Wonder Woman vs. MCU Namor

Originally posted by h1a8
Fancy moves aren't necessarily effective. And Fancy is more of an opinion. Complex and difficult is not necessarily fancy.

So answer the question: Based on their moves alone, who do you consider more skilled, Shuri or Wonder Woman?

So we're moving on from fancy, to effective. Very nice shifting, h1.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So we're moving on from fancy, to effective. Very nice shifting, h1.

Using "fancy" as an objective argument is flawed.

Originally posted by FrothByte
So answer the question: Based on their moves alone, who do you consider more skilled, Shuri or Wonder Woman?

Based off effective skillful moves done in combat then WW appears significantly more skilled. Shuri is possibly more agile with flips and things. But she hasn't shown any attacks that were more skillful, while effective, than WW has. This is from my memory as I only seen the movie once.

Originally posted by h1a8
Based off effective skillful moves done in combat then WW appears significantly more skilled. Shuri is possibly more agile with flips and things. But she hasn't shown any attacks that were more skillful, while effective, than WW has. This is from my memory as I only seen the movie once.

Again, how are you judging WW's moves as "more skillful"? What metric are you using? Give me a few concrete examples of what makes you consider WW more skilled than Shuri.

Remember that Shuri pulled off a lot of her moves fighting against Talocans, whereas WW pulled off majority of her moves against WW1 human soldiers.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Again, how are you judging WW's moves as "more skillful"? What metric are you using? Give me a few concrete examples of what makes you consider WW more skilled than Shuri.

Remember that Shuri pulled off a lot of her moves fighting against Talocans, whereas WW pulled off majority of her moves against WW1 human soldiers.

As far as skillful, I trained in fighting years ago. So I'm familiar with MA and some MMA. We can compare move by move if you want. Just give a move (attack or defense) by Shuri that is as skillful or more than anything WW has done.

Originally posted by h1a8

As far as skillful, I trained in fighting years ago. So I'm familiar with MA and some MMA. We can compare move by move if you want. Just give a move (attack or defense) by Shuri that is as skillful or more than anything WW has done.

No you haven't. Because if you did you wouldn't think fancy moves were indicative of combat skill.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
And by one level you mean not capable of hurting him, and being a statue to him if he uses his top speed ?

Think thats a few levels 😛

she made him wince with a headbutt

and she took his initial headbutt with little effect.

thats something id say lol

Originally posted by h1a8
He mentioned "fancy moves" as a strawman.
Fancy is a matter of opinion.
For example, a spinning back kick could be fancy to someone but basic and effective to another.

Using "fancy" as an objective argument is flawed.

Originally posted by h1a8
Yup, fancy kicks and fancy maneuvers determines fighting skill. Any other suggestions?

Originally posted by relentless1
she made him wince with a headbutt

and she took his initial headbutt with little effect.

thats something id say lol

It's something for sure. But Think it's more than 1 level lol

Originally posted by h1a8
Talocans was only shown to be stronger and more durable than humans and have siren abilities. They were not shown have superspeed or exceptional h2h fighting abilities. The general (a human) matched well with Attuma and was beating several of them simultaneously.
Shuri is physically superior to the general. You think WW won't own their asses?

As far as skillful, I trained in fighting years ago. So I'm familiar with MA and some MMA. We can compare move by move if you want. Just give a move (attack or defense) by Shuri that is as skillful or more than anything WW has done.

Talk is cheap, nobody here will ever believe you're actually a trained martial artist. After all, earlier in this thread you declared that fancy kicks does indeed prove fighting skill.

Now answer the question: What metric are you using to declare that WW's moves are more skillful than Shuri's?

Also, yes Shuri might be stronger than the Talocans but WW is massively stronger than the humans she regularly beats up on.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Talk is cheap, nobody here will ever believe you're actually a trained martial artist. After all, earlier in this thread you declared that fancy kicks does indeed prove fighting skill.

Now answer the question: What metric are you using to declare that WW's moves are more skillful than Shuri's?

Also, yes Shuri might be stronger than the Talocans but WW is massively stronger than the humans she regularly beats up on.

The metric is my judgment.
But know that you are moving the goal post.
Experience and training is a factor too.

Here are all factors
1. Who you fought and your performance against them
2. Judgement on skilled attacks and defense moves.
3. Combat relexes.
4. Experience
5. Training

Originally posted by h1a8
The metric is my judgment.

In other words, you don't actually have a valid metric. You're saying WW is more skilled based on nothing more than because you wish it to be so.

Originally posted by FrothByte
In other words, you don't actually have a valid metric. You're saying WW is more skilled based on nothing more than because you wish it to be so.

Is there an actual mathematical metric that measures how skilled attacks and defense moves are?

Remember this isn't the only factor. Ignoring that is trolling.

Originally posted by h1a8
Is there an actual mathematical metric that measures how skilled attacks and defense moves are?

Remember this isn't the only factor. Ignoring that is trolling.

Well there has to be a metric you're using to determine why you think WW is so much more skilled than Namor or Shuri right?

Originally you said it was based on how fancy their moves were. Do you no longer support this notion?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Well there has to be a metric you're using to determine why you think WW is so much more skilled than Namor or Shuri right?

Originally you said it was based on how fancy their moves were. Do you no longer support this notion?

It's not a mathematical one. Thus it's a judgement one.
If I show you two martial art films that display characters performing moves then it wouldn't be hard to determine who's more skilled (especially when there is a big difference). And especially if you have any experience with fighting.

WW is significantly more skilled than Namor because Namor has almost 0 skill. WW is slightly more skilled than Shuri.

Originally posted by h1a8
It's not a mathematical one. Thus it's a judgement one.
If I show you two martial art films that display characters performing moves then it wouldn't be hard to determine who's more skilled (especially when there is a big difference). And especially if you have any experience with fighting.

WW is significantly more skilled than Namor because Namor has almost 0 skill. WW is slightly more skilled than Shuri.

It doesn't need to be a mathematical one, just something that's objective and consistent.

Right now, all you're really saying is it's based on nothing more than your opinion... which is something that nobody respects here.

Originally posted by FrothByte
It doesn't need to be a mathematical one, just something that's objective and consistent.

Right now, all you're really saying is it's based on nothing more than your opinion... which is something that nobody respects here.

At this point you are arguing against common sense.

It's one thing to try to win a debate and another just trying to find truth.
Any reasonable person would say that WW is more skilled than Namor. That's not a stretch. For you to not think so shows bias.
Namor was not shown to have any formal training in fighting (like WW and Aquaman) and didn't do any attacks or defense moves that gives us the suspension of disbelief that he has fighting skill better than say an expert fighter.

Originally posted by h1a8
Like I said, that's just one factor. You have to factor in other evidence.
You keep ignoring that.

At this point you are arguing against common sense.

It's one thing to try to win a debate and another just trying to find truth.
Any reasonable person would say that WW is more skilled than Namor. That's not a stretch. For you to not think so shows bias.
Namor was not shown to have any formal training in fighting (like WW and Aquaman) and didn't do any attacks or defense moves that gives us the suspension of disbelief that he has fighting skill better than say an expert fighter.

Of course you have to factor in other evidence, except that wasn't your original stance now was it?

Do you now agree that simply having fancy moves is not enough proof on its own to determine skill?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Of course you have to factor in other evidence, except that wasn't your original stance now was it?

Do you now agree that simply having fancy moves is not enough proof on its own to determine skill?

That was my latest stance. Who cares what my original stance was?
It's all about a person's CURRENT STANCE.

If attacking and defense moves is the only factor then we judge based off that. In most cases everyone will agree, unless it's close enough. In that case, skill is a wash.