Firestorm vs Silver Surfer

Originally posted by abhilegend
Did you miss the part where Firestorm brought the person back. Surfer can't even transmute back Human Torch when he was mutated by magic.

Range=/=power. Not to mention Surfer has been transmuted himself.

You do know that's Surfer version 2.0 right, that just shows you the extent of his power and like I said his character developed over the years that now his able to fight off reality manipulation and not once but a couple of times.

/\/\/\ that was the past and this is the present.

both have limits but at the end of it all Surfer just has a much more higher end feat.

Surfers got the range and the power.

Originally posted by Ambient
intact he was able to reverse the process he did to them but in pieces he couldn't put them back hence the limitation.

You do know that's Surfer version 2.0 right, that just shows you the extent of his power and like I said his character developed over the years that now his able to fight off reality manipulation and not once but a couple of times.

/\/\/\ that was the past and this is the present.

both have limits but at the end of it all Surfer just has a much more higher end feat.

Surfers got the range and the power.

First scan is from SS v4? What's even happened there?

Surfer overcame reality manipulation? Good for him, how does it matter for transmutation?

Originally posted by abhilegend
What are you blabbering about?

First scan is from SS v4? What's even happened there?

Surfer overcame reality manipulation? Good for him, how does it matter for transmutation?

The few reasons why his tier above FS pretty much my exact point is.

Originally posted by Ambient
Ellis she’s reality manipulator the other Tyrant with reality gem. Both use the reality manipulation on him and beat reverse it’s effect. Reality manipulates what is space and time and anything within; energy, matter and the likes. This is the highest form of manipulation and surfer can fend it off and put it back to what it was. Get it his matter manipulation abilities can fend of reality manipulation, heck it allows him to exist outside reality

The few reasons why his tier above FS pretty much my exact point is.

Stop babbling like an idiot.

😂 reality manipulation deals everything in reality; space time matter energy …. When one manipulates reality it manipulate all those aspect. What do you think the concept of reality is? 🤦‍♂️

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The last part is vastly overlooked.

The thread has Ronnie and Jason as a composite. No Martin Stein, no Gehenna. We're essentially dealing with a Carver High School alumnus here.

Because I think we all agree that with current versions, the Jason/Stein Firestorm cannot affect anything organic unless they have prep and concentration. It's even worse when they're distracted or in a fight.

While despite Surfer's varying/conflicting matter manipulation feats, Surfer can affect organic matter whether or not he has prep or concentration, even during a knock down, drag out fight with a peer opposing him.

So, is the Jason/Ronnie composite superior to the Jason/Stein composite?

Originally posted by Ambient
😂 reality manipulation deals everything in reality; space time matter energy …. When one manipulates reality it manipulate all those aspect. What do you think the concept of reality is? 🤦‍♂️

Originally posted by abhilegend
Except Surfer didn't manipulate reality, he resisted it.

Exactly he resisted it mid-activation and put everything back to normal. His matter manipulation is in the utmost top and borders reality manipulation, as shown in the scan below when he remove himself out of reality for billions of years.

He has the been shown with a finesse to do exotic manipulation with more wider range in a larger scale (power + range) than I have seen of FS therefore in my point of view his a much better matter manipulator …

Originally posted by Ambient

Exactly he resisted it mid-activation and put everything back to normal. His matter manipulation is in the utmost top and borders reality manipulation, as shown in the scan below when he remove himself out of reality for billions of years.

He has the been shown with a finesse to do exotic manipulation with more wider range in a larger scale (power + range) than I have seen of FS therefore in my point of view his a much better matter manipulator …

Also he wasn't phased out of reality. Never Queen could watch him even when he was phased.

Phasing out of reality isn't reality manipulation either. You're grasping at straws.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He didn't put anything back to normal, he used reality gem to do that.

Also he wasn't phased out of reality. Never Queen could watch him even when he was phased.

Phasing out of reality isn't reality manipulation either. You're grasping at straws.

So now your going up against the writers narration 😂 so they’re wrong? and you do know who Never Queen is right?

It even shows you on panel thru art and narration that his joining back reality. Who’s gasping for straws now?

Ohh and I never said surfer has reality manipulation powers or can manipulate reality, what I said was his matter manipulation is borders that shown via when he took himself out of 616 universe.

But what stops the Surfer from sending his board speeding towards Firestorm at multiple times the speed of light cutting him in two? Is there anything that would nullify this from happening?

Originally posted by Ambient
There’s a reason why I posted those scans abhi - take a look at it please before you reply. It was all on his own …

So now your going up against the writers narration 😂 so they’re wrong? and you do know who Never Queen is right?

It even shows you on panel thru art and narration that his joining back reality. Who’s gasping for straws now?

Originally posted by Ambient
Ohh and I never said surfer has reality manipulation powers or can manipulate reality, what I said was his matter manipulation is borders that shown via when he took himself out of 616 universe.

Originally posted by Stoic
But what stops the Surfer from sending his board speeding towards Firestorm at multiple times the speed of light cutting him in two? Is there anything that would nullify this from happening?

"cis off full capacity"

Originally posted by Smurph
"cis off full capacity"

but in the flash vs thor thread odg said it has to happen in comics for it to count

even though it's cis off full capacity

or do marvel fans just pick and choose whatever suit their agenda?

Originally posted by MrMind
but in the flash vs thor thread odg said it has to happen in comics for it to count

even though it's cis off full capacity

or do marvel fans just pick and choose whatever suit their agenda?

but sure, is that the standard we're all settled on? in a cis off, full capacity thread, behaviour should still reflect the comics? jockey

Can he do it? Yes, we’ve seen him do it while only trying to subdue, but since this is full capacity, killing is not off of the table for either.

Originally posted by Smurph
i'm not ODG, so... if he says something and I say something different, that's not an example of one person picking and choosing their stance??

but sure, is that the standard we're all settled on? in a cis off, full capacity thread, behaviour should still reflect the comics? jockey

that's what odg said in the wally vs cosmic thor thread

im just making a little snarky comment

don't take it to heart

I agree with you in this argument, in cis off full capacity battles we value powersets>>>feats

Originally posted by Smurph
"cis off full capacity"

Originally posted by MrMind
that's what odg said in the wally vs cosmic thor thread

im just making a little snarky comment

don't take it to heart

I agree with you in this argument, in cis off full capacity battles we value powersets>>>feats

and I actually think ODG is mostly right, but I just want a consistent standard.