Wally West vs Cosmic Thor

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Plus, like I posted, Flash actually timestopped a Dr.Manhattan level being temporarily on panel.

If anyone going to do some time gimmick in this match, Flash has favorable chances

Ah, you activated my Trap Card… lol kidding.

Temporarily is exactly what I mean. If the character has the power to step out of the speed steal, and the durability, toughness, or whatever keeps them on their feet, they can reverse the flow of time. They can mystically stop the progression of time, while being outside of times influence. The Odin Force is capable of doing just that. Odin has done it on panel, as has Thor himself, while only possessing the Odin Force.

What is not being understood is what the Power Cosmic did to Thor as an All Father. He was buffed in the same way that a normal mortal man like Norrin Radd was also buffed. The implications of CK Thor becoming hundreds to even millions of times more powerful than a Sky Father of his power level is plausible. He did defeat a being capable of quickly destroying entire Universes after all.

Power Cosmic users have bent time, reversed time, placed other powerful beings in time loops, etc. Odin, and Thor have stopped time on separate occasions.

The Power Cosmic staves off exhaustion, likely canceling Thor’s need to sleep, granting him near inexhaustible stamina. He has spells that are capable of separating soul from it’s body, raising the dead.

A regular high powered Sky Father can typically toss stars at their opponents as seen in the battle with Old King Thor vs Gorr.

The Black Winter made Knull look like a light weight. Speed had no effect on Knull as well, from my recollection. It was once said that speed did not fully apply to Darkseid as well, which is a curious statement within itself.

What I am saying, like I have been saying all along, is that CK Thor may not be affected by a time steal like many others because of his own ability to step outside of the time stream, and I highly doubt that an IMP would one shot him.

Originally posted by Stoic
Ah, you activated my Trap Card… lol kidding.

Temporarily is exactly what I mean. If the character has the power to step out of the speed steal, and the durability, toughness, or whatever keeps them on their feet, they can reverse the flow of time. They can mystically stop the progression of time, while being outside of times influence. The Odin Force is capable of doing just that. Odin has done it on panel, as has Thor himself, while only possessing the Odin Force.

What is not being understood is what the Power Cosmic did to Thor as an All Father. He was buffed in the same way that a normal mortal man like Norrin Radd was also buffed. The implications of CK Thor becoming hundreds to even millions of times more powerful than a Sky Father of his power level is plausible. He did defeat a being capable of quickly destroying entire Universes after all.

Power Cosmic users have bent time, reversed time, placed other powerful beings in time loops, etc. Odin, and Thor have stopped time on separate occasions.

The Power Cosmic staves off exhaustion, likely canceling Thor’s need to sleep, granting him near inexhaustible stamina. He has spells that are capable of separating soul from it’s body, raising the dead.

A regular high powered Sky Father can typically toss stars at their opponents as seen in the battle with Old King Thor vs Gorr.

The Black Winter made Knull look like a light weight. Speed had no effect on Knull as well, from my recollection. It was once said that speed did not fully apply to Darkseid as well, which is a curious statement within itself.

What I am saying, like I have been saying all along, is that CK Thor may not be affected by a time steal like many others because of his own ability to step outside of the time stream, and I highly doubt that an IMP would one shot him.

Originally posted by Stoic
Ah, you activated my Trap Card… lol kidding.

Temporarily is exactly what I mean. If the character has the power to step out of the speed steal, and the durability, toughness, or whatever keeps them on their feet, they can reverse the flow of time. They can mystically stop the progression of time, while being outside of times influence. The Odin Force is capable of doing just that. Odin has done it on panel, as has Thor himself, while only possessing the Odin Force.

What is not being understood is what the Power Cosmic did to Thor as an All Father. He was buffed in the same way that a normal mortal man like Norrin Radd was also buffed. The implications of CK Thor becoming hundreds to even millions of times more powerful than a Sky Father of his power level is plausible. He did defeat a being capable of quickly destroying entire Universes after all.

Power Cosmic users have bent time, reversed time, placed other powerful beings in time loops, etc. Odin, and Thor have stopped time on separate occasions.

The Power Cosmic staves off exhaustion, likely canceling Thor’s need to sleep, granting him near inexhaustible stamina. He has spells that are capable of separating soul from it’s body, raising the dead.

A regular high powered Sky Father can typically toss stars at their opponents as seen in the battle with Old King Thor vs Gorr.

The Black Winter made Knull look like a light weight. Speed had no effect on Knull as well, from my recollection. It was once said that speed did not fully apply to Darkseid as well, which is a curious statement within itself.

What I am saying, like I have been saying all along, is that CK Thor may not be affected by a time steal like many others because of his own ability to step outside of the time stream, and I highly doubt that an IMP would one shot him.

Double post, just to say that you're just vomiting useless walls of text, lol. It sounds like you're just clinging to this fantasy version of Thor, with nothing backing it up whatsoever.

It's simple. If Thor has kinetic energy, it gets removed. Doesn't matter if he is amped a billion or a trillion times, if he still has kinetic energy it can get stolen. Cosmic Thor did nothing of the sort when he had the PC, otherwise I'm sure you'd have posted it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Speed did affect Knull.

He caught Sentry easily enough.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Double post, just to say that you're just vomiting useless walls of text, lol. It sounds like you're just clinging to this fantasy version of Thor, with nothing backing it up whatsoever.

It's simple. If Thor has kinetic energy, it gets removed. Doesn't matter if he is amped a billion or a trillion times, if he still has kinetic energy it can get stolen. Cosmic Thor did nothing of the sort when he had the PC, otherwise I'm sure you'd have posted it.

Cosmic Thor has the Odin Force which is easily capable of time manipulation. That is a fact. Canon fact actually. Plot is why you did not see it. It was not needed. Thor is actually more powerful than Odin was as the All Father at base levels.

Your kinetic force argument is great without a means of undoing it. However, when another character actually has the ability in an all out battle that disregards character, type match, all abilities are to be considered. Not what you allow to be considered.

Originally posted by Stoic
He caught Sentry easily enough.

Cosmic Thor has the Odin Force which is easily capable of time manipulation. That is a fact. Canon fact actually. Plot is why you did not see it. It was not needed. Thor is actually more powerful than Odin was as the All Father at base levels.

Your kinetic force argument is great without a means of undoing it. However, when another character actually has the ability in an all out battle that disregards character, type match, all abilities are to be considered. Not what you allow to be considered.

Yet Wraith outdrew him when injured. Surfer blasted him just fine. Maybe he took Sentry out because of his connection to the Void.

Or character. Thor would prefer to bash his opponent's head in with Mjolnir, or blast with powerful energy blasts.

Where does it say character is disregarded?

Originally posted by Stoic
He caught Sentry easily enough.

Cosmic Thor has the Odin Force which is easily capable of time manipulation. That is a fact. Canon fact actually. Plot is why you did not see it. It was not needed. Thor is actually more powerful than Odin was as the All Father at base levels.

Your kinetic force argument is great without a means of undoing it. However, when another character actually has the ability in an all out battle that disregards character, type match, all abilities are to be considered. Not what you allow to be considered.

Cosmic Thor > Black Winter > Regular Thor> Depowered Throg > Entire Justice League amped by KMC's hate for Thor > weakened Rock Em Sock Em Robot > Composite Flash

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Cosmic Thor > Black Winter > Regular Thor> Depowered Throg > Entire Justice League amped by KMC's hate for Thor > weakened Rock Em Sock Em Robot > Composite Flash

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Double post, just to say that you're just vomiting useless walls of text, lol. It sounds like you're just clinging to this fantasy version of Thor, with nothing backing it up whatsoever.

It's simple. If Thor has kinetic energy, it gets removed. Doesn't matter if he is amped a billion or a trillion times, if he still has kinetic energy it can get stolen. Cosmic Thor did nothing of the sort when he had the PC, otherwise I'm sure you'd have posted it.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Cosmic Thor > Black Winter > Regular Thor> Depowered Throg > Entire Justice League amped by KMC's hate for Thor > weakened Rock Em Sock Em Robot > Composite Flash

Originally posted by ODG
Is it your intention to counter what you perceive to be a no-limits fallacy with an argument that itself is also a no-limits fallacy? I'll be honest, I've not tracked this conversation closely enough but this stuck out to me. Cosmic Thor defeated the Black Winter, yes. But we all know the context that if he wasn't able to strip/manipulate an amped Galactus' energies, Cosmic Thor woulda been toast, right?

Well, I put a Rock Em Sock Em Robot into the mix so everyone knows I mean business in this debate.

Originally posted by MrMind
this is pretty simple

CIS OFF, FULL CAPACITY

CIS off full capacity.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
When did he do this? Or are you using a different version of the one in the thread?

I’m using the Odin Force at full capacity, the Power Cosmic, Mjolnir,, and his weather manipulation abilities at full capacity, while also being completely out of character to any given plot. You are stating the same for the Flash, but when you do it, no one is there saying that’s not possible when it actually happened on panel. The Odin Force is still the Odin Force, as is the Power Cosmic.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Well, I put a Rock Em Sock Em Robot into the mix so everyone knows I mean business in this debate.

The Odin Force makes one wiser, basically all knowing. Do we assume that Thor has never seen what his father did while in the possession of the Odin Force? This is an actual living entity that has not changed no matter what book it has been in.

As the possessor of the Odin Force, should we assume that All Father Thor is unaware of the limits of his power? It’s kind of like trying to ignore the Wisdom of Solomon, because one of the Odin Force’s gifts happens to be knowledge, as Odin was called the all knowing.

Originally posted by Stoic
CIS off full capacity.

I’m using the Odin Force at full capacity, the Power Cosmic, Mjolnir,, and his weather manipulation abilities at full capacity, while also being completely out of character to any given plot. You are stating the same for the Flash, but when you do it, no one is there saying that’s not possible when it actually happened on panel. The Odin Force is still the Odin Force, as is the Power Cosmic.

It wouldn’t necessarily be out of character, especially since this characterization actually possesses the Odin Force. It is not something beyond his reach in a match that they are allowed to use their powers to the best of their ability. It took him a moment to decide to stop time when he possessed the Odin Force before, and it was a canon showing.

Let’s peer over to Wally West, the most tactically minded hero to exist. He has a human soul, and is also in possession of a power that has a history of leaving it’s host, or being gummed up.

There is absolutely no reason why Sky Father Thor with the Power Cosmic could not step out of time, and freeze it himself, he does have that power.

Because by the time he thinks to step out of time, he's already frozen.

That moment that he took, would be a lifetime to Wally.

Saint stop lol..u all get carried away to easily

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because by the time he thinks to step out of time, he's already frozen.

That moment that he took, would be a lifetime to Wally.

Wards, the Odin Force would not be held by something that it actually controls. It is one of the abilities granted to an Odin Force host.

RK Thor would do the very same thing, as would Micheal Korvak, the Beyonder, the Living Tribunal, the Black Winter, Kubik, and others that can actually control the flow of time.

The rules again state full capacity. CK Thor had so a crazy ton of powers. Just being an All Father grants a shit ton of powers alone. It does actually come with a hand book as well, since it automatically grants the bearer the knowledge of just what he can do.

Plot did not require that he fought against a speedster, therefore it was never written that way. He has the the power as an All Father alone to deny separate Flash’s connection to the Speed Force by using magical rune seals.

Who cares if the speed steal works, if one can step out of it and reverse time to a point and then freeze it themselves? While doing this why then could he not separate the Flash from his publicly known connection to the Speed Force?

You continue to talk about this as if it were going to be a linear event, while willfully ignoring that Thor with the Odin Force can also control linear events, and as stated, if he knew that he was coming into a match with a speedster of this level, he would prepare for the fight.

Or, are you viewing this once again where one side throws the punches, while the other sits there asking to be pummeled? Which is it?

I feel like this is still a relevant question:

Originally posted by ODG
Haven't read the thread much but maybe a cogent question to ask/answer would be: who has Wally West speed-stolen from that is similar to (or above) the level of Cosmic Thor.

No one. People ignore this though