Originally posted by carver9
Circling every part of a moon bigger than earth's moon in one panel. Anyways, let me pull a Darksaint. Sentry does blitz an unaware Thor. Same comic...Wasp dodges him...
Wasp outreacts him...
https://ibb.co/sV9JFTT
https://ibb.co/L8s7Mf0And he's unable to dodge a big, 100 ft tall worm...
Thing is, if we take low showings, Wasp and that giant worm are miles better than a random mosquito and a cat. I was prepared for you to attempt to bring low showings up (note, no one else did but you).
Same character, same writer, same artist. Doesn't look good for Saitama.
Originally posted by h1a8
It's quantifiable. Just need the knowledge in order to quantify it.
But a quantity doesn't have to be known in order to prove that it is greater than another quantity (known or unknown).For example, clearly Saitama was faster than Usain Bolt's fastest movement speed when he created those many afterimages.
Sentry has done nothing to compare, therefore he loses in speed by default.
Ok, tell me how fast one needs to be to create afterimages. I've shown Robin's fists creating afterimages, for example.
Originally posted by h1a8
We clearly know how fast Flash is? We do not know how fast Sentry is other than him catching a bullet. Therefore Robin (in that particular instance) is punching faster than Sentry when you see Sentry randomly punches someone.Also comics are clear when they are showing action in the character's perspective or ours (humans). So yes we can determine who punched faster based off art.
Untrue.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
There's also this:A fight that took....4 or 5 issues to complete, had large-scale destruction, the United Planets showing up, extended conversations, lots of action - and in comic terms, only took 10 minutes. The art may not support it, but it is happening at superspeed.
Then there is this:
No blurs, no anime style art to say it is at high speed - but it is clearly, based on the text, taking place at superspeed.
In short, just because it isn't drawn like an anime, doesn't mean it isn't at high speed. People get swayed by pretty pictures, and don't read the words.
Originally posted by Smurph
What are you talking about?https://imgur.io/NxMLdqQ
https://imgur.io/1tbkmT2Wolverine's senses pick up a sonic boom from hundreds of miles away. Before the sound registers with him, Sentry grabs Thor by the neck, "hurled forward at many times the speed of light", with velocity that "bends space and time"
So we know that before Wolverine could register, Sentry went from sonic speeds to many times lightspeed, and that his reflexes were at least good enough to target Thor and grab him by the throat at those speeds. So no, catching a bullet is not DS Sentry's best speed feat.
I suppose we have to ignore that Wolverine couldn't have heard the sonic boom before Sentry attacked because sound couldn't have been moving faster than Sentry.... comics, I guess.
The feat is plenty clear, though.
Wolverine sensing things before any stimulus can reach him is not only impossible but NOT the status quo and therefore is never the case outside that one showing you are referring to. In that case Logan could never be struck by sub sonic attacks (which is not the case).
How long did it take Sentry to go sonic speeds? How far did Sentry travel before reaching sonic speeds?
How long did it take Sentry to go light speed? How far did Sentry travel before reaching light speed?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Untrue.
This is what I posted
Originally posted by h1a8
We clearly know how fast Flash is? We do not know how fast Sentry is other than him catching a bullet. Therefore Robin (in that particular instance) is punching faster than Sentry when you see Sentry randomly punches someone.Also comics are clear when they are showing action in the character's perspective or ours (humans). So yes we can determine who punched faster based off art.
Look at the Robin bit.
The last sentence is key though.
Action can be shown from the characters perspective or the reader's perspective (human level).
Lastly if one has no indication or evidence of how fast they are going then they automatically lose to someone creating tens of afterimages.
Flash has other feats to establish his speed. Sentry does not. Sentry hardly ever uses any type of superbattle speed.
Originally posted by h1a8
This is what I postedLook at the Robin bit.
The last sentence is key though.
Action can be shown from the characters perspective or the reader's perspective (human level).Lastly if one has no indication or evidence of how fast they are going then they automatically lose to someone creating tens of afterimages.
Flash has other feats to establish his speed. Sentry does not. Sentry hardly ever uses any type of superbattle speed.
But afterimages do not need high end speed to create. Strong punches do, however - it is impossible to strike something hard whilst going slow, otherwise it's a push, not a punch. I can create afterimages with my hand in front of a screen (and so can you). Saying they automatically lose is merely an arbitrary measure you have invented.
Your point is what I said from the start- it's less a speed feat, and more of a feature of the observer's perception. Without the text, none of the scans I posted would have passed muster as a speed feat.
I am interested to see if others (i.e Carv, at this point) share h1's conclusion, i.e. that Robin, whilst dying from poisoning, is punching faster than a random punch from Sentry (and by extension, Hulk/Gladiator/Superman etc).
And how far does it go? Is Nightwing here faster than Sentry in 'random flight' (whatever that means)?
https://imgur.com/K4Pmj3e
Is he faster than Gladiator? WW?
So Carver9, do you share h1's conclusion? That Robin and Nightwing are far faster than most heralds out there in these scans, based on afterimages?
Originally posted by Sin I AM
h1 don't low-ball Sentry. Try to be non bias in your arguments ok
Sentry has superspeed yes. The fastest I ever seen him move in an instant and react was when he caught the sniper bullet. All other feats, like flying ftl in space are not usable in a battle situation. Speed is irrelevant, it's more about time. How much time will it take someone to travel 0.5km starting from rest? What is the smallest amount of time someone reacted to something that occurred. Time is the key, not speed. Acceleration gives time, not speed.
Why not tell DS to stop lowballing? Did you see the 50+ afterimages Saitama created while in battle? This is more than Sonic created who is stated to be faster than sound. DS is trying to say that Saitama moved a little faster than a human since no one here can quantify an actual mph for it. If saying that particular feat (not afterimages in general) can not be used as a speed feat is not lowballing then I don't know what lowballing is.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85In comics (fiction in general) you can punch something very hard while moving very slowly. That's just the way it works.
But afterimages do not need high end speed to create. Strong punches do, however - it is impossible to strike something hard whilst going slow, otherwise it's a push, not a punch. I can create afterimages with my hand in front of a screen (and so can you). Saying they automatically lose is merely an arbitrary measure you have invented.Your point is what I said from the start- it's less a speed feat, and more of a feature of the observer's perception. Without the text, none of the scans I posted would have passed muster as a speed feat.
There is no special screen in comics to produce afterimages. If we see them then it is superspeed, period. That includes Robin.
If a character does not have a history of moving fast in battle then we should never assumed they are moving fast in any scene without evidence (afterimages, etc). That means Robin was moving faster than Sentry in scenes where there is no evidence that Sentry was moving fast.
Evidence can be main power set (like Flash), narration, afterimages, etc. Lack of evidence means slower than another character with evidence.
Originally posted by h1a8
Sentry has superspeed yes. The fastest I ever seen him move in an instant and react was when he caught the sniper bullet. All other feats, like flying ftl in space are not usable in a battle situation. Speed is irrelevant, it's more about time. How much time will it take someone to travel 0.5km starting from rest? What is the smallest amount of time someone reacted to something that occurred. Time is the key, not speed. Acceleration gives time, not speed.Why not tell DS to stop lowballing? Did you see the 50+ afterimages Saitama created while in battle? This is more than Sonic created who is stated to be faster than sound. DS is trying to say that Saitama moved a little faster than a human since no one here can quantify an actual mph for it. If saying that particular feat (not afterimages in general) can not be used as a speed feat is not lowballing then I don't know what lowballing is.
I'm saying it's unquantifiable. If you can quantify it, by all means.
I have shown humans creating afterimages, multiple afterimages, in comics. Humans who do not have superhuman speed, maybe by real world standards, but not by comic book standards. That is not lowballing, I have provided proof ( and can scan dump if needed, for multiple characters across Marvel and DC, creating afterimages).
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I am interested to see if others (i.e Carv, at this point) share h1's conclusion, i.e. that Robin, whilst dying from poisoning, is punching faster than a random punch from Sentry (and by extension, Hulk/Gladiator/Superman etc).And how far does it go? Is Nightwing here faster than Sentry in 'random flight' (whatever that means)?
https://imgur.com/K4Pmj3eIs he faster than Gladiator? WW?
So Carver9, do you share h1's conclusion? That Robin and Nightwing are far faster than most heralds out there in these scans, based on afterimages?
There's a HUGE difference in what you're posting. Your scans are action sequence, showing the characters movements action by action. Saitama is legitimately using super speed to where Garou is visually seeing multiple Saitamas, something that you're scans are not showing. Example, Superman leaving an after image in front of the JLA while being miles away performing actions. That's super speed. Saitama having images all over a moon bigger than earth's moon is pure super speed, not just random after images.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I am interested to see if others (i.e Carv, at this point) share h1's conclusion, i.e. that Robin, whilst dying from poisoning, is punching faster than a random punch from Sentry (and by extension, Hulk/Gladiator/Superman etc).And how far does it go? Is Nightwing here faster than Sentry in 'random flight' (whatever that means)?
https://imgur.com/K4Pmj3eIs he faster than Gladiator? WW?
So Carver9, do you share h1's conclusion? That Robin and Nightwing are far faster than most heralds out there in these scans, based on afterimages?
Superman doesn't always punch with superspeed. Therefore Robin (only in that scene) punched faster than all the characters you named in random scenes (scenes where there is no evidence of them using superspeed)
And creating afterimages is proof to superspeed. It's writers intent.
Originally posted by h1a8
In comics (fiction in general) you can punch something very hard while moving very slowly. That's just the way it works.There is no special screen in comics to produce afterimages. If we see them then it is superspeed, period. That includes Robin.
If a character does not have a history of moving fast in battle then we should never assumed they are moving fast in any scene without evidence (afterimages, etc). That means Robin was moving faster than Sentry in scenes where there is no evidence that Sentry was moving fast.
Evidence can be main power set (like Flash), narration, afterimages, etc. Lack of evidence means slower than another character with evidence.
So PIS that they are moving slowly when they punch hard. Good to know.
You don't need a special screen, lmao. Just wave your hand in front of your face - you will produce afterimages. What speed feats then does Saitama have, to make you say he has superspeed? You're just being circular - he is fast, because he produces afterimages, and afterimages are proof of speed, because Saitama is fast, because he produces afterimages.
Nightwing and Robin are moving faster than Superman in the majority of his scans, as per you, because they produce afterimages. For Carver, replace Superman with Hulk and Gladiator.
It's not very good debating.