Zod vs Wonder Woman

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Whilst the hypothesis from MMH is all well and good, we actually see what is going through Superman's mind during his fight with WW, which is that he was only fighting to prolong Doomsday's suffering, and he was giving no regard to himself or to his surroundings.

Maybe read the comics, pal. The entire epilogue that walked us through Superman's own thought processes relentlessly hammers his goal of wanting to kill Doomsday: "And the truth is that I wanted to kill him with my bare hands."

"And I tried. Oh, how I tried. . . . I wanted him dead. I wanted him to burn."

"He never stops. Which meant I couldn't either..."

"Not until I killed him or he killed me."

Originally posted by abhilegend
Here's Solar man

Originally posted by ODG
Not the first time someone tried to handwave the Sacrifice fight away by invoking Superman's supposed intent to not kill and only make suffer who he thought was Doomsday.

Maybe read the comics, pal. The entire epilogue that walked us through Superman's own thought processes relentlessly hammers his goal of wanting to kill Doomsday

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
The goal is to kill him

So let's not pretend that a bloodlusted Superman wasn't trying to kill a holding-back Wonder Woman.

That notion was one of the most singularly butthurt myths I've ever had to confront here on KMC. I don't need it revived.

Originally posted by ODG
Full-stop. Thank you. 👆 👆

So let's not pretend that a bloodlusted Superman wasn't trying to kill

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
I don't think this is the point of that argument though.

Good to know that you and I both agree that a bloodlusted Superman was trying to kill a holding-back Wonder Woman.

Full-stop. 👆 👆

He wanted him to suffer first, as the scan says. I shouldn't have said 'only' to make him suffer, though.

so what? you think he WASN'T trying to kill her...yet? you think if he wanted to kill her from the get-go he would have? i don't see it. looks like he tried right from the start to end her. the alternative is he wanted her to suffer so he wasn't 'really' trying to kill her? but it's made abundantly clear he DID.

you either think he COULD have killed her but didn't because he wanted to prolong the fight to injure, or you think he was trying to kill her all along. either way, i don't think it can be doubted that he was going all out and all the same-opponent comparisons can't do anything to change that fact imo.

He wanted the end result to be a dead Doomsday, but wanted him to suffer first before he died. That's what the comics text says, which I'm going with /shrug.

that's fine, it just doesn't disprove the idea that he was going all out in order to make her suffer. also seems to imply he didn't try to kill her from the get-go, which at least imo seems seems pretty clear he did. /shrug

Originally posted by leonidas
that's fine, it just doesn't disprove the idea that he was going all out in order to make her suffer. also seems to imply he didn't try to kill her from the get-go, which at least imo seems seems pretty clear he did. /shrug

The idea? Superman literally says he was going all out to make her suffer though?

It's basically a typical "villain boasting in front of the hero" thing, no?
Sure, the villain wants the hero dead. But he wants to boast his ideas/achievements first, and as a result, it gives the hero more chances to fight back

It would be different from a villain who is very calculating, determined to *just* kill his opponent as best as he could without any uncertain factors.

Also, I want it to be clear this is a separate argument from : "Had Superman wanted to from the start, he could have easily killed her". That's a separate thing.

Wanting to kill her and the reality, aren't necessarily the same. I want to say this before people jump at me strawmanning me.

lol i would never....

👆 I strawman strawmen.

Imo the more pertinent fact about the Sacrifice fight is that Wonder Woman gets knocked out in the first half of the fight. That's a forum loss.

In my view, we could quibble about Superman's mindset, but in any event, the fight isn't evidence of her beating Zod.

The reason that I made the point about same opponent comparisons is that I think you see that pattern throughout. She can get some damage in, but none of it seems to tip the balance her way.

Plus, Did anyone address Diana still needs to breathe issue?
I mean, One of Zod's first moves against a magical user(Enchantress) is drawing out the air out of her lungs by Super Breath

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

[/B]

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998

WW still needs to breathe, no? At least, the last time I checked Batman did use similar method to knock out Diana
https://ibb.co/pjw1V5MY

I think Zod's super-breath also would be a problem for WW as Zod can(and did) draw the air from others' lungs by his super breath [/B]

Wasn't WW and Superman near the sun when he knocked her out?

lol, more quibbling.

Either use Sacrifice as the comparator or don't. Zod ko'd a charging Supergirl with one punch. How many punches would it take to ko Wonder Woman?

Wonder Woman holds back, Zod doesn't. Can't compare the two fights.