Count Nefaria Vs Hercules, speed equalised, no heat vision

Originally posted by Stoic
It was their original strength classification. Hercules always had a slight edge in strength. Thor was originally within the upper class 95 tier, which as we know did not necessarily mean that that their upper strength limit was 95 tons. Thor has lifted far more than that. The Thing as an example presses more than 100 tons.

h1 isn’t seeing that without the added speed, Nefaria would have had a much more difficult time dealing with Thor, but because of his speed couple with decent energy projection he was always a step ahead of Thor.

If that's all you're going by, the Handbooks and other sources have long since changed that. Websites have put both at Class 100 for like 20 years plus, multiple Handbooks had Class 100, even the old 90's trading card put them at 7/7. A 6/7 was UP TO 100 tons, 7/7 over.

But the comics>Handbooks/etc. I had assumed you were going by those. Other sources are supplemental.

Originally posted by Delta1938
If that's all you're going by, the Handbooks and other sources have long since changed that. Websites have put both at Class 100 for like 20 years plus, multiple Handbooks had Class 100, even the old 90's trading card put them at 7/7. A 6/7 was UP TO 100 tons, 7/7 over.

But the comics>Handbooks/etc. I had assumed you were going by those. Other sources are supplemental.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Nefaria's origin was he drained the majority of the power of 3 villains and took them except amplified(I think 100 times) and one of them had superhuman speed.

Originally posted by h1a8
I take "a bit" means a lot to Stoic. I could be wrong.

You are indeed, wrong. Basic English, as you would say

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You are indeed, wrong. Basic English, as you would say

Standard English has nothing to do with how people speak.
On many occasions people have used "a bit" in the place of " quite a bit". Whether they were using non standard English is irrelevant.

Originally posted by Stoic
If Hercules is a 100, Thor was a 95. Nefaria wouldn’t get the chance to exert his combat dominance, because in this case he’d be getting schooled. You ever see Heartbreak Ridge?

5% difference.

Originally posted by h1a8
Only he can confirm that. You just have a BELIEF

Standard English has nothing to do with how people speak.
On many occasions people have used "a bit" in the place of " quite a bit". Whether they were using non standard English is irrelevant.

The only time I've seen this was people sarcastically saying "bit." Fair enough if you thought sarcasm.

In this case Thor would kick Nefaria’s ass too. He’s overly dependent on his powers to pull him through.

Originally posted by Stoic
In this case Thor would kick Nefaria’s ass too. He’s overly dependent on his powers to pull him through.

Hi Stoic, when you said 'a bit', was your intent to mean 'a lot'?

No I actually said that if Hercules was 100 Thor would be 95.

This isn’t a contest , Hercules would embarrass Nefaria.

Only in your dreams

Originally posted by h1a8
I stand corrected. I don't remember Nefaria using any significant type of superspeed when he fought the avengers those few times.

His speed was commented on, shown or both multiple times. Wanda reacting to him hitting Beast.

https://bit.ly/3S5tlXR

Yellow Jacket saying it was impossible for someone to move that quick

https://bit.ly/3MzwVII

After Captain America and Beast work together to throw the shield, Nefaria himself commenting he's fast enough to catch Cap's shield out of the air. Narration also says he throws the shield so fast Black Panther can't dodge it, but that could easily be strength instead of the writer intending it a speed feat(but thought I'd point it out).

https://bit.ly/3EVcVya

When Whizzer attacks him at superhuman speed, Nefaria mentions he(Nefaria) has the speed of Whirlwind multiplied 100 times and strike Whizzer.

https://bit.ly/3rWXUEF

Nefaria says to Wanda her brother's speed pales compared to him while blitzing the Avengers.

https://bit.ly/3S76eMC

I don't know about later times he faced the Avengers, but this was when he got his powers.

Originally posted by Stoic
This isn’t a contest , Hercules would embarrass Nefaria.

Did Nefaria get some kind of downgrade in power? Because he was way above Thor to the point skill is irrelevant unless you're Karate Kid level. Nefaria had to adjust at times, maybe his mindset effected his powers, could just be lack of confidence. As he would go from doing poorly to dominating when after he realized he was above them.

Against Wonder Man he went from losing to winning in the same page(attacked once the page before).

https://bit.ly/3MzwVII

https://bit.ly/3TuHxLh

Note he said he wasn't prepared due to inexperience.You think that means Hercules will take him before he can get used to it? Unless he had the downgrade I asked, I doubt it. His Thor fight went from this--

https://bit.ly/3MEfLtn

https://bit.ly/3yPFUzJ

https://bit.ly/3T0p8Gd

--to this--

https://bit.ly/3Twe6Zf

https://bit.ly/3VwXJ0c

Note how much Nefaria is talking about Mjolnir. Even if Hercules were slightly stronger(which your only argument is outdated), he doesn't have Mjolnir to compensate to any degree for the difference between him and Nefaria. Unless you're arguing he's KK level skill?

Even after being told the process is rapidly aging him and he'll die in two days--

https://bit.ly/3EJFRJC

--he treats Thor like this--

https://bit.ly/3yOwG70

Not sure if the aging had an effect on him outside his confidence (as we see his performance was effected by it as he does better as the fights go on) but him dying in 2 days was a lie, as he would actually be effectively immortal.

https://bit.ly/3D5xKGc

But it took a combined effort from the Avengers to beat him in that state of mind, far more than Hercules can offer in raw power. So do you have evidence Nefaria got downgraded in power, or are you arguing his skill is KK level?

Pankration > Karate

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Pankration > Karate

Darn, can't argue with that.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Did Nefaria get some kind of downgrade in power? Because he was way above Thor to the point skill is irrelevant unless you're Karate Kid level. Nefaria had to adjust at times, maybe his mindset effected his powers, could just be lack of confidence. As he would go from doing poorly to dominating when after he realized he was above them.

Against Wonder Man he went from losing to winning in the same page(attacked once the page before).

https://bit.ly/3MzwVII

https://bit.ly/3TuHxLh

Note he said he wasn't prepared due to inexperience.You think that means Hercules will take him before he can get used to it? Unless he had the downgrade I asked, I doubt it. His Thor fight went from this--

https://bit.ly/3MEfLtn

https://bit.ly/3yPFUzJ

https://bit.ly/3T0p8Gd

--to this--

https://bit.ly/3Twe6Zf

https://bit.ly/3VwXJ0c

Note how much Nefaria is talking about Mjolnir. Even if Hercules were slightly stronger(which your only argument is outdated), he doesn't have Mjolnir to compensate to any degree for the difference between him and Nefaria. Unless you're arguing he's KK level skill?

Even after being told the process is rapidly aging him and he'll die in two days--

https://bit.ly/3EJFRJC

--he treats Thor like this--

https://bit.ly/3yOwG70

Not sure if the aging had an effect on him outside his confidence (as we see his performance was effected by it as he does better as the fights go on) but him dying in 2 days was a lie, as he would actually be effectively immortal.

https://bit.ly/3D5xKGc

But it took a combined effort from the Avengers to beat him in that state of mind, far more than Hercules can offer in raw power. So do you have evidence Nefaria got downgraded in power, or are you arguing his skill is KK level?

Originally posted by ODG
I think Count Nefaria was revealed to be a sort of ionic vampire with fluctuating levels of ionic power. While at his peak, he was clearly a teamwrecker, his subsequent lower showings could be conveniently explained away. I'm not sure he has ever matched that initial teamwrecker showing.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Did Nefaria get some kind of downgrade in power? Because he was way above Thor to the point skill is irrelevant unless you're Karate Kid level. Nefaria had to adjust at times, maybe his mindset effected his powers, could just be lack of confidence. As he would go from doing poorly to dominating when after he realized he was above them.

Against Wonder Man he went from losing to winning in the same page(attacked once the page before).

https://bit.ly/3MzwVII

https://bit.ly/3TuHxLh

Note he said he wasn't prepared due to inexperience.You think that means Hercules will take him before he can get used to it? Unless he had the downgrade I asked, I doubt it. His Thor fight went from this--

https://bit.ly/3MEfLtn

https://bit.ly/3yPFUzJ

https://bit.ly/3T0p8Gd

--to this--

https://bit.ly/3Twe6Zf

https://bit.ly/3VwXJ0c

Note how much Nefaria is talking about Mjolnir. Even if Hercules were slightly stronger(which your only argument is outdated), he doesn't have Mjolnir to compensate to any degree for the difference between him and Nefaria. Unless you're arguing he's KK level skill?

Even after being told the process is rapidly aging him and he'll die in two days--

https://bit.ly/3EJFRJC

--he treats Thor like this--

https://bit.ly/3yOwG70

Not sure if the aging had an effect on him outside his confidence (as we see his performance was effected by it as he does better as the fights go on) but him dying in 2 days was a lie, as he would actually be effectively immortal.

https://bit.ly/3D5xKGc

But it took a combined effort from the Avengers to beat him in that state of mind, far more than Hercules can offer in raw power. So do you have evidence Nefaria got downgraded in power, or are you arguing his skill is KK level?

His combat skills are neophyte level at best, while Herc is a pro. This is why I imagine this to be a no contest where Herc should logically school him if they are limited to what is being asked of by the OP. For example, if Mike Tyson fought the strongest man on Earth, he should win because the strongest man of Earth isn't a fighter of renown.

Originally posted by Delta1938
His speed was commented on, shown or both multiple times. Wanda reacting to him hitting Beast.

https://bit.ly/3S5tlXR

Yellow Jacket saying it was impossible for someone to move that quick

https://bit.ly/3MzwVII

After Captain America and Beast work together to throw the shield, Nefaria himself commenting he's fast enough to catch Cap's shield out of the air. Narration also says he throws the shield so fast Black Panther can't dodge it, but that could easily be strength instead of the writer intending it a speed feat(but thought I'd point it out).

https://bit.ly/3EVcVya

When Whizzer attacks him at superhuman speed, Nefaria mentions he(Nefaria) has the speed of Whirlwind multiplied 100 times and strike Whizzer.

https://bit.ly/3rWXUEF

Nefaria says to Wanda her brother's speed pales compared to him while blitzing the Avengers.

https://bit.ly/3S76eMC

I don't know about later times he faced the Avengers, but this was when he got his powers.

I said significant. Significant is like faster than a bullet Imo. But from those scans I would say he's faster than Herc.