Originally posted by carver9
This is fts outside of DOS. If Spiderman, Captain America and Aunt May would've defeated WWH when he was at his angriest in a fist fight and Hulk would've went all out on Bucky failing to kill him, we can't ignore this. I wouldn't throw up a ft from em vs Hulk to say that WWH is all powerful, especially if I don't have anything to lean on in the story (World at War). Death of Superman was just trash ass writing.
It's a feat inside the same timeline as Dos by the same writer no less.
You are saying we can't ignore stuff while you sit there ignoring things.
The only thing that *might* be "trash writing" is some of the Leaguers surviving Doomsday's casual assaults, or, it might be fine writing given the fact that he was toying with them while laughing through the entire event up til Supes went all in at him in Metropolis. Dos doesn't exist inside a vacuum.
Originally posted by carver9
Yes, you can nitpick and find low showing from different stories, for anybody but when an entire story is showing the character operating at meta level with no sign of being powerful, that's the problem. There's absolutely no depiction of Doomsday operating at high tier levels in the entire book. None. That includes Superman and the rest of the league. Yes, if there were at least something showing Doomsday being Herald to trans tier, this argument wouldnt even be discussed right now but every single character was operating at trash tier. So yes, you can point out a low showing from a story but I can point at the entire story of DOS being outright garbage with you having nothing "in that story" to argue against what I am saying. The argument isn't Superman or Doomsday operating above a certain tier AFTER OR BEFORE DOS. The argument is, while Doomsday was fighting the league and Superman and even his own solo fts in the story, they were all operating at meta tier.
You ignored Booster Gold getting blitzed by Doomsday 2 times with one of those times including a reference to Flash, on top of multiple other instances of speed either shown or referenced then decided to nitpick that Booster barely got his shield up in the time that it took Doomsday to walk to him... So... Who exactly are you to talk about nitpicking here?
I'm not sure which part of collapsing skyscraper sized super structures as a byproduct of collateral was meta level precisely much less several of the other feats already established in the discussion...
"The argument isn't Superman or Doomsday operating above a certain tier AFTER OR BEFORE DOS" Wrong... Everything that canonically exists before the Dos event, in the Dos continuity *certainly* applies to the characters that appeared in Dos... The event does not exist inside a vacuum simply by the merit of your insisting it needs to be.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Kraven was immortal back then and seeked ways to end himself.But that example could be replaced with any other streets/low metas surviving encounters with Class 100s, naturally.
Originally posted by carver9
Juggernaut have 100s of fts he can lean on, this thread is about DEATH OF SUPERMAN Doomsday. Tell me fts from that story that makes you think he can beat Juggernaut who have access to all of his fts. I'm asking you to mention fts specifically from DOS that gives Doomsday an edge in a fight against Juggernaut who have all of his fts. I can't wait and know that I will counter you with scans already posted here
So basically *you think* that since the title reads "Dos Doomsday" that the o.p. meant for Doomsday only in those pages and those pages alone to be considered for discussion and not Doomsday *up to that point* in his own chronological history?
Hm, who knows... If your interpretation is accurate you may have a lot more merit to your position... If not though, then you need to reframe... We need a word from the o.p. on which interpretation was the one he/she specifically meant then...
Beyond that I'm making the point about Juggernaut as an anologue to your lowball, I'm not making an argument about Doomsday vs Juggy...
Beating Superman to his demise is in fact a feat.
Originally posted by jinzin
I stand corrected... So many people have brought that example up and never fleshed out that context. That's what I get. Fair enough... Now what's his excuse?...
What Hulk issue is this so that I can read the entire story line and see if it's filled with nothing but low showings for Hulk. Nothing dictating his power level. Also, Hulk naturally holds back unlike Doomsday due to Banner controlling his rage/punching power.
Originally posted by jinzin
So basically *you think* that since the title reads "Dos Doomsday" that the o.p. meant for Doomsday only in those pages and those pages alone to be considered for discussion and not Doomsday *up to that point* in his own chronological history?
Hm, who knows... If your interpretation is accurate you may have a lot more merit to your position... If not though, then you need to reframe... We need a word from the o.p. on which interpretation was the one he/she specifically meant then...Beyond that I'm making the point about Juggernaut as an anologue to your lowball, I'm not making an argument about Doomsday vs Juggy...
Beating Superman to his demise is in fact a feat.
No, there's no thinking about this. The title is named DOS Doomsday which means we only use showings from that story. If the author wants to use other showings outside of DOS, he needs to clarify that.
Again, I wouldn't even mention Doomsday being trapped by mud if it was a one off showing in the book but it's not. The entire book is full of trash, so the mud showing holds weight here.
Originally posted by jinzin
So basically *you think* that since the title reads "Dos Doomsday" that the o.p. meant for Doomsday only in those pages and those pages alone to be considered for discussion and not Doomsday *up to that point* in his own chronological history?
Hm, who knows... If your interpretation is accurate you may have a lot more merit to your position... If not though, then you need to reframe... We need a word from the o.p. on which interpretation was the one he/she specifically meant then...Beyond that I'm making the point about Juggernaut as an anologue to your lowball, I'm not making an argument about Doomsday vs Juggy...
Beating Superman to his demise is in fact a feat.
Even if he was....he's then erroneously applying this limitation to ALL characters in the story. Superman is limited to his DoS feats.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What energy durability feats does BiBeast have OUTSIDE the HotM storyline?What you're arguing is one step away from relying on respect threads. You're saying ignore a character's entire history, and only use their showings in specific stories, even if they're not being limited by the thread.
You want to limit Doomsday to DoS showings? Sure. But to limit Superman to those showings, to limit Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, is wrong.
Imagine I turned it around on you, and said "actually, Blue Beetle is herald level, based on him tanking these attacks in DoS". Remember, we're limiting them, right? So all these characters are actually heralds. You can't use showings from other comics, or their bios, nothing - only what we see. So you can't say he's a mere human.
This. This all day.
You can't argue any of them are human with this logic.
Originally posted by carver9
What Hulk issue is this so that I can read the entire story line and see if it's filled with nothing but low showings for Hulk. Nothing dictating his power level. Also, Hulk naturally holds back unlike Doomsday due to Banner controlling his rage/punching power.
Web of Spidey 69. Knock yourself out... "Hulk Smash!"... Yeah, he was clearly holding back... But wait, even if that's the case doesn't that not matter? Because several people made a sound argument about how and why Doomsday was likely holding back and I even referenced multiple occasions where that was objectively proven to be the case to some degree and you did not care...
And what do low showings matter? You arbitrarily decided Doomsday is "trash" based on what is either cis or moments of low showings despite his highs.. O_o
Originally posted by jinzin
This. This all day.You can't argue any of them are human with this logic.
Never said any of them were human. What I did say is an all out Doomsday pounded on them and failed to kill them. He can bring up Bi Beast all he wants but we got a clear indication on how powerful each of these characters were in DOS, CLEAR. The consistency of the writing for DOS was always the same for everyone, mid to high meta. Bi Beast withstanding a punch from a Hulk that pages after tilted a city plays part in how durable they were and comics before shaking planets and the east cost.
Originally posted by jinzin
Web of Spidey 69. Knock yourself out... "Hulk Smash!"... Yeah, he was clearly holding back... But wait, even if that's the case doesn't that not matter? Because several people made a sound argument about how and why Doomsday was likely holding back and I even referenced multiple occasions where that was objectively proven to be the case to some degree and you did not care...
Doomsday wasn't holding back. Pages before that he was killing humans and animals and pages after that he was killing people, twisting their necks and cutting their throats. He was an animal, Hulk is actually being controlled by Banner.