Saitama runs the marvel hardcore gauntlet

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
i never argued that saitama couldn't potentially reach those levels again under the right circumstances. in fact i said the exact opposite-

what i'm saying is that current saitama doesnt just instantly know how to reach those levels again..... because he never did in the first place. his fight with garou was retconned.

He doesn't need to know how to reach levels he's already at.
You are assuming he returned to original levels without proof (because it doesn't make sense to).

He has the same body he had when he gained those levels. Proof is him bringing the core back (it too would be erased otherwise)

Originally posted by Classic NES
Ok, fair enough I agree.

I and Deadpool (and by extension, yourself) agree on this. I said this ages ago:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Pretty much.

Add in a physical foe like Garou, with skills to copy, add in the loss of Genos, the loss of Tareo, the promise to Tareo, the BFR to Io (so he can cut loose), then sure, Current Clothed Saitama can eventually ramp up and replicate Future Naked Saitama showings.

But current Saitama isn't doing any of that, without those conditions. Different skillset, different power levels.

And the above post was in response to Galan:

Originally posted by Galan007
Regarding Saitama:

From an in-universe pov, his entire fight with Garou was effectively retconned, as the battle never happened thanks to the time travel hijinks he preformed... And Saitama himself seems to have reverted back into the mindset(and power-level) he walked around in before the fight(because he technically never had to access those levels in the first place.) That said, the feats themselves are still viable in the sense that we now know what Saitama is capable of when he is pressed to the max, and enters a fully serious/uncuffed/bloodlusted mindset... But it of course takes him a decent amount of time(and loss) against a very powerful opponent to get to those levels.

IOW, I think it is certainly possible for Saitama to eventually ramp up to that level again, but it doesn't seem like he'd *start* there in a standard battle... Though the OP's "CIS is off" stip kind of muddies the waters there.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I and Deadpool (and by extension, yourself) agree on this. I said this ages ago:

And the above post was in response to Galan:

It's slightly different. We're saying Saitama is at that level but has to remember. You're saying he's not and has to ramp back up. A bit different.

Originally posted by Classic NES
To be fair h1 spelled a lot of things wrong, but it doesn't mean his numbers are wrong. He's just better at calculation than spelling, punctuation, and grammar. Just my opinion as a layman.

Yeah, but when he kept continuosly spelling an SI prefix incorrectly, despite claiming to have a masters in mathematics, been a mathematics teacher for 15 years (and a physics tutor for the same amount of time), that seemed particularly egregious.

Just do a search on this site for 'femptosecond'. See how many hits you get.

Originally posted by Classic NES
The two timelines didn't merge. Saitama left an alternate Timeline using a technique Garou taught him. The only artifacts from that alt timeline were Saitama himself and Geno's core which survived when he emerged. The alt Saitama survived too but merely merged with his current self. Now, the core that he brought back retained all the data so why would we assume Saitama didn't retain anything when he was able to bring whatever he carried with him and himself intact? Simply because of the merger?

But there was a literal merger of the alternate Saitama and canon Saitama. How does this merger have no tangible effect on the alleged retcon??? I'd agree that if the alternate Saitama disappeared like Awakened Garou's phantom did, then it would be a straight retcon.

But alternate Saitama didn't just fade. He merged. And actual artifacts of that alternate timeline remained with canon Saitama, i.e., alternate Genos' core and Saitama's crotch hole.

Originally posted by h1a8
As far as how they fight?
Then just knowing and reading all the fights will give you credibility for that? But how they speak or joke or operate outside of battle then yes one would need to read the entire books containing them

at any rate, glad we agree that credibility is important.

Originally posted by ODG
The interesting question to pose is whether the on-panel merger matters or not. I agree why CIP/CIS would serve to prevent Saitama from accessing his Awakened Garou fight levels of power or techniques.

But there was a literal merger of the alternate Saitama and canon Saitama. How does this merger have no tangible effect on the alleged retcon??? I'd agree that if the alternate Saitama disappeared like Awakened Garou's phantom did, then it would be a straight retcon.

But alternate Saitama didn't just fade. He merged. And actual artifacts of that alternate timeline remained with canon Saitama, i.e., alternate Genos' core and Saitama's crotch hole.

Because to me, the two characters had different memories and thus emotions.

Which leads to different power levels being manifested. His power levels being dependent on his emotions, sure, if you pushed him hard enough with the right mental stimuli (killing his disciple in front of him, as an example) then he'd go apeshit on you again.

But without the 'right' stimuli/conditions? He wouldn't.

Even with CIS off, character still applies.

Originally posted by ODG
The interesting question to pose is whether the on-panel merger matters or not. I agree why CIP/CIS would serve to prevent Saitama from accessing his Awakened Garou fight levels of power or techniques.

But there was a literal merger of the alternate Saitama and canon Saitama. How does this merger have no tangible effect on the alleged retcon??? I'd agree that if the alternate Saitama disappeared like Awakened Garou's phantom did, then it would be a straight retcon.

But alternate Saitama didn't just fade. He merged. And actual artifacts of that alternate timeline remained with canon Saitama, i.e., alternate Genos' core and Saitama's crotch hole.

👆

That's exactly what I been saying.
Saitama had the core in his hand when the two merged. After the merger the core still was in Saitama's hand. It didn't cease to exist at all.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because to me, the two characters had different memories and thus emotions.

Which leads to different power levels being manifested. His power levels being dependent on his emotions, sure, if you pushed him hard enough with the right mental stimuli (killing his disciple in front of him, as an example) then he'd go apeshit on you again.

But without the 'right' stimuli/conditions? He wouldn't.

Originally posted by h1a8
His power level doesn't go down based off his emotions but only upward.

But they never went up. Because the fight never happened.

If we replicated the events in the manga, sure, he would do exactly the same as shown. His emotional state would heighten, his growth would increase exponentially, and he would reach the same heady heights we saw on Io.

But if you didn't, then he wouldn't, as proved by the fact that you haven't been able to give similar feats from other manga issues. I mean, is this all you have? This one fight?

Originally posted by ODG
The interesting question to pose is whether the on-panel merger matters or not. I agree why CIP/CIS would serve to prevent Saitama from accessing his Awakened Garou fight levels of power or techniques.

But there was a literal merger of the alternate Saitama and canon Saitama. How does this merger have no tangible effect on the alleged retcon??? I'd agree that if the alternate Saitama disappeared like Awakened Garou's phantom did, then it would be a straight retcon.

But alternate Saitama didn't just fade. He merged. And actual artifacts of that alternate timeline remained with canon Saitama, i.e., alternate Genos' core and Saitama's crotch hole.

This is essentially my argument to the letter.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But they never went up. Because the fight never happened.

The same Saitama from the fight appeared in that timeline.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But they never went up. Because the fight never happened.

If we replicated the events in the manga, sure, he would do exactly the same as shown. His emotional state would heighten, his growth would increase exponentially.

But if you didn't, then he wouldn't, as proved by the fact that you haven't been able to give similar feats from other manga issues.

Stating speculation (the kind that makes no sense) as facts without proof is faulty.

If leveled up present Saitama isn't inside the past's Saitama's body then explain why the core still exists in the merged Saitama's hand? Why the writer have the two even merge like they were combined? Why not write present Saitama to be erased out of existence and leave past Saitama untouched?
Why even allow present Saitama to even exist in the past timeline for any period of time? To merge? Why merge? Why not erased? Why core still exist in his hands?

Originally posted by h1a8
Stating speculation (the kind that makes no sense) as facts without proof is faulty.

If leveled up present Saitama isn't inside the past's Saitama's body then explain why the core still exists in the merged Saitama's hand? Why the writer have the two even merge like they were combined? Why not write present Saitama to be erased out of existence and leave past Saitama untouched?
Why even allow present Saitama to even exist in the past timeline for any period of time? To merge? Why merge? Why not erased? Why core still exist in his hands?

For comedic effect. This way, Genos gets to continue to be the only one who knows what Saitama is truly capable of.

The merging is so the writer can have the comedic moment of having Saitama's dong out.

Originally posted by Classic NES
The same Saitama from the fight appeared in that timeline.

Again, and I repeat this for the 3rd? 4th? Time - is this Io fight the only feat where Saitama is able to compete with this gauntlet?

Is that it? And h1, this goes to you too. Although I suspect you may dodge it as you haven't actually read the manga.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because to me, the two characters had different memories and thus emotions.

Which leads to different power levels being manifested. His power levels being dependent on his emotions, sure, if you pushed him hard enough with the right mental stimuli (killing his disciple in front of him, as an example) then he'd go apeshit on you again.

But without the 'right' stimuli/conditions? He wouldn't.

Even with CIS off, character still applies.

But I suppose I can pose the separate-but-related question to you: does the on-panel merger merit any consideration when examining the nature of the alleged "retcon" being argued by posters here?

My take:

The recent chapter introduced the multiverse concept. So when Saitama used "Reverse Causality", he created a branch timeline that diverged/split from the main timeline -- effectively creating an alternate version of himself(and by proxy, an alternate version of Genos' core.) In this divergent reality, the fight on Io still took place exactly as we saw... But in the primary OPM timeline, said events were retconned/negated/erased(whichever word is most fitting) before they ever took place.

That's why mainstream Saitama doesn't seem to remember any of those events: in his timeline, they simply never happened at all.

Only time will tell how the merger between mainstream Saitama and alternate Saitama has effected him as a whole(I expect either Genos or Blast to provide more insight in future chapters.) But as of current, he seems to be the same "dopey-doh" dweeb he was before the Io fight... Which makes sense, because again: from his perspective, none of those events ever happened. He seems to be totally clueless, despite the merger.

^ I feel like my question still isn't being answered. I get that canon Saitama may not have the memories of the alternate Saitama (and therefore does not possess the motivation or learned techniques), but does the on-panel merger merit no consideration whatsoever when considering the nature of this alleged "retcon"?

I don't think ONE and Murata had alternate Saitama merge with canon Saitama for no reason whatsoever. Or have physical artifacts remain from the alternate timeline remain in the canon timeline. After all, alternate Awakened Garou's phantom faded away without ever merging.

Another way to ask the same question: is there no difference between canon Awakened Garou and canon Saitama when the former never merged w/ his alternate self but the latter did merge w/ the alternate self?

I must not be understanding exactly what you're asking, then.

I can only assume that alternate Saitama fusing with mainstream Saitama, along with the core of alternate Genos being brought into the primary timeline, will prove to be major plot-devices in future chapters... But I'm not sure how much consideration it warrants as of now, given that we don't know what sort of role those tidbits will amount to in stories to come. /shrug

All we can really conclude at the moment is that mainstream Saitama doesn't seem to have any recollection of the events that occurred after chap.164(thanks to his alternate self branching the timeline with Reverse Causality), and that the core of alternate Genos is essentially just being used by mainstream Genos as a looking glass into a future that technically never happened in the primary OPM timeline.

Can Saitama get back up to his "Io levels" again(provided the right kind of stimuli)? Sure. Can he just 'transform' back into that state again on the fly, due to the merger with his alternate self? Doesn't seem that way right now, imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
I must not be understanding exactly what you're asking, then.

Potentially? Sure.

But it's hard to say how much consideration the merger warrants with any kind of confidence, because we simply don't know one way or the other right now. As of the most recent chapter, however, there was still no implication that the merger had any real effect on mainstream Saitama at all(that he is currently aware of, at least.) He just seems to be back to his chap.163-164 self.

I guess we just need more info. /shrug