Defenders vs Black Adam

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Sad part is Its pretty easy to show BA as pretty OP based on his on screen feats, but arguments for him here are just terrible.

But hey if we want to just go by power set then Surfer goes Intangible through any hits directed at him and hits BA with power enough to drill through the planet. Hes even been shown moving faster tbh.

So BA using his speed to statue the battlefield is arguing powerset?
Really?
Especially when he has done it multiple times in the movie in character?

And don't give me that stupid BA will choose to not statue beings that have superpowers (although he has in the movie).

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Even if it takes but a thought.....it's like a guy who knows 637 different g this sequence on a script where the fight needs to look sexy and last a good while.languages, who was trained by Bruce Lee and Muhammad Ali, who knows how to drive every vehicle ever made, armed with an unbreakable super sharp sword etc etc....

And I fire a bullet at him.

I know what your saying and i'm not debating anything, but in order for BA to take the Surfer out he would basically need to one shot him and I don't think thats feasible. Oh well.

There's no actual point in debating this match-up deeming a clear winner because there's to many unknown aspects. I'm only opinionating who I think would win with no actual facts because I don't really know the Surfers higher limits.

Originally posted by h1a8
Yes in general. But some feats can be accomplished ALL THE TIME. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know the difference.

DS covered this.
There are levels to speed. Humans can hits humans because a human's speed is within the range of human speed.

Your argument is wrong when it comes to things being SIGNIFICANTLY FASTER (I.e Statuing things and beings)

It is faulty logic that a statue can hit you because slower humans can hit faster humans. You see how dumb that is?

Now you can argue that Surfer will never be a statue to BA and that Surfer will move and react fast enough (with superspeed) that he has a chance of reacting to and hitting BA. That's the proper argument.
Not that statues can hit people because slower humans can hit faster humans.

What you aren't grasping is that the Surfer isn't going to engage in fisticuffs so the whole point of trying to hit BA is a moot point. If the Surfer feels he's threatened, its going to be a wide area release of cosmic power.

Originally posted by h1a8
Yes in general. But some feats can be accomplished ALL THE TIME. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know the difference.

DS covered this.
There are levels to speed. Humans can hits humans because a human's speed is within the range of human speed.

Your argument is wrong when it comes to things being SIGNIFICANTLY FASTER (I.e Statuing things and beings)

It is faulty logic that a statue can hit you because slower humans can hit faster humans. You see how dumb that is?

Now you can argue that Surfer will never be a statue to BA and that Surfer will move and react fast enough (with superspeed) that he has a chance of reacting to and hitting BA. That's the proper argument.
Not that statues can hit people because slower humans can hit faster humans.

Where did I ever claim humans can hit BA? I said superhumans can hit BA,as was proven time and time again in his movie. You can't keep on ignoring his feats dude. You know how this works.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Where did I ever claim humans can hit BA? I said superhumans can hit BA,as was proven time and time again in his movie. You can't keep on ignoring his feats dude. You know how this works.

You basically saying BA can't statue someone solely because they possess super powers and not because they possess a sufficient amount of speed.
Dumbest argument ever.

Originally posted by h1a8
You basically saying BA can't statue someone solely because they possess super powers and not because they possess a sufficient amount of speed.
Dumbest argument ever.

Yet, you keep stating he is just going to statue anybody he comes up against even though his actual movie feats show differently.

Now what is the dumbest argument ever?

Originally posted by h1a8
1)So BA using his speed to statue the battlefield is arguing powerset?
Really?
Especially when he has done it multiple times in the movie in character?

2)And don't give me that stupid BA will choose to not statue beings that have superpowers (although he has in the movie).

1) Name the multiple times so we can analyse how relevant they are.

2) Tell me did he choose to statue Hawkman and Doctor Fate during their multiple fights in the movie or did he chose not to statue them every single time they fought?

Originally posted by FrothByte
A forum fight might not be scripted but we're still basing it off of the movies and shows they came from. You can't disregard their movie feats due to them being scripted, because in doing so the entire character we're talking about ceases to exist. Or they cease to have any feats at all.

I agree on this.

BA has speed feats, and punchy feats. Surfer has great versatility feats, but no speed feats (that people have said).

Match starts.

If Surfer has no speed feats, we can't just....assume he has the speed to react to a Rock-sized, superstrong, magical bullet hitting him. That's all.

If he doesn't have the speed feats to react, then does he have the durability feats to tank/withstand a Rock-sized, super-strong magical bullet hitting him?

If he does, then...fire away, and he turns BA into Teth-Adam made of jelly or somesuch.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Where did I ever claim humans can hit BA? I said superhumans can hit BA,as was proven time and time again in his movie. You can't keep on ignoring his feats dude. You know how this works.

Surely you recognise that superhuman speed, like superhuman strength, has levels to it, right?

Luke Cage isn't as strong as Hulk/Thor. We agree on this - all three characters are superstrong, yet Luke is never beating Hulk in a strength contest.

Flash and Deadpool are superfast (DP could block bullets etc). DP is never beating Flash in a speed contest.

So just because characters are 'superhuman', doesn't mean they automatically can match each other in speed or strength.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
1) Name the multiple times so we can analyse how relevant they are.

2) Tell me did he choose to statue Hawkman and Doctor Fate during their multiple fights in the movie or did he chose not to statue them every single time they fought?

This then circles back to 'he didn't do it, because the plot demanded he didn't'. Plot which does not exist in the forum fight - the bad guys don't always lose, the hero doesn't always win etc.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This then circles back to 'he didn't do it, because the plot demanded he didn't'. Plot which does not exist in the forum fight - the bad guys don't always lose, the hero doesn't always win etc.

OR it's simply not in character for him to do so. Forum fights require fighting in character.

It's also possible that statuing the battlefield limits his other abilities, which is why he chooses to fight that way. Can't say for sure, but we only go by on screen feats here, and combatants fight in character.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
OR it's simply not in character for him to do so. Forum fights require fighting in character.

It's also possible that statuing the battlefield limits his other abilities, which is why he chooses to fight that way. Can't say for sure, but we only go by on screen feats here, and combatants fight in character.

Will it be in character for him to hold his abilities (speed etc) back if it costs him the fight? Go back to my flame example - if someone suddenly holds a flame to your bare skin, you will subconsciously jerk your hand away and avoid it...

But I will bite - what will Surfer, in character, do to BA? And when he does this, IF it starts hurting him (like my flame example) - are you saying he will consciously hold his speed back so that it hurts him, to the point he loses the match?

Originally posted by h1a8
You basically saying BA can't statue someone solely because they possess super powers and not because they possess a sufficient amount of speed.
Dumbest argument ever.

Here's your argument: BA have statued humans before, therefore he can statue Silver Surfer

Here's my argument: BA have been hit by pretty much every superhuman he's faced, multiple times. Therefore Surfer can hit him.

Based on the fact that Silver Surfer is superhuman and my argument is based on BA's feats against superhumans (whereas yours is based only on his feats against humans), then my argument is more valid.

End of discussion.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Here's your argument: BA have statued humans before, therefore he can statue Silver Surfer

Here's my argument: BA have been hit by pretty much every superhuman he's faced, multiple times. Therefore Surfer can hit him.

Based on the fact that Silver Surfer is superhuman and my argument is based on BA's feats against superhumans (whereas yours is based only on his feats against humans), then my argument is more valid.

End of discussion.

BA has statued humans and perceived bullets in slow motion.
Surfer is not faster than a bullet in combat nor does he have the reactions to react to a bullet. Therefore Surfer would be either a statue or moving very very slowly (slower than a bullet).

Why was BA hit in the movie?
Was it because the attacks were faster than what he can respond to?
Or
He allowed himself to be hit?
Or
The script allowed it (ignored his speed perception) in order to create adversity?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
OR it's simply not in character for him to do so. Forum fights require fighting in character.

It's also possible that statuing the battlefield limits his other abilities, which is why he chooses to fight that way. Can't say for sure, but we only go by on screen feats here, and combatants fight in character.

Why will it be out of character for BA to use speed and perceptions?
Especially when he did it to both humans and superhumans?

Originally posted by tkitna
Yet, you keep stating he is just going to statue anybody he comes up against even though his actual movie feats show differently.

Now what is the dumbest argument ever?

In a forum fight he can statue anything that doesn't move and react SIGNIFICANTLY faster than a human.
How is that a dumb argument?

Originally posted by h1a8

In a forum fight he can statue anything that doesn't move and react SIGNIFICANTLY faster than a human.
How is that a dumb argument?

Because Surfer is SIGNFICANTLY faster than a human, but yet you are still holding onto the perception that he will be statued by BA. And even if we admit BA is faster than Surfer per feats, Surfer only needs a fraction of a second for thought and then BA is a nonfactor.

Originally posted by tkitna
Because Surfer is SIGNFICANTLY faster than a human, but yet you are still holding onto the perception that he will be statued by BA. And even if we admit BA is faster than Surfer per feats, Surfer only needs a fraction of a second for thought and then BA is a nonfactor.

1. Prove that Surfer is significantly faster than a human in combat situation.
Significantly faster than a human is defined as least a couple of times faster than a bullet. Because anything slower can be easily perceived by BA as moving in slow motion.

2. What can Surfer do to BA in a fraction of a second that will make BA a nonfactor?

I mean, let's not ignore that BA actually DID use his speed against Hawkman, and was tossing him about with one hand without him being able to do anything about it:

That is already more than what we've seen Surfer do. Hawkman, who is fast enough to react to BA's lightning:

Look at how he's able to react to and form a shield.

So Hawkman, on feats alone, is already faster than Surfer (being able to react to lightning). Yet BA still threw him about with one hand.

Unless....now Hawkman is holding his speed back? His superspeed is only viable against lightning, and not against punches?

Or are we attributing it to a scripted plot for a fight?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I mean, let's not ignore that BA actually DID use his speed against Hawkman, and was tossing him about with one hand without him being able to do anything about it:

Finally using Actual On Screen feats! That's more like it.

And no, nobody would ask you to ignore on screen feats, but don't expect us to make yours or H1's arguments for you either.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Finally using Actual On Screen feats! That's more like it.

And no, nobody would ask you to ignore on screen feats, but don't expect us to make yours or H1's arguments for you either.

But....that was the point all along. That he used his speed in fights.

For some reason you and others were saying he didn't. I didn't realise you guys didn't know of these scenes....

It's like someone swearing up and down that Superman can't fly....I thought it was so painfully obvious that the films had scenes of him flying, I didn't think I needed to post scenes of him doing so....

Originally posted by h1a8
1. Prove that Surfer is significantly faster than a human in combat situation.
Significantly faster than a human is defined as least a couple of times faster than a bullet. Because anything slower can be easily perceived by BA as moving in slow motion.

2. What can Surfer do to BA in a fraction of a second that will make BA a nonfactor?

1. Seriously? He was dodging and swatting missiles. No human is capable of that. And why does a couple of times faster than a bullet have to be the definition of being faster than a human?

2. You have got to be kidding me right now right?