a kilometer. DS Sentry is as close to Toon-Ville logic that you can get in a Marvel character. Look at how fast he went while nearly killing Thor with the speed that he traveled, and from what I saw, he achieved that speed nearly as quickly as he grabbed Thor.
And to be clear, the only reason "quantifying" matters is because h1 et al pretend that their conclusions are objective.
That said, I agree: DS Sentry is his own beast.
Originally posted by ODG
Sorry if this sounds like a biting indictment, but if posters just want to have an arbitrary set of standards for Marvel/DC and another arbitrary set of standards for manga, just say it. Blame cultural differences, whatever. But let's stop acting like manga is inherently more sillier than DC/Marvel, or manga never quantifies character feats, or manga uses different rules for retcons.And if you won't drop the act, whatever.
Just don't insult my intelligence by accusing me of being disingenuous.
Actually, agreed. Although, nowhere did I say it was sillier or whatever. All I said was that if manga fans wished to come onto a comic Vs forum, and use comic characters, then manga should have the same scrutiny.
If I posted scans of Lobo fighting as tornado, for example, and said based on that, he was faster than Hulk - that would be laughed at, and rightly so.
As for quantifying the afterimages, I didn't even try to, because if you read my posts, I said it was impossible to quantify. H1 knows this too, hence why you see him silent on the matter.
And btw, the reason for the speed focus? It's because Carv and h1 have been focussing on it. I know you don't log in much these days, but this ain't your first rodeo.
@h1:
Originally posted by -Pr-
Yes. As long as you're actively involved in the battle somehow, it's not technically BFR.
Also, CIS is off. PIS is off (by default). So arguing what DS Sentry does or does not do in his 2 or so appearance, when one of them is famous for him accelerating and blitzing Thor, is wrong.
Originally posted by Smurph
If you scroll back and read the discussion between h1 and DS, h1 and myself, and now h1 and Phil, you'll see that all h1 is doing is selectively misinterpreting rules and scans in order to support his argument that DS Sentry is bullet-catching-speed at best. This allows him to avoid quantifying Saitama's feats because he can just vaguely categorize them as better than the handgun feat.And to be clear, the only reason "quantifying" matters is because h1 et al pretend that their conclusions are objective.
That said, I agree: DS Sentry is his own beast.
Oh. Sorry brother. I get it.
Originally posted by Stoic
I think that H1 is referring to starting distance in relation to acceleration and how much speed he’d be able to build up until impact. He did raise an interesting question as well. With Sentry’s limited to public knowledge of Saitama, is it possible that he would simply bulrush like he did during Ww Hulk?However, it’s kind of a mute point to make, because this is Death Seed Sentry who can achieve FTL speeds well before reaching half a kilometer. DS Sentry is as close to Toon-Ville logic that you can get in a Marvel character. Look at how fast he went while nearly killing Thor with the speed that he traveled, and from what I saw, he achieved that speed nearly as quickly as he grabbed Thor.
It's inconclusive at best whether DS Sentry can obtain light speed within 0.5km.
The scan shows Sentry already had built up speed right before he grabbed Thor. How fast was Sentry going right before he grabbed Thor? We don't know.
We can't say for sure how long it took to reach light speed.
Wolverine seems to utter a phrase ("What's that?"😉 when Sentry is hundreds of miles away. That means Sentry covered hundreds of miles in about a split second while already being supersonic. That's not really fast.
Once in space (no drag forces) Sentry's acceleration increases exponentially. It's plausible that he can achieve light speed within a second or so (in space). But in an atmosphere he is supersonic for at least a couple of seconds.
Look at the scan again. Tell me I'm wrong. What am I missing?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Actually, agreed. Although, nowhere did I say it was sillier or whatever. All I said was that if manga fans wished to come onto a comic Vs forum, and use comic characters, then manga should have the same scrutiny.If I posted scans of Lobo fighting as tornado, for example, and said based on that, he was faster than Hulk - that would be laughed at, and rightly so.
As for quantifying the afterimages, I didn't even try to, because if you read my posts, I said it was impossible to quantify. H1 knows this too, hence why you see him silent on the matter.
And btw, the reason for the speed focus? It's because Carv and h1 have been focussing on it. I know you don't log in much these days, but this ain't your first rodeo.
@h1:
Also, CIS is off. PIS is off (by default). So arguing what DS Sentry does or does not do in his 2 or so appearance, when one of them is famous for him accelerating and blitzing Thor, is wrong.
It's not impossible to quantify just because you don't know how. Faulty logic. If the scene was to be perceived from a normal human then it is definitely possible to quantify. Just find out how long a single image of an object will last once it instantly leaves from a spot.
One of the scans you posted stated 1/24 of a second which makes some sense because movies can not have framerates less than that without appearing choppy. So is Saitama is operating each image at 1/24 of a second then how fast does he have to be in order to have hundreds of images simultaneously appear?
Refere to my first sentence.