Silver Surfer Vs Superman 2022 edition.

Originally posted by Smurph
Supes' own senses are irrelevant to the question of what Surfer can sense about Superman.

That said, cosmic awareness isn't just great changes at cosmic distances but also specific information at either great or close distances. I'm not sure why some posters are trying to box it in to a narrow definition.

But sure, Dr Strange, Dr Doom, Professor X and Mantis all rival Surfer in cosmic awareness.

Guess Chuck just scans Superman's DNA and learns his weakness too.

Originally posted by Astner
You're right in that it's only been referred to once or twice (as far as I know) but but there's also an implicit reliance of it when Surfer creates habitable conditions for humans and aliens in space.
That's true, but Superman also has more showings of struggling with characters without super-speed, that's just a consequence of him having appeared in more stories and comics being generally inconsistent.

That said, there are Superman-equivalents in Marvel, Gladiator and Hyperion being the most notable. Gladiator has shattered planets with punches and crossed galaxies in the blink of an eye to deliver a punch, and Hyperion suspended an Incursion for a few seconds (I believe it was a planet-level feat, but if we're going to do the selective cherry-picking we have going on for Superman then we might as interpret it as a universe-level feat, Hickman even alluded to it being the case on Twitter).

I'm not going to scale Surfer to these feats (because that'd be disingenuous), but the point is he can fight characters like these physically and hold his own. He's not being knocked-out in one punch or anything like that. And it's not like Surfer hasn't fought at these kinds of speeds as well, see his fight against Beta Ray Bill in Godhunter for reference.

And that's discounting things like intangibility, that would make Superman straight-up unable to hurt him. There was a fight in New 52 between Superman and a character named Ghost Soldier that showcased how effective intangibility would be against someone like Superman.

But there's more to Surfer's cosmic awareness than just identifying characters's weaknesses. Like Doctor Manhattan he can see the past, present, and future at the same time. That alone means that he's going to know Superman's first attack before it's even conceived of.

You can interpret this fight to go a hundred different ways, but Surfer is winning ninety-nine of them.

Superman has way more appearances, just like you mentioned. That’s why we mention high end feats, or else we just go back to the same old superman get tagged by this slow brick surfer get tagged by that street leveler non sense. Gladiator and hyperion are not superman’s equivalent, they are more equivalent of superboy and powergirl. Just because they are all flying bricks that can shoot beams out o f their eyes and fly with a cape does not mean they are in any shape or form close in power level.
Hyperion has questionable universal feat that could be very well interpreted as planet level
Gladiator has like 3 planetary feats in his 50 years publication history.
Superman has universal and planetary feats just last year alone
Do you see the difference? Character with more appearances get to be on a higher level on battle forums because their high end are higher due to wider range.
This is a full capacity forum fight, not a comic book scenario. Get it through the thick skull of marvel fanboys. I’m sure if you pull out superman and surfer average showings there are not that big of discrepancy. But we are not comparing averages here. We are comparing superman’s top 20 feats to surfer’s top 20 feats.
Yeah intangibility, say that to martian manhunter. Next time mmh get brought up are marvel fanboys gonna hold the same token they hold for ss?
Now you are full on trolling mode comparing Manhattan to surfer, it’s like comparing scarlet witch to lucifer Morningstar, yeah they both use magic, but that’s like comparing little league baseball to mlb superstar
I know you fanboying marvel cause you are bored, I was doing that too, but don’t get too carried away here

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Gay electricity is needed for Wonder Man, Straight for Vision.

It's because it's being turned into Midnighter's battle computer coupled with Nemesis Kid/Darwin's 'I can develop any power', only, amped to the max to become 'I can develop any power to win this battle'.

When Surfer has never done anything like this - the Glads scan is the only example iirc, and even then it's tenuous.

https://imgur.io/a/lzoh0

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

It's because it's being turned into Midnighter's battle computer coupled with Nemesis Kid/Darwin's 'I can develop any power', only, amped to the max to become 'I can develop any power to win this battle'.

When Surfer has never done anything like this - the Glads scan is the only example iirc, and even then it's tenuous.

But what's tenuous about the Glads scan with respect to awareness?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Do show us where Surfer detected weaknesses to pretty much any being using cosmic awareness.

But sure, Dr Strange, Dr Doom, Professor X and Mantis all rival Surfer in cosmic awareness.

Guess Chuck just scans Superman's DNA and learns his weakness too.

You're right Abhi, that's the interpretation of cosmic awareness that's held up through the years.

Oh, wait... https://imgur.io/BNO80CB?r

To reiterate, I say the above without addressing the speed arguments.

I think Superman has the tools to beat Surfer outright, without disingenuously limiting the power of cosmic awareness. It has pretty high potential on a forum, yeah. Not as high as super speed but definitely a potent ability.

Originally posted by Smurph
We mean besides Gladiator, right?

No mention of cosmic awareness. Cosmic races know of Strontian weaknesses, Skrulls did, Rocket Racoon did, Heck even Hulk sensed his weakness.

Guess they all have cosmic awareness too.

You're right Abhi, that's the interpretation of cosmic awareness that's held up through the years.

Oh, wait... https://imgur.io/BNO80CB?r

Yeah, he found Galactus' ship? No really? Did he detect its weakness too?

Originally posted by Smurph
To reiterate, I say the above without addressing the speed arguments.

I think Superman has the tools to beat Surfer outright, without disingenuously limiting the power of cosmic awareness. It has pretty high potential on a forum, yeah. Not as high as super speed but definitely a potent ability.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No mention of cosmic awareness. Cosmic races know of Strontian weaknesses, Skrulls did, Rocket Racoon did, Heck even Hulk sensed his weakness.

Guess they all have cosmic awareness too.

Yeah, he found Galactus' ship? No really? Did he detect its weakness too?

The awareness vested in SS is so vast and comprehensive that HE is awestruck and can't comprehend it. That's the point of the scan. Feel free to keep lowballing, anyways.

Originally posted by abhilegend
For it to have potential, he needs more than vaguely threatening Gladiator and high evolutionary detecting Galactus' ship.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

But you're right, he knew Gladiators weakness because Rocket Raccoon whispered it to him.

Originally posted by Smurph
I mean, if these are the arguments you're going with, you just succeed in looking stupid.

The awareness vested in SS is so vast and comprehensive that HE is awestruck and can't comprehend it. That's the point of the scan. Feel free to keep lowballing, anyways.

Breaking news: Batman awestruck at gaining Superman's strength. If you don't find it impressive, you're trolling.

Originally posted by Smurph
Sure. But then we have Surfer instantly determining billions of different races. Or sensing the movement of electrons inside individual bodies. Or instantly honing in on new energy wavelengths that he's never encountered before.

Wow, his senses are almost on an average Kryptonian level. Pretty great for finding his teeth after Superman breaks his jaw.

But you're right, he knew Gladiators weakness because Rocket Raccoon whispered it to him.

Nah, Rocket used his cosmic awareness just like hulk to sense Gladiator's weakness. Then he whispered to Surfer, get it straight.

Originally posted by Smurph
Well the awareness is just the first half of that argument right? It's the awareness in combination with his other powers that people use on the forum.

But what's tenuous about the Glads scan with respect to awareness?

Because there is no difference between this:

And this:

Surfer doesn't even say he's using cosmic awareness. He just says he knows, without attributing it to anyone or anything.

I mean, did he learn of it after Galactus told him? He read about it on Zenn La? On Taa II? He time travelled and learnt about it in Glads ' past? He used cosmic awareness and meditated on it for an hour? He just found out about it?

How is it applicable to a fight where Supes is barrelling down at him at top speed?

Originally posted by MrMind
Superman has way more appearances, just like you mentioned. That’s why we mention high end feats, or else we just go back to the same old superman get tagged by this slow brick surfer get tagged by that street leveler non sense. Gladiator and hyperion are not superman’s equivalent, they are more equivalent of superboy and powergirl. Just because they are all flying bricks that can shoot beams out o f their eyes and fly with a cape does not mean they are in any shape or form close in power level.
Hyperion has questionable universal feat that could be very well interpreted as planet level
Gladiator has like 3 planetary feats in his 50 years publication history.
Superman has universal and planetary feats just last year alone
Do you see the difference? Character with more appearances get to be on a higher level on battle forums because their high end are higher due to wider range.
This is a full capacity forum fight, not a comic book scenario. Get it through the thick skull of marvel fanboys. I’m sure if you pull out superman and surfer average showings there are not that big of discrepancy. But we are not comparing averages here. We are comparing superman’s top 20 feats to surfer’s top 20 feats.
Yeah intangibility, say that to martian manhunter. Next time mmh get brought up are marvel fanboys gonna hold the same token they hold for ss?
Now you are full on trolling mode comparing Manhattan to surfer, it’s like comparing scarlet witch to lucifer Morningstar, yeah they both use magic, but that’s like comparing little league baseball to mlb superstar
I know you fanboying marvel cause you are bored, I was doing that too, but don’t get too carried away here

i think astner is just bored, dont get me wrong he is well versed in comic books

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because there is no difference between this:

And this:

Surfer doesn't even say he's using cosmic awareness. He just says he knows, without attributing it to anyone or anything.

I mean, did he learn of it after Galactus told him? He read about it on Zenn La? On Taa II? He time travelled and learnt about it in Glads ' past? He used cosmic awareness and meditated on it for an hour? He just found out about it?

How is it applicable to a fight where Supes is barrelling down at him at top speed?

https://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20F-M/HulkvsGladiator04.jpg
https://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20F-M/HulkvsGladiator05.jpg

Alas.

Originally posted by MrMind
i think astner is just bored, dont get me wrong he is well versed in comic books

Aster is the intelligentest man I've ever known.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because there is no difference between this:

And this:

For instance, in the first panel, the speaker is Silver Surfer.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Surfer doesn't even say he's using cosmic awareness. He just says he knows, without attributing it to anyone or anything.

I'm picturing it in Bela Lugosi's Dracula voice.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How is it applicable to a fight where Supes is barrelling down at him at top speed?

Originally posted by Smurph
Well, there are some differences.

For instance, in the first panel, the speaker is Silver Surfer.

"I'm USING my awareness of the COSMOS to know all your embarrassing secrets Gladiator! Beware!"

I'm picturing it in Bela Lugosi's Dracula voice.

He has feats of processing info very quickly. But again, I think Supes is so fast it doesn't matter at any rate.

Hence, tenuous, as it isn't shown. I don't think it's a stretch to say Surfer, a guy who has been all over the universe, would know what Strontians are weak to.

Is MY interpretation tenuous? Sure. I don't know either - Surfer doesn't say he's using cosmic awareness, just as he doesn't say that he heard about it surfing the cosmos.

Logan however seems to have picked something up, which means either he dissected and studied Strontians first hand, or he heard about it somewhere. And if we allow that in the Marvel U there exists knowledge on Strontian weaknesses such as pressure points, it follows that radiation wavelengths would also be, whilst not COMMON knowledge, knowledge.

Especially if someone like Hulk can discern it mid-battle.