Originally posted by Stoic
Wards, the Odin Force would not be held by something that it actually controls. It is one of the abilities granted to an Odin Force host.RK Thor would do the very same thing, as would Micheal Korvak, the Beyonder, the Living Tribunal, the Black Winter, Kubik, and others that can actually control the flow of time.
The rules again state full capacity. CK Thor had so a crazy ton of powers. Just being an All Father grants a shit ton of powers alone. It does actually come with a hand book as well, since it automatically grants the bearer the knowledge of just what he can do.
Plot did not require that he fought against a speedster, therefore it was never written that way. He has the the power as an All Father alone to deny separate Flash’s connection to the Speed Force by using magical rune seals.
Who cares if the speed steal works, if one can step out of it and reverse time to a point and then freeze it themselves? While doing this why then could he not separate the Flash from his publicly known connection to the Speed Force?
You continue to talk about this as if it were going to be a linear event, while willfully ignoring that Thor with the Odin Force can also control linear events, and as stated, if he knew that he was coming into a match with a speedster of this level, he would prepare for the fight.
Or, are you viewing this once again where one side throws the punches, while the other sits there asking to be pummeled? Which is it?
People have tried cutting him off. Couldn't do it.
And the latter.
Not to mention, prep is against forum rules in a match that doesn't specify it.
Originally posted by ODG
Why stop there? Surely, in 100 milliseconds he can kill 100 Cosmic Thors with 1,000,000 punches each. After all, this is based on absolutely no comics whatsoever.
none of this is based on comic book situation, and they are from 2 characters from 2 different companies
this is what the full capacity rule is for
let me ask you a couple questions
1. can flash hurt this thor with punches, if he can, how many punches do you think a full capacity flash can throw in a milisecond?
2. do you think cosmic thor can react to the initial blitze of a full capacity flash
Originally posted by ODG
Bruh, that's my point. If Flash doesn't have a load of on-panel feats where he defeats a comic character on the level of Cosmic Thor with a million punches in a millisecond... why are you trying to argue that result?
because full capacity almost never happen with flash, flash rarely goes millions times lightspeed and throw punches that hit like white dwarf star, but he has done so.
so again i ask
1. can flash hurt this thor with punches, if he can, how many punches do you think a full capacity flash can throw in a milisecond?
2. do you think cosmic thor can react to the initial blitze of a full capacity flash
Originally posted by MrMindAlmost never? Yet... we're speaking about a comic character that has thousands of appearances and you cannot even cite to a single on-panel example supporting a result like defeating a Cosmic Thor-level foe with a million punches in a millisecond?
because full capacity almost never happen with flash, flash rarely goes millions times lightspeed and throw punches that hit like white dwarf star, but he has done so.
And, yet... the burden of proof is on me to prove otherwise?
This is what's called a negative proof fallacy.
I literally have nothing to argue against other than your imaginary (and unsupported) premise.
I find it increasingly ludicrous that when I try to bring the discussion closer to the comics themselves in these kind of debates... I am somehow the poster who is disregarding the comic character.
Originally posted by ODG
Almost never? Yet... we're speaking about a comic character that has thousands of appearances and you cannot even cite to a single on-panel example supporting a result like defeating a Cosmic Thor-level foe with a million punches in a millisecond?And, yet... the burden of proof is on me to prove otherwise?
This is what's called a negative proof fallacy.
I literally have nothing to argue against other than your imaginary (and unsupported) premise.
I find it increasingly ludicrous that when I try to bring the discussion closer to the comics themselves in these kind of debates... I am somehow the poster who is disregarding the comic character.
Maybe the argument boils down to scaling
Originally posted by ODG
^ Maybe the argument shouldn't start with a no-limit fallacy based on absolutely no on-panel evidence and then clumsily flipped onto naysayers with a limp negative proof fallacy.But hey, that's just me.
I get it. I honestly think Flash loses. I can't see him hurting a trans tier level flying brick. I'm referring to the speed steal argument. I think people automatically scale JayvSupes and say in the old man can do it to Clark then Wally can stop an abstract. But like you said he hasn't done anything resembling what's suggested to someone that high up so moot argument
Originally posted by ODG
Didn't he utilize the Speedforce of the Flash family to do so?
I don't know why you think(or at least, suggests) he needed other Flash family members help to do it tbh
Is because other Flashes alluded they felt the Speed Force was drained? Then, it is due to Speed Force was nearly burnt out at this time
That is why Batmanhattan tried to use Dark Multiverse flashes to catch them
This actually makes the feat more impressive, since Wally timestopped Batmanhattan, when the Speed Force was at its weakest
What would standard equipment mean for Thor of Asgard these days? Full capacity means that he could use anything within his vast arsenal as equipment, such as Rune magic that allows him to stand outside of time as Odin has done on panel, as he himself was shown to do on panel, and is still canon. Rune magic has defenses against being stuck in time. It is magic. Runes set in armor is not outside of his character to wear. It is very much in character. He would be expected to show up dressed for the occasion.
What happens with Batmanhattan, is not the same thing as dealing with spells that themselves bend the laws of science with their own defenses. Odin has literally stood outside of time manipulating it. He would never be ensnared in the first place. He’d actually be the one in control of the entire exchange, as Wally can do things like fall asleep, and be whisked away in a dream, ending this without anyone even being hurt. The Odin Force is pretty hefty when it comes to telepathy as well.
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998I never said he needed other Flash family members to do it. After all, the only other time he did it, he didn't need them. But here, Wally literally "combin[ed] the formula and [their] abilities":
I don't know why you think(or at least, suggests) he needed other Flash family members help to do it tbh
I interpreted that to be Wally referring to their running. Like a royal we.
Originally posted by ODG
I never said he needed other Flash family members to do it. After all, the only other time he did it, he didn't need them. But here, Wally literally "combin[ed] the formula and [their] abilities":
I.E, Speed Force now needed to provide both of Flash family's powers and the Speed Force Formula power, thus it being burnt out faster
Combing the formula and out abilities puts an extra strain on the Speed Force and---Accelerates the burnout
It actually spelled out to you what Batmanhattan was pushing against
You can feel that monster pushing against the Speed Force Formual
Just finished my work, now back to my PC. I think I can elaborate my point further
First of all, "combine" this word can be used to refer you do two things simultanesouly
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/combine
And then I think we all agreed that the Speed Force Formula is the thing has timestop attribute and it's a different way tapping into the Speed Force, as it stated in the comic
https://i.ibb.co/TtQ1rVN/6.jpg
Originally posted by ODG
I never said he needed other Flash family members to do it. After all, the only other time he did it, he didn't need them.
I also think we agreed that Batmanhatan was timestopped in that scene
Then what he was tried breaking free from/pushing against?
The Speed Force Formula
https://i.ibb.co/R95cXN3/5.jpg
We also have the story multiple times referred the Speed Force was almost burnt out, and when Flashes used their speed/abilities, they put pressure on the Speed Force
https://ibb.co/HVBPkpC
https://ibb.co/9cvv8QP
https://ibb.co/g7p895H
We also see Jay still has his speed after Wally timestopped Batmanhattan, and when he felt exhaustion, he attributed it to the strain of the Speed Force, not just his own Speed Force/abilities
In summary:
1) The timestop is a property of Speed Force Formula
2) TBWL was timestopped
3) TBWL was pushing against Speed Force Formula
4) Speed Force Formula is a different way to tap into the Speed Force
5) Flashes burning the Speed Force out when they running/using their abilities
6) Jay still has his speed, so it's not like his speedforce was used to merge with SFF to timestop TBWL, and he attributed his exhaustion to the strain on the Speed Force, not just his abilities
So take above all into consideration, the word "combine" in the context is likely to refer the Speed Force now not only needed to provide the energy for Flash Family, but also the Speed Force Formula
