DOS Doomsday runs the hulk gauntlet

Originally posted by carver9
He wasn't standard or amped. DOS Superman is the weakest version of Superman to date operating at levels below Herald levels and that includes all of the other characters as well. Booster Gold shieldless and Blue Beetle withstood more attacks from Doomsday than the entire Justice League, minus Superman.

And a random pickup truck tanked more damage than Wendigo, BiBeast, Fin Fang Foom etc combined, even when they were all amped 1000x and there were multiple AMPED Hulks next to it.

Using your logic, this means Wendigo etc are all boo boo tier, even when amped. We can replace the truck with Monica Rappacini, a normal human, lol.

Or we can say PIS, and say no, what actually happened was the writer wanted to convey how powerful Hulk/Doomsday was. But that would involve actually thinking about what's happening.

Jesus Carver, way to make it absolutely clear that you've read **** all Superman comics.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And a random pickup truck tanked more damage than Wendigo, BiBeast, Fin Fang Foom etc combined, even when they were all amped 1000x and there were multiple AMPED Hulks next to it.

Using your logic, this means Wendigo etc are all boo boo tier, even when amped. We can replace the truck with Monica Rappacini, a normal human, lol.

Or we can say PIS, and say no, what actually happened was the writer wanted to convey how powerful Hulk/Doomsday was. But that would involve actually thinking about what's happening.

Lmao... this is a desperation post. This man is bringing up pickup trucks and collateral damage when I'm posting Supes getting knocked out by bricks, knocked out by gas stations, knocked out by more bricks, Doomsday getting trapped in mud, cant punch human level heros to death, moving below the speed of sound. Keep bringing up trucks to help your argument. Move on, Saint.

Not collateral damage.

Monica Rappacini. Stood a few feet away from an amped WBH and his buddies. Not even a tan.

I note you didn't even address the post, though. So tell me, what durability feats did Wendigo have in HOTM?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Jesus Carver, way to make it absolutely clear that you've read **** all Superman comics.

😂

Originally posted by carver9
Lmao... this is a desperation post. This man is bringing up pickup trucks and collateral damage when I'm posting Supes getting knocked out by bricks, knocked out by gas stations, knocked out by more bricks, Doomsday getting trapped in mud, cant punch human level heros to death, moving below the speed of sound. Keep bringing up trucks to help your argument. Move on, Saint.

@Dark...

Survived a punch from Hulk who in the same issue he/Hulk tilted a good chunk of a city. The point went clean over your head. Hulk I have high end trans tier to skyfather showing in the entire run of Heart of Monsters. So you'll probably nitpick some showings but most of HOM is full of high showings. DOS doesn't have a single high or mid level showing in the entire issue. Nothing impressive happened. Nothing showing great power. It's filled with nothing but meta tier characters. Greenscar step shook the entire eastern seaboard, tilted a city, withstood s 100 trillion ton punch, shook the entire sea, treated the Avengers like fodder, treated Red She Hulk like fodder who issues before punched through a dimension, tanked attacks while standing in one spot from upper tier beings. Tanked an attack that ripped armor apart that was stated as being able to withstand any attack on the planet. Walked through his son all out attack who was beforehand moving a planet.

DOS, nothing. Absolutely nothing but low showings. We have a depiction on how powerful Hulk is (can shed a planet without touching it, can melt Herald level beings without touching them, can stand in one spot and tank Herald level attacks without flinching), it's non existent for ALL characters in DOS. They were hot trash.

Originally posted by Diesldude
Not even trying to be subtle in your trolling these days.

What in my post did I say that was inaccurate?

Originally posted by carver9
@Dark...

Survived a punch from Hulk who in the same issue he/Hulk tilted a good chunk of a city. The point went clean over your head. Hulk I have high end trans tier to skyfather showing in the entire run of Heart of Monsters. So you'll probably nitpick some showings but most of HOM is full of high showings. DOS doesn't have a single high or mid level showing in the entire issue. Nothing impressive happened. Nothing showing great power. It's filled with nothing but meta tier characters. Greenscar step shook the entire eastern seaboard, tilted a city, withstood s 100 trillion ton punch, shook the entire sea, treated the Avengers like fodder, treated Red She Hulk like fodder who issues before punched through a dimension, tanked attacks while standing in one spot from upper tier beings. Tanked an attack that ripped armor apart that was stated as being able to withstand any attack on the planet. Walked through his son all out attack who was beforehand moving a planet.

DOS, nothing. Absolutely nothing but low showings. We have a depiction on how powerful Hulk is (can shed a planet without touching it, can melt Herald level beings without touching them, can stand in one spot and tank Herald level attacks without flinching), it's non existent for ALL characters in DOS. They were hot trash.

So no energy durability showings? Got ya.

Wendigo, BiBeast, all of them were booboo. They all died as a side effect of a punch, when vastly amped WBH and his Hulk family didn't even singe Monica Rappacini and her sunglasses on Earth.

That's less than Street tier. Glad we agree. Zero feats from these guys IN THE STORY itself.

Monica and Strange straight up tanked more power than all of them combined, without shields etc, when the Hulks were all amped. This is the truth and cannot be denied or ignored.

At least you're trying. Nothing you said holds weight and I will NOT ignore an entire comic of showings in DOS dictating the characters power levels. We know Hulk, WBH and Bi Beast power level and an entire comic wasn't dedicated to Bi Beast and Wendigo anyways. We also know Superman and Doomsday power levels as well. You're delusional. You are literally the same guy who went pages degrading Cosmic Thor due to him flinching from a Boulder. Your posting habits are troubling (disturbing to say the lease). You are bias AF. I proved my point. Bye

Carver, maybe try not being such a hypocrite for five ****ing seconds.

😂

Originally posted by carver9
At least you're trying. Nothing you said holds weight and I will NOT ignore an entire comic of showings in DOS dictating the characters power levels. We know Hulk, WBH and Bi Beast power level and an entire comic wasn't dedicated to Bi Beast and Wendigo anyways. We also know Superman and Doomsday power levels as well. You're delusional. You are literally the same guy who went pages degrading Cosmic Thor due to him flinching from a Boulder. Your posting habits are troubling (disturbing to say the lease). You are bias AF. I proved my point. Bye

Ok, so they had crap feats in the HotM storyline, gotcha.

I DO know how tough a human is, though. How tough a pickup truck is. And they weren't even scratched, hell, they weren't even budged an inch (not counting Monica running, obv).

WBH was trash tier lmao, using YOUR logic. Superman got KOd by a gas station? That same gas station explosion would obliterate a pickup truck, so I reckon it was way way more powerful than the entire AMPED Hulk family on Earth 😂

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
😂

Ok, so they had crap feats in the HotM storyline, gotcha.

I DO know how tough a human is, though. How tough a pickup truck is. And they weren't even scratched, hell, they weren't even budged an inch (not counting Monica running, obv).

WBH was trash tier lmao, using YOUR logic. Superman got KOd by a gas station? That same gas station explosion would obliterate a pickup truck, so I reckon it was way way more powerful than the entire AMPED Hulk family on Earth 😂

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My post should have said 'a Superman who is as fresh as a daisy 50 pages of fighting earlier, without any powerups

Because that is what Carver is asserting.

Originally posted by carver9
First I want to say that it's good seeing you. Second, theres no evidence he is anywhere close to Flash speed. Those are hyperbolic statements. No one is saying he is slow but the speed that was quoted for him is right there on panel. Also, Booster Gold outreacted him and Maxima did as well and neither are anywhere close to Flash.

My entire point/post is primarily about DOS story and you're naming showings outside of this. 🤷

Thank you man.

Second, I wasn't saying he's a fast as Flash, but Booster did make that statement which ought to tell you something about how disparaged he was by Doomsday's speed *advantage* over himself. There's no way to properly read through that event and somehow draw the conclusion that Doomsday wasn't significantly faster than most of those Leaguers by some considerable margin, Booster included. It makes the lowball you're attempting to impose on Doomsday look suspect af.

Booster Gold didn't outreact him.. At all... I've already cited several references to that fact. You continuing to insist to the contrary doesn't all of the sudden make it true.
Maxima hit Superman full force in the face and got smashed with Bloodwynd being used a bludgeon specifically because she was the one being outmatched in speed so you are blatantly mistaken there.

I literally cited 2 examples at the end of my post that were non Dos specific, they have nothing at all to do with the factual information I was presenting, and, they would still apply to Dos...

"Doomsday: Year One" is a story that retroactively applies to the Dos story. If there is a question about what level Dos Doomsday was operating at, "Doomsday; Year One" and some of the flashbacks from Hunter/Prey fill that in, especially considering Doomsday's geometrically amplifying power pattern. It also gives insite on just how strong/powerful Superman necessarily must have been operating at *at a minimum* to put Doomsday away... You can feel however you want about that, doesn't matter, this information would still be objectively relevant.

Originally posted by carver9
Also, Superman was able to temporarily contain Doomsday via mud. Superman was able to fly away, have conversations with the league, have full blown conversations with a medic crew, help people, etc... before Doomsday was able to get himself out of dirt...

https://ibb.co/0DD4zh7
https://ibb.co/1ZDHm5c
https://ibb.co/6Nkkzdf

Imagine if he would've dug him deeper.

So what?
Imagine trying to argue Juggernaut can't compete with Hulk because he got stuck in cement for a while once.... What does that have to do with anything?

Imagine trying to argue Juggs can't compete with Hulk because he got stuck in some cement for a while one time...

We didn't see Doomsday down there, we didn't see him struggle, we don't know if he got out of the mud slowly and immediately sprang out of the water, or if he got out of the mud instantly and was milling about the bottom of the lake like he did when he got out from his underground prison initially... A feat we actually saw btw, of him effortlessly propelling up through the earth from "deep underground" in a relative moment despite being restrained, starved and potentially solar deprived. So again, what is your point?

Originally posted by carver9
Superman either sucks or the writer didn't display his power anywhere close to its peak. Anything used from DOS pitting them against Herald level characters should be an auto loss for them imo.

Action Comics 586

*This* is also John Byrne's Superman 5 or 6 years prior to Dos, so unless you have some sort of on panel evidence that Supes was depowered leading up to that event... He's a problem.

Originally posted by carver9
Lmao... this is a desperation post. This man is bringing up pickup trucks and collateral damage when I'm posting Supes getting knocked out by bricks, knocked out by gas stations, knocked out by more bricks, Doomsday getting trapped in mud, cant punch human level heros to death, moving below the speed of sound. Keep bringing up trucks to help your argument. Move on, Saint.

You're acting like Doomsday not killing people when he was likely toying with them somehow holds more water than the fact that he effortlessly collapsed a bridge with grip strength that demonstates he could've just has easily squeezed them to mush.

Either them surviving is pis or it's cis... It doesn't matter which as neither reason accounts much for what Doomsday can do when he applies himself... like wasting Superman.
Given Superman's observations about the Doomsday he encountered at the beginning of rebirth we and pretty confidentally guestimate it wasn't a fluke or a result of a weak Superman...

Doomsday ought have killed them? You mean like when he literally dropped Guy Gardner and walked away from a downed Superman and Maxima? Maybe... Did he fail to kill them because he's incapible... unlikely...
What's Hulk's excuse? Is Kraven herald level now?

Byrne era Superman actually had some really good feats

He survived the implosion of a Sun-Eater who just fed on a sun, then he also survived the moon explosion in the same arc

He was also still conscious after receiving a savage beat of Pre-Crisis Earth-1 Kryptonians, whom later stated to be capable of destroying entire universeS etcetc

Originally posted by carver9
@Dark...

Survived a punch from Hulk who in the same issue he/Hulk tilted a good chunk of a city. The point went clean over your head. Hulk I have high end trans tier to skyfather showing in the entire run of Heart of Monsters. So you'll probably nitpick some showings but most of HOM is full of high showings. DOS doesn't have a single high or mid level showing in the entire issue. Nothing impressive happened. Nothing showing great power. It's filled with nothing but meta tier characters. Greenscar step shook the entire eastern seaboard, tilted a city, withstood s 100 trillion ton punch, shook the entire sea, treated the Avengers like fodder, treated Red She Hulk like fodder who issues before punched through a dimension, tanked attacks while standing in one spot from upper tier beings. Tanked an attack that ripped armor apart that was stated as being able to withstand any attack on the planet. Walked through his son all out attack who was beforehand moving a planet.

DOS, nothing. Absolutely nothing but low showings. We have a depiction on how powerful Hulk is (can shed a planet without touching it, can melt Herald level beings without touching them, can stand in one spot and tank Herald level attacks without flinching), it's non existent for ALL characters in DOS. They were hot trash.

"Doomsday: Year One" exists...
We know that an attack from the entirety of a Guardian's powers capable of punching Doomsday through a hole in space was only enough to knock him out.
We know Doomsday could easily unhand himself from pre-Crisis Darkseid and throw him aside like nothing. He know it took some form of pure energy capable of shedding a fith of a planet to put Doomsday down He know he's a bane tot he entire Lantern corps. We know he could beat the tar out of a character capable of knocking around Darkseid even as that same character was power amping like crazy... He's not featless because you say so and want to insist Dos exists in a microscope unto itself.

Idk that Hulk and She-Hulk's punch are soley responsible for the destruction of the celestial bodies in that comic... I think what we are seeing in that book is the result of a bunch of wishes imploding on themselves at the same time by characters who were magically amped... I'm also fairly positive those "planets" are actually the Moons of Munnopor. *shrug*

Originally posted by jinzin

Idk that Hulk and She-Hulk's punch are soley responsible for the destruction of the celestial bodies in that comic... I think what we are seeing in that book is the result of a bunch of wishes imploding on themselves at the same time by characters who were magically amped... I'm also fairly positive those "planets" are actually the Moons of Munnopor. *shrug*

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And now that I have access to my PC, I will lay my argument out.

From the very start, we already knew Betty - in her unamped, normal state, was a match for Hulk durability-wise:

Bear this in mind as we read on.

It was established that the Wishing Well would take a circuitous route to give you [b]exactly what you actually want, but there would be consequences:

Now, Hulk wanted there to be no innocents around - the Well could have given him a barren world, but instead, it gave him a world full of guilty criminals to fight:

No matter. The Hulk loved it either way. As he himself says:

Look at that smile. He is loving it.

Confirmed by the Hulk himself, that it was time to fight and die (still with that shit-eating grin on his face):

And confirmed again by Strange. No one was going to survive - and that was the end that the Hulk wanted:

As he was surrounded by guilty criminals, he wanted them all to die, be resurrected, and die again. Over and over and over again. As a side-effect, Hulk too would die and be resurrected - because ArmCheddon wished that the Hulk would also suffer the same fate:

In short, the World breaking feat wasn't due to pure strength, but was due to Hulk wishing that everyone with him would die as he fought them, because they were all monsters, trapped together. The Wishing Well granted this wish, by having the entire realm be destroyed every time he fought.

Sure, there is *some* strength involved. Hulk still cut loose. My argument is that it could have been Alfred, completely cutting loose with his old-man strength, fighting a planet full of Martha Wayne corpses, and the end result would have been the same - planetary destruction.

Now, what happens when they get to Earth? Safe old Earth, filled with kittens and women and children and that sort of thing?

Remember, that Betty, without the Wishing Well amp, was already on the level of Hulk. Now she got amped by the Wishing Well. THEN she got hit by FFF's missiles (note her and WBH's size):
https://i.postimg.cc/HLsc6J1R/RCO017-1469401173.jpg

She grows to massive proportions, and casually stomps FFF (along with WBH):
https://i.postimg.cc/vZGcm1TT/RCO018-1469401173.jpg

A-bomb and She-Hulk were also amped - remember, they augmented the energy:
https://i.postimg.cc/W4WDC223/RCO015-1469401173.jpg

So we now have four gigantic Hulk beings duking it out on Earth, not holding back, completely insane with power:
https://i.postimg.cc/vZy66qqQ/RCO020-1469401173.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/1tVzdwCC/RCO019-1469401173.jpg

Yet, not even a pickup truck nearby was harmed (I've circled how close Strange was to the fight, and the truck itself):

Of course, this could well just be the suspension of belief that EndlessMike was talking about. But the comic was clear in that one didn't need to articulate the wish out loud, verbally, for it to happen - Wendigo and Cho made wishes without saying them, for example. In other words, we don't need Hulk actually saying the words for it to have been a wish.

In short, the Hulk only had the power to destroy a world in the Dark Dimension, because the Well granted him the power to do so when there were no innocents around. Once he (and 3 others!) were on Earth, a planet filled with innocents, he (and the other 3) didn't destroy Earth.

All this ignores the whole 'gravity is wonky in the DD' argument. [/B]