Wally West vs Cosmic Thor

Originally posted by MrMind
what level would u place cosmic thor

What else challenged Cosmic Thor at that point? Serious question. IIRC, a literal backstab from Knull, a Cosmic Cube wielding Shang Chi, and a Fist/Eye/Hellfire, Khonshu-supermoon amped Moon Knight. I definitely feel like I am missing more.

Originally posted by ODG
Skyfather level? Cosmic Thor was capable of manipulating an amped Galactus' Power Cosmic but even I think it was via the convenient direct connection to the Power Cosmic that Galactus unwittingly bestowed upon him.

What else challenged Cosmic Thor at that point? Serious question. IIRC, a literal backstab from Knull, a Cosmic Cube wielding Shang Chi, and a Fist/Eye/Hellfire, Khonshu-supermoon amped Moon Knight. I definitely feel like I am missing more.

do you think a cis less wally can hurt skyfather level being?

Originally posted by MrMind
do you think a cis less wally can hurt skyfather level being?

Originally posted by MrMind
do you think a cis less wally can hurt skyfather level being?

Originally posted by ODG
Yes. Jane Thor kinda gave Odin the business in her best on-panel fight. But what skyfather-level beings has Wally speed-stole from? Or are we talking about two different things?

He wasn't depicted as a skyfather during that arc ..he was definitely weaker than normal

^ That seems arbitrary. But if you want to set aside that fight entirely, are we supposed to pretend that high heralds like Superman, Flash, Thor and Silver Surfer haven't hurt skyfather-level beings? I mean... they've hurt Abstract-level beings...

What Abstract beings have Flash hurt.

^ Anti-Monitor?

Originally posted by ODG
Haven't read the thread much but maybe a cogent question to ask/answer would be: who has Wally West speed-stolen from that is similar to (or above) the level of Cosmic Thor.

The question then becomes, is Cosmic Thor's kinetic energy any different from say, normal Thor's kinetic energy, for that question to be applicable. Agreed that Cosmic Thor could output energy levels far above Normal Thor, but does that mean he didn't need kinetic energy to move his arms or jaw etc?

Also, I'd place AntiMonitor above Skyfather level, but that's by the by.

Originally posted by Stoic
In the visible scan, it specifically states that the Speed force gives the universe motion, but what if one gains motion from an other worldly source? What if they can control the flow of time in a limited area of effect? Would the Speed force rob Galactus of movement? The Living Tribunal? Micheal Korvak? RK Thor? Cosmic Iron-Man? The Beyonder? Of course not, because they can bend time, negating the effects of a speed steal. They are even capable of trapping opponents in time loops. The ones that are magical tend to last for a long while as well.

Magic can counteract speed, as can reality manipulation.

Mostly any other way is impossible. There are forces in comics that are able to operate outside of time magical or otherwise, (Adam Warlock does it from time to time as an example).

These things do not occur in comics often, because they are considered as de·us ex ma·chi·na. Same as Wally’s full speed while fighting Weather Wizard, The Top, Pied Piper, Captain Cold etc.

DS made a great point when he said that writers want flashy fights and are less concerned with power levels in general.

How often was CK Thor ever pitted against a speedster of Wally’s caliber? Never right? Why would we ever see him ready himself for battle against anything like him? Never right? Does he have the capacity to erect both cosmic, and Asgardian defenses and wards alike? Auto shields built into his very being by the power cosmic, and mystical wards capable of bending space and time.

He seemed pretty regal to me, and by far more wise than he was in his younger days. Being able to detect distant occurrences and such. Is he allowed to come into the match under these conditions? He was also in psychic combat with the Black Winter. We know that there were many levels involved in their battle than what is simply on the surface.

I’ll read the other examples, but not seeing why time manipulation, and many other abilities are off of the table?

How did CK Thor remain a Sky Father instead of being many millions of times more powerful than a Sky Father? Galactus is and was for that matter much greater than a Sky Father. With the Power Cosmic, it transformed him into much more.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No.

Magic mixed with the essence of the universe. Yes. Odin alone could stop time.

By the time he thinks to do it, the match would be over.

I don’t see time stopping on a guy who’s maybe ultimate time travel comic character to have any desired effect. He’s mainlined to the speedforce. There’s actually a lot of instances on panel of time slows and stops not affecting Wally or Barry.

Plus, like I posted, Flash actually timestopped a Dr.Manhattan level being temporarily on panel.

If anyone going to do some time gimmick in this match, Flash has favorable chances

Yeah I saw that post after I read this last page and posted.
Wally has been pretty crazy lately.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
We also have Wally stops time by tapping the Speed Force in a different way
https://ibb.co/MZdwCkS
https://ibb.co/kX4n8FM

That's Batman who Laughs who had Dr Manhattan's powers or something, right?

Originally posted by ODG
Yes. Jane Thor kinda gave Odin the business in her best on-panel fight. But what skyfather-level beings has Wally speed-stole from? Or are we talking about two different things?

speed stealing is just one option

if wally can hurt thor, he can kill him before thor can react, it's the same deal with zoom

if he can punch him once, he can punch him a million time in millisecond, that's how fast wally is currently, in a cis less environment his speed has literally no limit

Originally posted by ODG
^ That seems arbitrary. But if you want to set aside that fight entirely, are we supposed to pretend that high heralds like Superman, Flash, Thor and Silver Surfer haven't hurt skyfather-level beings? I mean... they've hurt Abstract-level beings...

superman is far above high herald on the tier list but i digress

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's Batman who Laughs who had Dr Manhattan's powers or something, right?

A power strong enough to create and destroy worlds. A Batmanhattan
Yes, I will be a culmination of human evil. And a cosmic weapon of infinite power
Plus a cosmic awareness that allows he to experience and absorb knowledge and experience of every batman in the Dark Multiverse, and seemingly has some precog ability

https://ibb.co/XJ86JVL
https://ibb.co/TBWmXvv
https://ibb.co/tbm5NGy
https://ibb.co/DL61kpZ
https://ibb.co/553dM3v
https://ibb.co/Nrjvq11

The Batman Who Laught's brain was placed into the body of a Bruce Wayne who had the godlike abilities of the entity called Doctor Manhattan

Originally posted by ODG
^ That seems arbitrary. But if you want to set aside that fight entirely, are we supposed to pretend that high heralds like Superman, Flash, Thor and Silver Surfer haven't hurt skyfather-level beings? I mean... they've hurt Abstract-level beings...

Arbitrary? Not at all, being weakened is a big deal.

Yes, they operate at that level

Originally posted by Stoic
How did CK Thor remain a Sky Father instead of being many millions of times more powerful than a Sky Father? Galactus is and was for that matter much greater than a Sky Father. With the Power Cosmic, it transformed him into much more.

Originally posted by MrMind
speed stealing is just one option

if wally can hurt thor, he can kill him before thor can react, it's the same deal with zoom

if he can punch him once, he can punch him a million time in millisecond, that's how fast wally is currently, in a cis less environment his speed has literally no limit

superman is far above high herald on the tier list but i digress

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Arbitrary? Not at all, being weakened is a big deal.

Yes, they operate at that level