Wonder Woman vs. MCU Namor

Originally posted by h1a8
That was my latest stance. Who cares what my original stance was?
It's all about a person's CURRENT STANCE.

If attacking and defense moves is the only factor then we judge based off that. In most cases everyone will agree, unless it's close enough. In that case, skill is a wash.

We care, because it shows that you chop and change stances when it suits you.

This, it's a waste of time trying to engage you in meaningful debate, because all you do is change your argument to assuage your ego and avoid saying 'I'm wrong'.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
We care, because it shows that you chop and change stances when it suits you.

This, it's a waste of time trying to engage you in meaningful debate, because all you do is change your argument to assuage your ego and avoid saying 'I'm wrong'.

We all change stances to continue the debate, especially you lol

But here's the kicker : In many cases I don't actually change my stance. I just pursue a more effective one.

Originally posted by h1a8
We all change stances to continue the debate, especially you lol

But here's the kicker : In many cases I don't actually change my stance. I just pursue a more effective one.

So you admit that your original stance was ineffective which is why you pursued a different one?

Originally posted by FrothByte
So you admit that your original stance was ineffective which is why you pursued a different one?

Originally posted by h1a8
No
I still have the same stance.
We judge by the moves if there is no other evidence.

So based on moves alone, why do you insist that WW's moves were more skilled than Shuri?

Originally posted by FrothByte
So based on moves alone, why do you insist that WW's moves were more skilled than Shuri?

Shuri did some backflips. But her attacks (punches and kicks) didn't seem very skilled (she Telegraph on some attacks). Normal claw swings, a generic jump kick with both legs, and an attempted spin elbow (telegraphed). She has good agility and flexibility though.

WW showed great kicking skills, parrying and grappling skills, very effective moves if she were in a real fight.

Flashy moves aren't necessarily effective in a real fight.
WW was more brutal and to the point and not as flashy as you are thinking.
Shuri was more Flashy with the flipping but nothing overly effective if imagined in a real fight..

All in all I would say Shuri is definitely a skilled fighter and WW is not massively more skilled than her.

Originally posted by h1a8
We all change stances to continue the debate, especially you lol

But here's the kicker : In many cases I don't actually change my stance. I just pursue a more effective one.

YOU'RE the one who based skill on flashy appearances, not us

Originally posted by h1a8
That was my latest stance. Who cares what my original stance was?
It's all about a person's CURRENT STANCE.

Originally posted by h1a8
We all change stances to continue the debate, especially you lol

But here's the kicker : In many cases I don't actually change my stance. I just pursue a more effective one.

But also... I actually didn't change my stance at all.

It's a flashy kicker, alright.

Not saying it's effective or particularly skilled, mind.

Oh well I'm trained in internet douchery and I have years of experience. Allow me to analyze these stances and give you an objective assessment of the skill involved:

Originally posted by h1a8
That was my latest stance. Who cares what my original stance was?

Originally posted by h1a8
I still have the same stance.

Hmm, no sir, not very skilled at all

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well I'm talking about THIS instance.

YOU'RE the one who based skill on flashy appearances, not us

You are creating strawman by inserting incorrect terms (flashy, fancy, etc). My argument is judging the moves (attack and defense). whether you (not me) think they are flashy or not is irrelevant.

Here's proof. Van Damme is a very flashy actor. Yet he has the worst skill Ive ever seen for the star of a MA movie. Flashy =/= skilled

Originally posted by h1a8
When we talk about moves I'm referring to attacks or defense moves (blocks, parries, etc)

Shuri did some backflips. But her attacks (punches and kicks) didn't seem very skilled (she Telegraph on some attacks). Normal claw swings, a generic jump kick with both legs, and an attempted spin elbow (telegraphed). She has good agility and flexibility though.

WW showed great kicking skills, parrying and grappling skills, very effective moves if she were in a real fight.

Flashy moves aren't necessarily effective in a real fight.
WW was more brutal and to the point and not as flashy as you are thinking.
Shuri was more Flashy with the flipping but nothing overly effective if imagined in a real fight..

All in all I would say Shuri is definitely a skilled fighter and WW is not massively more skilled than her.

Then using your newfound logic, you must agree that Namor is more skilled than both WW and Shuri since he doesn't use flashy moves but is instead more brutal and to the point.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Wonder Woman doesn't exactly have clean wins over anyone as powerful as Namor. Not in a straight-up, fair match anyway.

She won against Luddendorf but he's not at Namor's level, and she did struggle with him.

She won against Ares via plot device.
She had help against Doomsday and Steppenwolf.
She was completely helpless against Superman.
She defeated Cheetah but Cheetah doesn't have enough feats to determine whether she's as high of a threat as Namor.

I'd say this match is a tie.

We haven't seen Namor do anything even close to as impressive.

edit- This entire debate about skill is ridiculous and you're all autistic. There is no way to determine a completely arbitrary metric like "skill" here based just off choreography and hearsay. Namor has fought literally only a single superpowered character onscreen, a character who has first and foremost been a scientist and has never had any pedigree as a skilled martial artist, in a situation with unusual circumstances (depowered from the heat). We have no way of establishing an actual baseline for Namor's skill so how can we possibly make a value judgement between him and Wonder Woman? Stop being numbskulls. Diana would shit on Namor because based on what we've seen thus far she has superior strength, speed and durability feats. Who's the more skilled combatant is irrelevant just like Diana's superior skill is irrelevant against Superman.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Wonder Woman was not only fast enough and skilled enough to fight Doomsday 1 on 1 but she was even able to grievously wound him multiple times while taking minor damage in return. She only failed to kill him due to his regenerative powers.

We haven't seen Namor do anything even close to as impressive.

edit- This entire debate about skill is ridiculous and you're all autistic. There is no way to determine a completely arbitrary metric like "skill" here based just off choreography and hearsay. Namor has fought literally only a single superpowered character onscreen, a character who has first and foremost been a scientist and has never had any pedigree as a skilled martial artist, in a situation with unusual circumstances (depowered from the heat). We have no way of establishing an actual baseline for Namor's skill so how can we possibly make a value judgement between him and Wonder Woman? Stop being numbskulls. Diana would shit on Namor because based on what we've seen thus far she has superior strength, speed and durability feats. Who's the more skilled combatant is irrelevant just like Diana's superior skill is irrelevant against Superman.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Then using your newfound logic, you must agree that Namor is more skilled than both WW and Shuri since he doesn't use flashy moves but is instead more brutal and to the point.

With that said, the rest of my post stands since you didn't address it.

Originally posted by h1a8
You are creating strawman by inserting incorrect terms (flashy, fancy, etc). My argument is judging the moves (attack and defense). whether you (not me) think they are flashy or not is irrelevant.

Here's proof. Van Damme is a very flashy actor. Yet he has the worst skill Ive ever seen for the star of a MA movie. Flashy =/= skilled

Where did I insert those terms in YOUR post?

Originally posted by h1a8
Yup, fancy kicks and fancy maneuvers determines fighting skill. Any other suggestions?

YOU typednthat, did you not?

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Wonder Woman was not only fast enough and skilled enough to fight Doomsday 1 on 1 but she was even able to grievously wound him multiple times while taking minor damage in return. She only failed to kill him due to his regenerative powers.

She was also getting thumped by Steppenwolf. Are we to assume Steppenwolf can manhandle Doomsday? Superman did, but yet he was getting thumped by Doomsday.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

😆

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

It's funny because it's reality.