Weakest person in Marvel or DC that can survive!!!

Originally posted by carver9
Why are you putting 30 powered men together, that's not how DB works, lmmfao. 50 men with a powerlevel of 750k can't even scratch a man with a power level of 1 mill. That's how this works.

So abhi is right and it isn't linear and doesn't scale. Thanks.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Or Dragon ball is just inconsistent and doesn't has linear scaling. Case in point the farmer with shotgun has a power level of 5, is he 1/30 moon level?

Originally posted by Galan007
Eh, I have never argued that DB uses linear scaling... Quite the opposite, actually. All PLs and tier placement really do is give us a simple way to help scale the characters.

Sounds like Carver just....doesn't understand and simply argues against everything he sees other people post, lmao.

Glad I helped you understand abhi's post, carvy!

You guys watch, Carver simply cannot admit that he was wrong about abhi, and wlll attempt to argue it IS linear and scales, lmao.

Yeah, PLs do not work linearly in DB... And you don't even have to go the energy attack route to realize that.

Lets use Mercenary Tao as an example. His Cyborg form is credited with a PL of 210, and was said to be much stronger than his human form... So we'll be generous and assume that human form Tao had a PL of 200.

That said, the guy casually threw a large stone pillar 2,300km/1,429mi in a very short amount of time(he said it would be faster than taking an airplane, and that he'd be back in 30mins):
https://ibb.co/6r9H1TK
https://ibb.co/BjxHVqM
https://ibb.co/2jM8BQ9
https://ibb.co/17TR3N3

There are entire pages dedicated to calc'ing all aspects of that feat, but that's irrelevant here. The point is that if you assume the average adult earthling's PL=5, then it would take 40 people to 'match' Tao's PL. However, 40 people...even working together...still aren't replicating that feat. Not even remotely close.

We just wish as fat middle aged guys that enough of us can blow up the moon 🙁

Turn into a fictional character and you can.

Originally posted by Galan007
Eh, I have never argued that DB uses linear scaling... Quite the opposite, actually. All PLs and tier placement really do is give us a simple way to help scale the characters.

ie. OG Roshi can destroy the moon with max-diff. This means anyone with a PL =/> 139 can do the same(assuming they can produce high-level energy attacks, obvs)... Because that's just how it works in DB.

-Same thing with Saiyan saga Vegeta being able to destroy planets with high-diff. This means anyone with a PL =/> 18k can do the same.
-Same thing with 1st form Freeza being able to destroy planets with no-diff. This means anyone with a PL =/> 530k can do the same.
-etc. etc. etc. (and don't even get me started on God-level power.)

IOW, if a character has a PL of 1m, we don't need to see them effortlessly destroy a planet on-panel/screen to know they still can(even in the absence of collaterally significant feats)... Nor do we need to see them fight someone with a PL of 500k to know they would literally no-sell every single one of the weaker character's attacks(Cell, for example, wouldn't even flinch at an all-out blast from Namek-era Freeza.) It's not always the collateral scale of the attack that matters -- it's about the potency the attack contains within a given area.

Toriyama at least made power-scaling very easy to understand in that respect.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That doesn't always works in DBZ, by scaling nowadays DB characters should be universal/multiversal but as recently as Moro arc had Moro threaten to destroy the galaxy and that was supposed to be a big deal.

Get it right. His DEATH was about to destroy a Galaxy. Superman death didn't even destroy a building.

Not that collateral damage matters

Originally posted by carver9
Get it right. His DEATH was about to destroy a Galaxy. Superman death didn't even destroy a building.

Superman would probably just absorb it all. Probably.

He did it against Mageddon, who had antisun energy in him.

Originally posted by carver9
Turn into a fictional character and you can.

You're welcome. I just can't stop winning against you.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Superman would probably just absorb it all. Probably.

He did it against Mageddon, who had antisun energy in him.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That doesn't always works in DBZ, by scaling nowadays DB characters should be universal/multiversal but as recently as Moro arc had Moro threaten to destroy the galaxy and that was supposed to be a big deal.

Originally posted by Galan007
It's not always the collateral scale of the attack that matters -- it's about the potency the attack contains within a given area.

The Moro scene is really no different than Semi-Perfect Cell's detonation in that respect:

Given that we know:
Semi-Perfect Cell >> Imperfect Cell >> #17 > SS1 Vegeta(early Android arc) > SS1 Goku(Namek arc) > 4th form Freeza >>>>>>>> 1st form Freeza(a casual planet-buster)

...Do you really think the potency of Cell's detonation 'only' capped at planet-level?

OR we can also refer back to SS2 Majin Vegeta's kamikaze detonation in the Boo arc: Vegeta released the sum total of his energy(killing himself in the process) to try and destroy Boo, yet it ultimately just left a massive crater on the battlefield:
https://ibb.co/w6XH1C5
https://ibb.co/1n3JD2Y
https://ibb.co/nMDZqs6
https://ibb.co/HBHthkc

...Do you really think the potency of Vegeta's detonation 'only' capped at nuke-level?

If your answers to the above are 'no', then why wouldn't the same logic also apply to the Moro scene? ie. The range/scale of his imminent detonation may have 'only' been galaxy-level, but the potency within that area may have been vastly beyond that.

Because like you mentioned: the anime and manga have both established that even when two n00b-SSG level opponents fight(Beerus was suppressing himself down to Goku's level), it can result in the destruction of the entire universe:
https://ibb.co/NpWPdq5

...And Angel-Moro is literally hundredS/thousandS of times beyond n00b-SSG level.

tl;dr
Like I keep reiterating: in the world of DB, the amount of collateral damage an attack causes is not always indicative of the attack's true power/potency within a designated area... Hence, again, why the Kamehameha that MUI Goku used to drop Jiren is >g_infinity the Kamehameha that OG Roshi used to destroy the moon(despite the latter causing FAR more collateral damage than the former.)

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Galan wouldn't dare respond to this, the coward 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
Uhuh, but as I said:

The Moro scene is really no different than Semi-Perfect Cell's detonation in that respect:

Given that we know:
Semi-Perfect Cell >> Imperfect Cell >> #17 > SS1 Vegeta(early Android arc) > SS1 Goku(Namek arc) > 4th form Freeza >>>>>>>> 1st form Freeza(a casual planet-buster)

...Do you really think the potency of Cell's detonation 'only' capped at planet-level?

OR we can also refer back to SS2 Majin Vegeta's kamikaze detonation in the Boo arc: Vegeta released the sum total of his energy(killing himself in the process) to try and destroy Boo, yet it ultimately just left a massive crater on the battlefield:
https://ibb.co/w6XH1C5
https://ibb.co/1n3JD2Y
https://ibb.co/nMDZqs6
https://ibb.co/HBHthkc

...Do you really think the potency of Vegeta's detonation 'only' capped at nuke-level?

If your answers to the above are 'no', then why wouldn't the same logic also apply to the Moro scene? ie. The range/scale of his imminent detonation may have 'only' been galaxy-level, but the potency within that area may have been vastly beyond that.

Because like you mentioned: the anime and manga have both established that even when two n00b-SSG level opponents fight(Beerus was suppressing himself down to Goku's level), it can result in the destruction of the entire universe:
https://ibb.co/NpWPdq5

...And Angel-Moro is literally hundredS/thousandS of times beyond n00b-SSG level.

tl;dr
Like I keep reiterating: in the world of DB, the amount of collateral damage an attack causes is not always indicative of the attack's true power/potency within a designated area... Hence, again, why the Kamehameha that MUI Goku used to drop Jiren is >g_infinity the Kamehameha that OG Roshi used to destroy the moon(despite the latter causing FAR more collateral damage than the former.)

so by "attack potency" youre basically saying that a blast that just looks nuke level from the outside can actually have planet level power (or whatever) inside of that zone, right? i get that, but doesnt that also mean large scale showings of collateral damage basically count for nothing then? 😕

Large scale collateral damage would have - at a minimum - that level.

So a planet destroying attack could well be a solar system level one, I.e.its not limited to planets. But it's not a city level attack.

I took can chime in!

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
good post.

so by "attack potency" youre basically saying that a blast that just looks nuke level from the outside can actually have planet level power (or whatever) inside of that zone, right? i get that, but doesnt that also mean large scale showings of collateral damage basically count for nothing then? 😕

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Galan wouldn't dare respond to this, the coward 👆

I thought I remembered Cage soaking a nuke or somesuch... But now I can't recall the amount of damage it actually caused to him, and hell, it might've(?) even been an alt. universe version for all I know.

srug

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
so by "attack potency" youre basically saying that a blast that just looks nuke level from the outside can actually have planet level power (or whatever) inside of that zone, right? i get that, but doesnt that also mean large scale showings of collateral damage basically count for nothing then? 😕

This might help to further illustrate my point when it comes to attack potency...

Pure Boo fires an attack that would have destroyed earth, but Vegeta was able to block it:
https://ibb.co/q0hf0B1
https://ibb.co/PrTK1hN
"He tried to blow up the earth without warning... Good save, Vegeta."

Immediately afterward, Pure Boo launches a far more potent earth-buster, which Goku/Vegeta weren't powerful enough to block:
https://ibb.co/2W77N7R
https://ibb.co/DC5wp3Y
"We can't deflect that!! Boo, stop!!! Please!!! You'll destroy the earth!!!"

IOW, both of Boo's attacks were 'only' planet-level in terms of collateral scale... One just packed a LOT more power/potency than the other.

And no, in some cases grandiose displays/implications of collateral damage can at least help give us a fairly reliable benchmark as to what PL/tier is required to preform certain caliber of feats. ie. two n00b-SSG level characters clashing can destroy the universe, SPC's Kamehameha can destroy the solar system, 1st form Freeza can effortlessly destroy planets, OG Roshi can destroy the moon. etc. etc.

Krillin, for example, has never actually destroyed a moon or planet on-panel/screen. However, his PL(coupled with the ability to produce high-level energy attacks) is all the proof we need to know that he was absolutely capable of moon-busting during the Saiyan saga, and planet-busting during the Namek arc... Because that's just how DB maths typically work across the board.

But at the same time, if Namek arc Krillin hit an opponent with his most powerful/all-out Kamehameha, and it caused very little damage to their surroundings(*see the Piccolo vs. Raditz example I posted earlier*), we could still [rightly] assume that it contained planet-busting+ potency, but was simply localized within a relatively small area. Remember: collateral damage, while sometimes meaningful, is most definitely not always the "final boss" when it comes to determining how strong an energy attack actually is.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not his death, the release of all energy he had.

"Killing Moro". What does killing mean to you? 😆

It even say, "beyond that". At least you're trying. Doomsday death on the moon didn't even leave a crack.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Superman would probably just absorb it all. Probably.

He did it against Mageddon, who had antisun energy in him.

Yeah, he did it while standing in one spot, grabbing it, and absorbing it? 😂

Yep, that's exactly the same as being hit dead on with a Galaxy destroying blast. You're so smart.

Originally posted by carver9
Yeah, he did it while standing in one spot, grabbing it, and absorbing it? 😂

Yep, that's exactly the same as being hit dead on with a Galaxy destroying blast. You're so smart.

It's antisunlight. It's arguably even more impressive as well because he's absorbing it all into himself, rather than being hit by a massive blast.

For example, look at Hiroshima/Nagasaki. There were trees that survived the nuclear bombs - no one would say they were hit with the full force of the bomb, but a tiny percentage of the energy (as it was spread out).

But I guess you're back to your 'i must try and argue against DS because I need something to massage my fragile ego after being owned repeatedly' lol.