Originally posted by Philosophía
My friend, you're the one who tried to pick on the battlefield saying it's only 0.5km [proven incorrect], then said you will never think of building up speed because your spades games show you're not that good at deductions [I even offered to play spades with you, btw], and now we're in an amusing logical disaster, in which you choose a strategy which you know will make you lose instantly. I've consistently asked you the same questions to see how your brain works. It is very different, I admit.The operating conditions of this discussion at the moment is that you know everything about Saitama, and you choose a starting position bullrush that you explicitly say that you know will fail. Thus, we can exclude that as a starting strategy, since no sane person would choose to fail.
Btw, in most matches, as the forum rules state, you have basic knowledge of your opponent -- so if there's an opponent who is not Professor Xavier or Franklin Richards, you'd still never want to build up speed and hit at [FT]L?
Btw x2, how much distance would Sentry need to achieve [FT]L by flying straight on, in your estimation?
You basically ignored everything I said. That's a form of trolling. We can't continue the discussion if you are going to continue to ignore my points without addressing them.
You change the goalposts from the actual forum rules (Basic knowledge is what the GENERAL population of Saitama's Earth knows about him) to we know everything about Saitama. I accepted that.
If there is no way to win, and you know that, prior to battle, then there is no optimal strategy. The question becomes meaningless.
Logically, not knowing about your opponent (which is this case) implies that a straight blitz is your best bet.
According to the bullet catch feat Sentry would need over 130,000 miles to reach light speed. Or travelimg for 4.6 seconds in total.
Originally posted by h1a8H1, my velvet brained best friend, I didn't ignore anything. I told you from the start I'm not talking about Saitama:
You basically ignored everything I said. That's a form of trolling. We can't continue the discussion if you are going to continue to ignore my points without addressing them.You change the goalposts from the actual forum rules (Basic knowledge is what the GENERAL population of Saitama's Earth knows about him) to we know everything about Saitama. I accepted that.
If there is no way to win, and you know that, prior to battle, then there is no optimal strategy. The question becomes meaningless.Logically, not knowing about your opponent (which is this case) implies that a straight blitz is your best bet.
According to the bullet catch feat Sentry would need over 130,000 miles to reach light speed. Or travelimg for 4.6 seconds in total.
in fact you can ignore this in relation to Saitama [for whom I don't yet have enough information to honestly compare], but treat it as a general question.
In most matches, as the forum rules state, you have basic knowledge of your opponent -- so if there's an opponent who is not Professor Xavier or Franklin Richards, you'd still never want to build up speed and hit at [FT]L?
Originally posted by h1a8Interesting. Interesting. Very interesting.
According to the bullet catch feat Sentry would need over 130,000 miles to reach light speed. Or travelimg for 4.6 seconds in total.
Are there any Sentry feats you're aware of, in your vast knowledge of the character, where he doesn't need to fly a distance that big to achieve that speed?
Originally posted by Philosophía
H1, my velvet brained best friend, I didn't ignore anything. I told you from the start I'm not talking about Saitama:I just want to see your deductive capabilities in regards to tactics you'd apply when in full control of Sentry's capabilities. You continued to bring OPM up - admitting that, with full knowledge of the character, the tactic you'd apply is one that'd get you instantly killed/KOd against Saitama, which got my attention of why you, with your bizarro Reed Richards towering intellect, still chose to do it. I see now that you don't think there's anything you can do as Sentry to Saitama to win, no strategy you can think of -- so you might aswell just die as fast as you can. A suicide, if you will. I assume you've scoured all of Sentry's appearances as you're known for having well read opinions and, harnessing your significantly developed deductive and creative abilities, there's just no way to win. Ok -- but that's not what I actually asked. My question is more general.
In most matches, as the forum rules state, you have basic knowledge of your opponent -- so if there's an opponent who is not Professor Xavier or Franklin Richards, you'd still never want to build up speed and hit at [FT]L?
Interesting. Interesting. Very interesting.Are there any Sentry feats you're aware of, in your vast knowledge of the character, where he doesn't need to fly a distance that big to achieve that speed?
Tbh I don't know what you are asking.
You said we are not talking about Saitama. Who are we talking about then? State your question in the most direct, compact, and clear way. No added buff.
The distance from Earth to moon is over 230,000 miles on average.
Sentry would hit light speed before reaching the moon. Note: That calculation was from his bullet feat, which occurred in an atmosphere.
In space, I'll accept that he can reach light speed in less distance and time.
I don't know of any feat that absolutely shows (without a doubt) that Sentry hit light speed in less distance or less time. The Thor feat is unclear. We know Sentry was supersonic when hitting Thor and We know Sentry was already in space when it was stated he achieved faster than light travel. So everything else is speculative.
Do you have any feats that show Sentry reaching light speed before traveling at that distance?
Originally posted by h1a8Your head must be spinning given the contortionism, I see.
Tbh I don't know what you are asking.
You said we are not talking about Saitama. Who are we talking about then? State your question in the most direct, compact, and clear way. No added buff.
Well, let me recap - as we progressively got you to answer more questions and acknowledge facts, whether it's regarding the battlefield [which is not what you assumed it would be], or Sentry's capability to reach a [FT]L bullrush [which you eventually agreed is possible], or whether this tactic would ever come to your mind [apparently, it never will], we settled on a last question regarding this strategy, which, if I telepathically induced into your mind as possible [otherwise it would never get in]-- given your innate fear of opponents activating nebulous powers, but the basic knowledge of opponents implicit in vs threads, would you use the building up speed before bullrushing strategy against somebody, or would you always spastically [goddamn I love this word] bullrush your opponent from 500m?
Regarding Sentry and him needing 130,000 miles to reach lightspeed, can you give me the math that made you reach this conclusion? I'm very curious.
Originally posted by MrMind
thanks for including me *******
Location: Scatman
You're just outside the picture.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Your head must be spinning given the contortionism, I see.Well, let me recap - as we progressively got you to answer more questions and acknowledge facts, whether it's regarding the battlefield [which is not what you assumed it would be], or Sentry's capability to reach a [FT]L bullrush [which you eventually agreed is possible], or whether this tactic would ever come to your mind [apparently, it never will], we settled on a last question regarding this strategy, which, if I telepathically induced into your mind as possible [otherwise it would never get in]-- given your innate fear of opponents activating nebulous powers, but the basic knowledge of opponents implicit in vs threads, would you use the building up speed before bullrushing strategy against somebody, or would you always spastically [goddamn I love this word] bullrush your opponent from 500m?
Regarding Sentry and him needing 130,000 miles to reach lightspeed, can you give me the math that made you reach this conclusion? I'm very curious.
You're just outside the picture.
I posted this on page 15 but I'll post again. Let's examine Sentry's bullet catch feat.
The handgun can fire bullets at around 1200ft/s (about the speed of a 9mm glock 17). The muzzle was about 10 inches away from professor's head and Sentry was about 10 feet away from muzzle, prior to the shot. Sentry stopped the bullet about 2 inches away from professor's head (i.e. it traveled about 8 inches total).
The time it takes the bullet to go 8 inches is t = d/v = (8/12ft)/(1200ft/s) = 1/1800 of a second.
Since d = 1/2 a t^2 then
Sentry accelerated (on average) at
a = 2d/t^2 = 2(10ft)/(1/1800s)^s = 64,800,000ft/s^2
So with this same acceleration, Sentry can travel 500m (or 1640 ft) in
t=sqrt (2d/a) = sqrt(2x1640/64800000) = 0.007 seconds (7 milliseconds).
And reach a final speed of
v = at = 64,800,000(0.007) ft/s or 460,000ft/s (mach 409)
Under the same acceleration, Sentry can obtain lightspeed in about
t = v/a = (186282x5280ft/s) / (64800000ft/s^2) = 15 seconds
Or in a distance of
d = 1/2 a t^2 = 1/2 (64800000)(15)^2 ft = 7.29e9 ft = 1.3 million miles ( I was wrong with the 130,000 mile estimate)
In space, he should reach lightspeed in way less distance and time. I can calculate the exact distance and time later (it's a little complicated). That's assuming that drag existed in the bullet catch feat. If it didn't then those numbers also go for space travel too.
Originally posted by h1a8Nice, nice.
I posted this on page 15 but I'll post again. Let's examine Sentry's bullet catch feat.The handgun can fire bullets at around 1200ft/s (about the speed of a 9mm glock 17). The muzzle was about 10 inches away from professor's head and Sentry was about 10 feet away from muzzle, prior to the shot. Sentry stopped the bullet about 2 inches away from professor's head (i.e. it traveled about 8 inches total).
The time it takes the bullet to go 8 inches is t = d/v = (8/12ft)/(1200ft/s) = 1/1800 of a second.
Since d = 1/2 a t^2 then
Sentry accelerated (on average) at
a = 2d/t^2 = 2(10ft)/(1/1800s)^s = 64,800,000ft/s^2So with this same acceleration, Sentry can travel 500m (or 1640 ft) in
t=sqrt (2d/a) = sqrt(2x1640/64800000) = 0.007 seconds (7 milliseconds).
And reach a final speed of
v = at = 64,800,000(0.007) ft/s or 460,000ft/s (mach 409)Under the same acceleration, Sentry can obtain lightspeed in about
t = v/a = (186282x5280ft/s) / (64800000ft/s^2) = 15 secondsOr in a distance of
d = 1/2 a t^2 = 1/2 (64800000)(15)^2 ft = 7.29e9 ft = 1.3 million miles ( I was wrong with the 130,000 mile estimate)In space, he should reach lightspeed in way less distance and time. I can calculate the exact distance and time later (it's a little complicated). That's assuming that drag existed in the bullet catch feat. If it didn't then those numbers also go for space travel too.
Can you also do it for space, please? I'm just curious.
I like how the writer took all of this into account when writing the bullet feat.
But when writing the DS Sentry scene, according to h1, he forgot all about sonic booms. Very interesting.
I also like how it's been nearly 40 pages, and still no answer to the question 'how fast do you have to be to create afterimages '.
Originally posted by MrMind
we need astner and magnon to check if the math is correct
For instance, if you want to figure out the initial kinetic energy of an object that's thrown up in the air and reaches a certain height (not accounting for drag, etc.) you have these formulas.
You combine the above expressions, do the algebra, deduce the proper formula, and then you plug in the numbers...you learn this in high school.
This way you can easily follow the thought-process of whoever has written it without your eyes starting to melt, and you don't have to worry about figuring out values that don't matter, e.g. m in this case is completely irrelevant.
Originally posted by AstnerSignificant digits are irrelevant here because nothing here is measured to any known precision.
I'm not reading any of these calculations where people produce numbers that then they plug into other formulas, especially when people don't seem to understand how significant digits work.For instance, if you want to figure out the initial kinetic energy of an object that's thrown up in the air and reaches a certain height (not accounting for drag, etc.) you have these formulas.
You combine the above expressions, do the algebra, deduce the proper formula, and then you plug in the numbers...you learn this in high school.
This way you can easily follow the thought-process of whoever has written it without your eyes starting to melt, and you don't have to worry about figuring out values that don't matter, e.g. m in this case is completely irrelevant.
Anyway, why post irrelevant stuff about kinetic energy and falling or rising objects?
We are discussing how fast Sentry is (find his acceleration) based off his feats (especially the bullet catch one).
Originally posted by DarkSaint85After images can't be created just by moving fast in a continuous direction (like throwing a single punch or flying/running to a particular location). After images shown in comics, where this is occurring, don't really exist for the characters involved in the story. In other words, if you were a fly on the wall (or human in the room) watching Robin punching (in the scan you posted) then you would not see any after images by him. The images drawn are just the artist way of showing the audience of the actual sequence of punches Robin made with minimal drawing (save space and time) and using a known appeasing artistic style.
I like how the writer took all of this into account when writing the bullet feat.But when writing the DS Sentry scene, according to h1, he forgot all about sonic booms. Very interesting.
I also like how it's been nearly 40 pages, and still no answer to the question 'how fast do you have to be to create afterimages '.
Now if a character is actually purposely creating afterimages in the comic for other characters to see (it is mentioned or alluded to in the comic) then that is something totally different. Remember that moving too fast in a continuous direction will create blurs (not solid distinct images) or make the object invisible (like a bullet).
So to do that takes tremendous speed. Here is my attempt at a calculation.
Let's say that a character had sufficient superspeed and wanted to create 2 solid distinct images of himself. How would he do it?
Well the character has to be in one position and allow photons to bounce off him (while being at a complete stop) in order to be headed toward the viewer to see. Then the character has to quickly leave that position head to the next position and allow more photons to bounce off him (again, while character is at a complete stop). Doing a little research, I found that it takes humans anywhere from 70-130 milliseconds to create and identify a complex image in their brain.
Note: The time it takes to decide and initiate a response adds to this time.
This means that the character must travel to his 2nd location BEFORE the 70-130ms time limit elapses. Otherwise, the viewer would identify that the character is no longer there. So if the 2 positions are 100ft apart then the character has to travel 200ft in less than 130ms (at slowest). That's about 1500ft/s at the slowest.
Note: This is average speed and not the actual fastest the character was moving between trips. The character had to accelerate to a much larger speed than this calculated average speed during the first half the trip and then slow down during the other half in order to make a complete stop. In other words, the character can generate far faster velocity if they didn't decide to slow down halfway between the trip.
Now, that's just 2 images that are 100ft apart. What about 3 images where each image is 100ft from it's adjacent image? Basically the character has to travel from the 1st position to the 2nd and then to the 3rd and then back to the 1st in less than 130ms. That's 2 times the distanced traveled (if the images are lined up ) in less than 130ms. In other words, that's 2x faster than creating 2 images. To create 4 images, same stipulations, takes 3x faster speed. We can go on and on with this same pattern.
So 10 lined up side to side images would be 9x faster. Just imagine hundreds of images, if not thousands. Just imagine that character didn't spend half the time slowing down. That character is insanely faster than even that. Or add the fact that superhuman characters with super fast perceptions are seeing these afterimages (they have a far lower create and identity time in their brain) then the speed is astronomically more.
Originally posted by h1a8
After images can't be created just by moving fast in a continuous direction (like throwing a single punch or flying/running to a particular location). After images shown in comics, where this is occurring, don't really exist for the characters involved in the story. In other words, if you were a fly on the wall (or human in the room) watching Robin punching (in the scan you posted) then you would not see any after images by him. The images drawn are just the artist way of showing the audience of the actual sequence of punches Robin made with minimal drawing (save space and time) and using a known appeasing artistic style.Now if a character is actually purposely creating afterimages in the comic for other characters to see (it is mentioned or alluded to in the comic) then that is something totally different. Remember that moving too fast in a continuous direction will create blurs (not solid distinct images) or make the object invisible (like a bullet).
So to do that takes tremendous speed. Here is my attempt at a calculation.
Let's say that a character had sufficient superspeed and wanted to create 2 solid distinct images of himself. How would he do it?
Well the character has to be in one position and allow photons to bounce off him (while being at a complete stop) in order to be headed toward the viewer to see. Then the character has to quickly leave that position head to the next position and allow more photons to bounce off him (again, while character is at a complete stop). Doing a little research, I found that it takes humans anywhere from 70-130 milliseconds to create and identify a complex image in their brain.
Note: The time it takes to decide and initiate a response adds to this time.
This means that the character must travel to his 2nd location BEFORE the 70-130ms time limit elapses. Otherwise, the viewer would identify that the character is no longer there. So if the 2 positions are 100ft apart then the character has to travel 200ft in less than 130ms (at slowest). That's about 1500ft/s at the slowest.
Note: This is average speed and not the actual fastest the character was moving between trips. The character had to accelerate to a much larger speed than this calculated average speed during the first half the trip and then slow down during the other half in order to make a complete stop. In other words, the character can generate far faster velocity if they didn't decide to slow down halfway between the trip.
Now, that's just 2 images that are 100ft apart. What about 3 images where each image is 100ft from it's adjacent image? Basically the character has to travel from the 1st position to the 2nd and then to the 3rd and then back to the 1st in less than 130ms. That's 2 times the distanced traveled (if the images are lined up ) in less than 130ms. In other words, that's 2x faster than creating 2 images. To create 4 images, same stipulations, takes 3x faster speed. We can go on and on with this same pattern.
So 10 lined up side to side images would be 9x faster. Just imagine hundreds of images, if not thousands. Just imagine that character didn't spend half the time slowing down. That character is insanely faster than even that. Or add the fact that superhuman characters with super fast perceptions are seeing these afterimages (they have a far lower create and identity time in their brain) then the speed is astronomically more.
Sou desuka?
Post the scans where this happens.