Saitama runs the marvel hardcore gauntlet

Originally posted by carver9
I can't tell how fast Flash moved his arm since he was running at super speed which makes the ft questionable. So I don't have an answer for ya. Why did you post these scans? What make this post so impressive? Explain please...

Also, please provide hard numbers on your scan. Tell me how fast Supes was going there

Lmao I cropped the scan on purpose, because I knew you would try to argue this. Previous panel:

You clearly see his arm cocked back, ready to punch - he didn't run with his fist stretched out in front of him lmao.

But sure, if it is too hard for you to understand:

How fast is GLADIATOR'S hand moving, to catch that punch? Are poisoned Robin's hands moving faster? I am not asking you for hard numbers, lol - I am asking you which is faster, RELATIVE to each other.

As for my scans, irrelevant - I do not need to provide numbers. All that matters, is that it was taking place at superspeed - which was my point. I am not saying Superman is faster than Saitama, or Sentry, or Gladiator, or Quicksilver, or Krypto, or whatever, on the basis of those scans - I am only saying it was so fast that humans saw it as a blur. Please try to understand what it is I am arguing, lol.

Is Superman flying at superspeed there? Yes. Is Saitama moving at superspeed across Io? YES.

Is Superman flying faster than Gladiator there? Erm......ZERO IDEA. I never claimed anything different. All I claimed was that he was fast enough to be a blur.

YOUR ARGUMENT, then extrapolates this further, with zero proof - that not only is Saitama fast, but he is faster than anyone else here. Which is what I am arguing against.

Edit: in fact, I'll go even further and say based on that scan, NO, SUPERMAN IS NOT FASTER THAN SAITAMA OR GLADIATOR OR WW OR HULK, lol. But he IS moving at superspeed, even though the art does not support it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lmao I cropped the scan on purpose, because I [b]knew you would try to argue this. Previous panel:

You clearly see his arm cocked back, ready to punch - he didn't run with his fist stretched out in front of him lmao.

But sure, if it is too hard for you to understand:

How fast is GLADIATOR'S hand moving, to catch that punch? Are poisoned Robin's hands moving faster? I am not asking you for hard numbers, lol - I am asking you which is faster, RELATIVE to each other.

As for my scans, irrelevant - I do not need to provide numbers. All that matters, is that it was taking place at superspeed - which was my point. I am not saying Superman is faster than Saitama, or Sentry, or Gladiator, or Quicksilver, or Krypto, or whatever, on the basis of those scans - I am only saying it was so fast that humans saw it as a blur. Please try to understand what it is I am arguing, lol.

Is Superman flying at superspeed there? Yes. Is Saitama moving at superspeed across Io? YES.

Is Superman flying faster than Gladiator there? Erm......ZERO IDEA. I never claimed anything different. All I claimed was that he was fast enough to be a blur.

YOUR ARGUMENT, then extrapolates this further, with zero proof - that not only is Saitama fast, but he is faster than anyone else here. Which is what I am arguing against. [/B]

So I'm guessing besides the hyperbole that his hand was moving at light speed. Guess the proof is on you to show me he/Flash was actually doing light speed.

Wait, didn't you say humans hands can move so fast that it's blur like in our eyes? So Superman and Doomsday were moving at human arm shaking speeds?

I have proof, I'm just trying to get you to accept it. Why did you post the Superman scans when they are irrelevant based on your argument and is human speeds level?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Speedforce protected the room!

If you take the narration literally it's (as far as I know) the Flash's most impressive scene.

- The Flash (1987) #148

Originally posted by carver9
So I'm guessing besides the hyperbole that his hand was moving at light speed. Guess the proof is on you to show me he/Flash was actually doing light speed.

Wait, didn't you say humans hands can move so fast that it's blur like in our eyes? So Superman and Doomsday were moving at human arm shaking speeds?

I have proof, I'm just trying to get you to accept it. Why did you post the Superman scans when they are irrelevant based on your argument and is human speeds level?

Again, sure, if that's what you want. My point is that though the art does not show him as a blur, by the text, he's moving fast as a blur. Why you can't accept/understand this I do not know, lmao.

So again - what is CURRENT Saitama's best speed feat?

Edit: you also need to give some hard numbers here. Pretty art means nothing. Hyperbole or not, your logic is leading to the silly conclusion that Poisoned Robin is punching faster than Flash, is moving faster than Hyperion, than Gladiator etc. Flash could be moving at 1%, 10%, 53% whatever% lightspeed - it doesn't matter, Robin's fists, as per pretty art, is 5 or 6 times faster than them or whatever. That Batman is punching as fast as Flash is in his picosecond fight.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lmao I cropped the scan on purpose, because I [b]knew you would try to argue this. Previous panel:

You clearly see his arm cocked back, ready to punch - he didn't run with his fist stretched out in front of him lmao.[/B]

Which suggests that the velocity imparted by the punch was below escape velocity for Earth, which is even pointed out by the Flash.

It technically says "At least seven miles per secoond. That's escape velocity, by the way." But since Züm didn't end up in orbit it should be below that. Although it can be justified if you account for drag.

The problem is that speed isn't impressive in the given context.

- JLA (1997) #3

Originally posted by Astner
This is a scene that you don't want to bring attention to, because the Flash only punched Züm to Africa.

Which suggests that the velocity imparted by the punch was below escape velocity for Earth, which is even pointed out by the Flash.

It technically says "At least seven miles per secoond. That's escape velocity, by the way." But since Züm didn't end up in orbit it should be below that. Although it can be justified if you account for drag.

The problem is that speed isn't impressive in the given context.

- JLA (1997) #3

Unless Zum resisted it. Much like a boxer can brace against a punch - now imagine said boxer can also fly (so his 'flying muscle' or whatever can also aid in bracing against said punch). We clearly see Zum reacting to the punch, and we know he is a military man, trained in fighting.

Can't edit, oh well.

The main point is NOT that I am wedded to the lightspeed statement. Whatever speed Flash is punching him at, is irrelevant. What matters is the relativity with Robin.

All that matters, and what you are all missing, is that Robin, whilst poisoned and dying, is depicted as punching so fast that he creates afterimages, whilst Flash is not depicted with afterimages. So as per anime fan logic, Robin, whilst dying, is punching faster than Flash there when he punches a white martian to Africa.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Unless Zum resisted it. Much like a boxer can brace against a punch - now imagine said boxer can also fly (so his 'flying muscle' or whatever can also aid in bracing against said punch). We clearly see Zum reacting to the punch, and we know he is a military man, trained in fighting.

Personally I don't give a shit. I'm just giving you a heads up.

Originally posted by Astner
Bracing for a punch is just tightening the muscles to maintain your balance, it's not magic. Also, the punch knocked out Züm, so it's not like he could've counteracted it mid-flight, but even if he could it wouldn't change the initial velocity that the Flash referred to.

Personally I don't give a shit. I'm just giving you a heads up.

Please. It's Carver.

But again, I've already told him -it doesn't matter what speed Flash was at, he could've been at a lowly Mach 100 there for all I care (you being a man of numbers know how low that is, relative to the speed of light).

What matters is a dying Robin is punching so fast the art depicts afterimages, whilst Flash - at X% lightspeed - has none. Same with the picosecond fight, compared to Batman's fight.

If we based relative speeds on art (character A has afterimages, character B has none, therefore A is faster than B), then Robin is faster than Flash by a good margin.

opm is even worse then dragon ball when it comes to trying to calc speed feats.

some say saitama's best is jumping from the moon to earth in a short amount of time. some say his best is reacting to geryuganshoop's debris pitches. some say his best is blitzing boros. some say his best is toying with flashy flash. some say his best is blitzing monster garou. some say his best is blitzing cosmic garou on IO (which is probably true, but it's been retconned and wasnt really calculable in the first place).

the battles look really pretty, but good luck trying to find hard speed figures for them.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
opm is even worse then dragon ball when it comes to trying to calc speed feats.

some say saitama's best is jumping from the moon to earth in a short amount of time. some say his best is reacting to geryuganshoop's debris pitches. some say his best is blitzing boros. some say his best is toying with flashy flash. some say his best is blitzing monster garou. some say his best is blitzing cosmic garou on IO (which is probably true, but it's been retconned and wasnt really calculable in the first place).

the battles look really pretty, but good luck trying to find hard speed figures for them.

Agreed. Which is my point.

Look, I know it's manga, and it's done differently. But if you come into a comic book versus forum, and debate against comic characters - I argue that you should at least follow the rules and burdens of proof that comic characters have to, otherwise the whole exercise falls over. We don't use ABC logic (in most cases; there are always exceptions, I suppose), we don't just rely on art etc.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
the battles look really pretty, but good luck trying to find hard speed figures for them.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Agreed. Which is my point.

Look, I know it's manga, and it's done differently. But if you come into a comic book versus forum, and debate against comic characters - I argue that you should at least follow the rules and burdens of proof that comic characters have to, otherwise the whole exercise falls over. We don't use ABC logic (in most cases; there are always exceptions, I suppose), we don't just rely on art etc.

It's the complete opposite of Manga vs it seems. In those debates, calculations are made using artwork via pixel scaling and Transitive property i.e. A>B>C logic is rife. People really use after images as speed feats in those.

Originally posted by ODG
Monsterized Garou's speed was measured though. Along with those he fought.

or is there something else i might have missed?

Originally posted by Classic NES
It's the complete opposite of Manga vs it seems. In those debates, calculations are made using artwork via pixel scaling and Transitive property i.e. A>B>C logic is rife. People really use after images as speed feats in those.

so true though. hardcore opm / manga fans will literally "calc" speed feats based on the amount of pixels on a given page. it is absolutely insane.

^ I haven't seen anybody do that in this thread but I'd generally say that hardcore Marvel/DC fans aren't in a position to criticize hardcore manga fans when it comes to fishing for feats.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
you talking about the "millisecond" feat with platinum sperm? because how exactly would that translate by comic standards?

or is there something else i might have missed?

That's the point of a hard speed feat.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
😂

so true though. hardcore opm / manga fans will literally "calc" speed feats based on the amount of pixels on a given page. it is absolutely insane.

Pixel scaling is why I quit manga debates. There's hardly ever any corrobrative text so everything has to be pixel scaled combined with constant power scaling abuse. Couldn't take it.

Originally posted by ODG
^ I haven't seen anybody do that in this thread but I'd generally say that hardcore Marvel/DC fans aren't in a position to criticize hardcore manga fans when it comes to fishing for feats. The apex of their 1v1 fight exceeded the millisecond scale. And there were hard speed figures you were asking for. There is no "translation" to speak of.

That's the point of a hard speed feat.

How would that compare to say, Gladiator?

I could use powerscaling and ask about Thanos (based in his fights with Surfer) but thought I'd keep it simple.

Originally posted by ODG
^ I haven't seen anybody do that in this thread but I'd generally say that hardcore Marvel/DC fans aren't in a position to criticize hardcore manga fans when it comes to fishing for feats.

Originally posted by ODG
The apex of their 1v1 fight exceeded the millisecond scale. And there were hard speed figures you were asking for. There is no "translation" to speak of.

That's the point of a hard speed feat.

sadly manga is way more popular than comics on the internet forums