Originally posted by h1a8
How do you determine effectiveness? Is it their moves or is it the skill of their opponent?Who did Namor beat to show his skill?
Effectiveness of fighting and the ability to win fights fairly. Bottom line: it's not via how fancy their moves are.
So tell me again which skilled fighter WW has defeated to make you think she’s a more skilled fighter than Namor?
Originally posted by FrothByte
Effectiveness of fighting and the ability to win fights fairly. Bottom line: it's not via how fancy their moves are.So tell me again which skilled fighter WW has defeated to make you think she’s a more skilled fighter than Namor?
You didn't answer the question. How do you determine effectiveness?
What does effectiveness of fighting means?
Don't argue what skill is not, argue what skill is.
Let's say neither defeated any opponent of skill (you still haven't quite defined it) in a fair fight. But since WW has skillful moves (Namor doesn't) and it was shown her training in combat for thousands of years, then it makes more sense she's more skilled.
Originally posted by h1a8
You didn't answer the question. How do you determine effectiveness?
What does effectiveness of fighting means?Don't argue what skill is not, argue what skill is.
Let's say neither defeated any opponent of skill (you still haven't quite defined it) in a fair fight. But since WW has skillful moves (Namor doesn't) and it was shown her training in combat for thousands of years, then it makes more sense she's more skilled.
Jeeze dude. You don't know what effectiveness means?
In a fight, being effective means you win the fight, especially if it's a fair, clean fight. Especially if it's against someone of similar physical stats to you or someone superior.
WW never won a clean, fair fight against anyone that was her physical equal or superior. Luddendorf was the closest but then he was unarmed while she was armed.
So again, why are you saying that she's a more skilled fighter than Namor?
Note that I never claimed Namor was more skilled than her, I'm simply questioning how you arrived at the conclusion that she was more skilled.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Jeeze dude. You don't know what effectiveness means?In a fight, being effective means you win the fight, especially if it's a fair, clean fight. Especially if it's against someone of similar physical stats to you or someone superior.
WW never won a clean, fair fight against anyone that was her physical equal or superior. Luddendorf was the closest but then he was unarmed while she was armed.
So again, why are you saying that she's a more skilled fighter than Namor?
Note that I never claimed Namor was more skilled than her, I'm simply questioning how you arrived at the conclusion that she was more skilled.
So effectiveness is winning a fair fight?
OK so you ignored this
Originally posted by h1a8
Let's say neither defeated an opponent of equal or better stats in a fair fight. But since WW has skillful moves (Namor doesn't) and it was shown her training in combat for thousands of years, then it makes more sense she's more skilled.
In summary
Assuming neither has beaten anyone of equal or better stats in a fair fight.
Evidence towards WW being more skilled
1. Being trained in combat by a Warrior race for thousands of years
2. Showing skillful fighting moves (moves that take significant skill to pull off)
Originally posted by h1a8
So effectiveness is winning a fair fight?
OK so you ignored thisIn summary
Assuming neither has beaten anyone of equal or better stats in a fair fight.Evidence towards WW being more skilled
1. Being trained in combat by a Warrior race for thousands of years
2. Showing skillful fighting moves (moves that take significant skill to pull off)
Which is exactly why I never claimed Namor more skilled than WW, because we have no concrete metric. But you claimed it therefore I'm asking you for proof. Going off fancy moves is nonsense, especially when WW generally only uses it against opponents she massively outclasses physically. I mean, she didn't exactly get to use her fancy moves much against Steppenwolf or Superman right?
Originally posted by FrothByte
Which is exactly why I never claimed Namor more skilled than WW, because we have no concrete metric. But you claimed it therefore I'm asking you for proof. Going off fancy moves is nonsense, especially when WW generally only uses it against opponents she massively outclasses physically. I mean, she didn't exactly get to use her fancy moves much against Steppenwolf or Superman right?
Read my post carefully.
I gave 2 points that show WW being more skilled than Namor.
Originally posted by h1a8
Just comparing the two in fight scenes shows she is significantly more skilled. Like comparing Bruce Lee and Rocky Balboa.
But how does your first point (being trained for thousands of years) link to this point, which only really relies on your second point? You're adding and moving things.
Your initial post only based it on their fighting scenes. Now you are saying the background information which isn't present in the fight scenes is what you're using.
Originally posted by h1a8
Read my post carefully.
I gave 2 points that show WW being more skilled than Namor.
I'll address your point about having "thousands of years of training" once we finish discussing your point about fancy moves... since that was your original point and you only added training later on.
So again, do you think fancy moves dictates fighting skill? Would you say someone like Van Damme is more skilled than Mike Tyson in their respective primes just because he could do fancy moves? Do you consider Jet Lee a better fighter than Khabib Nurmagomedov?
Because if fancy moves is all you think takes to indicate great fighting skill, then Shuri must be highly skilled as she displayed more complex moves than WW. Agreed?
Originally posted by FrothByte
I'll address your point about having "thousands of years of training" once we finish discussing your point about fancy moves... since that was your original point and you only added training later on.So again, do you think fancy moves dictates fighting skill? Would you say someone like Van Damme is more skilled than Mike Tyson in their respective primes just because he could do fancy moves? Do you consider Jet Lee a better fighter than Khabib Nurmagomedov?
Because if fancy moves is all you think takes to indicate great fighting skill, then Shuri must be highly skilled as she displayed more complex moves than WW. Agreed?
You are actually creating a strawman. I would say WW did actual skillful effective moves, not fancy moves. You are creating this fancy move argument. Mike Tyson is skilled because he had displayed skillful moves and has beaten opponents that were also skilled.
On kmc, skillful (not fancy) moves >>> no evidence of any kind.
That means a character is more skilled than another if that character displayed skillful moves and the other character has 0 evidence of skill. That's common phucking sense.
Originally posted by h1a8
You are actually creating a strawman. I would say WW did actual skillful effective moves, not fancy moves. You are creating this fancy move argument. Mike Tyson is skilled because he had displayed skillful moves and has beaten opponents that were also skilled.On kmc, skillful (not fancy) moves >>> no evidence of any kind.
That means a character is more skilled than another if that character displayed skillful moves and the other character has 0 evidence of skill. That's common phucking sense.
Yet how do you define what constitutes "skillful moves"? Why do you claim WW's moves were any more skillful than Namor's?
Would you claim that Shuri is a more skilled fighter than WW based on their respective moves?
Originally posted by FrothByte
Yet how do you define what constitutes "skillful moves"? Why do you claim WW's moves were any more skillful than Namor's?Would you claim that Shuri is a more skilled fighter than WW based on their respective moves?
The level of skill is determined by how hard it (the difficulty) is for a normal average person to pull off in combat and how effective the move is.
Originally posted by h1a8
The level of skill is determined by how hard it (the difficulty) is for a normal average person to pull off in combat and how effective the move is.
In other words, fancy moves. Because that's what fancy moves are right? Complex and difficult moves.
So do you agree that Shuri is more skilled than Wonder Woman since she was pulling off more difficult moves?
Originally posted by FrothByte
In other words, fancy moves. Because that's what fancy moves are right? Complex and difficult moves.So do you agree that Shuri is more skilled than Wonder Woman since she was pulling off more difficult moves?
Fancy moves aren't necessarily effective. And Fancy is more of an opinion. Complex and difficult is not necessarily fancy.