Batman vs Daredevil

Yeah, for some reason I can't quote you anymore but what I meant to specifically quote was where you said: you say Batman's feats are PIS, Abhi says Elektra's feats are PIS, Carver says Morrison's Superman is PIS... but we could put it all on the table (PIS, CIS, and otherwise) and compare.

I took that to mean you were suggesting an approach that was no longer just about Batman's particular history. Maybe you still meant it just in respect of Batman?

But if we're not just talking about Batman, but rather Batman, Elektra, Superman, and others, then I return to the question about Catwoman and Deathstroke.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Good heavens, we can't call Elektra's feats PIS. What are you, crazy?

Originally posted by Senor Cage
It's not PIS. Nefaria is a poor mans Superman, thus Elektra's feats aren't that impressive to being with. 😉

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh good, you are here.

I mean....you agree with me, lmao.

Do you not see how picky and choosy you are?

Originally posted by Smurph
Yeah, for some reason I can't quote you anymore but what I meant to specifically quote was where you said: you say Batman's feats are PIS, Abhi says Elektra's feats are PIS, Carver says Morrison's Superman is PIS... but we could put it all on the table (PIS, CIS, and otherwise) and compare.

I took that to mean you were suggesting an approach that was no longer just about Batman's particular history. Maybe you still meant it just in respect of Batman?

But if we're not just talking about Batman, but rather Batman, Elektra, Superman, and others, then I return to the question about Catwoman and Deathstroke.

I meant it in just respect to Batman, and in this thread, Elektra too gets her 'outlier/PIS' feats. See how that goes, rather than we all getting bogged down in bullets - ESPECIALLY since I posted what I thought was a rather reasonable post about Batman fighting in a more tanky way compared to Elektra.

Also, you cannot quote me anymore because I am Raz and I took that ability away 👆

Originally posted by carver9
Do you not see how picky and choosy you are?

You were the one who agreed with me that Batman has all these crazy ass feats. Now you want to cry about it now that you got a bit of wind in your sail from seeing other posters engage on this?

Originally posted by carver9
Naah, just Batman. I think you all overrate most of Superman showings and take them out of context (Superman powering up and destroying a Universe. Superman destroying the multiverse when punching World Forger are examples of this). Batman is a different grain of salt.

Batman, Cap, Logan are like the exceptions, am sure if I looked a bit harder with time/inclination I would find you saying this.

Are you now....NOT saying this? That they are NOT the exceptions, and should be treated the same?

@Dark...

So you want to gleam over how you pick and choose comic scene and that youre not reliable at all. There's a lot of words for people that are like this.

Nobody has said that Deathstroke has so many ridiculous feats its impossible to call it PIS.

Tbf, I think you have specifically argued that the consistency of Deathstroke tagging Flash makes it difficult to rule as a one-off instance of plot stupidity.

And I raise Deathstroke despite him not being in the thread, because of Pr's specific reference to him when clarifying the PIS/CIS/in character rules:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=16847474#post16847474

If you put Deathstroke up against Flash and try to argue using Identity Crisis as evidence, you deserve to get laughed out of the thread. Like a whole lot of Marvel and DC, you get a writer that writes interesting character studies, or great fights. You rarely get both, and that fight, as entertaining as it was, should have been over before Deathstroke was even able to exhale.

Imo, the Batman: Confidential fight is even more egregious than Identity Crisis. It's... basically fan fiction and should be disregarded on the same logic that Pr dismisses Identity Crisis.

Originally posted by carver9
@Dark...

So you want to gleam over how you pick and choose comic scene and that youre not reliable at all. There's a lot of words for people that are like this.

So speak plain. Is Batman a special case, yes or no?

Originally posted by Smurph
Tbf, I think you have specifically argued that the consistency of Deathstroke tagging Flash makes it difficult to rule as a one-off instance of plot stupidity.

And I raise Deathstroke despite him not being in the thread, because of Pr's specific reference to him when clarifying the PIS/CIS/in character rules:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=16847474#post16847474

Imo, the Batman: Confidential fight is even more egregious than Identity Crisis. It's... basically fan fiction and should be disregarded on the same logic that Pr dismisses Identity Crisis.

Pr has also specifically said Bats is a special case (as Carver well knows) when clarifying outliers Vs consistency, so.....

It just seems to me that for a good while, Batman was seen to be a special case by a number of posters, myself included. And now, many posters are saying hang on, these are actually PIS and should be ignored after all.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So speak plain. Is Batman a special case, yes or no?

Pr has also specifically said Bats is a special case (as Carver well knows) when clarifying outliers Vs consistency, so.....

It just seems to me that for a good while, Batman was seen to be a special case by a number of posters, myself included. And now, many posters are saying hang on, these are actually PIS and should be ignored after all.

Bat's mere involvement doesn't explain Flash, Wonder Woman and Hal acting like feebs and imbeciles.

I don't think any posters have said that we need to blindly accept any panel with Batman in it, no matter how stupid. He might be a special case in the sense that he can frequently do things that should be impossible, but that doesn't mean that we abandon any sense of his character and leave reading comprehension at the door.

At the end of the day, he's still a comic book character, and all comic book characters, no matter how special, sometimes have their established character subverted by plot or writer stupidity.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So speak plain. Is Batman a special case, yes or no?

Lol... this man dodge better than Michael Vic. Glad we've finally came to the conclusion that youre a hypocrite. It's crazy that you can't even see your own flaws. Are you the type that blame your problems on everyone else?

Originally posted by Smurph
Bat's mere involvement doesn't explain Flash, Wonder Woman and Hal acting like feebs and imbeciles.

That’s basically Bats superpower.

Barring all the PIS feats from both, Batman still has the better, more versatile feats. Kinda hard pressed to beat a street like Batman with all his appearances.

Originally posted by Parmaniac

Originally posted by Juntai
Never read JLA before?

That’s basically Bats superpower.

Originally posted by Senor Cage
Barring all the PIS feats from both, Batman still has the better, more versatile feats. Kinda hard pressed to beat a street like Batman with all his appearances.

👆

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... this man dodge better than Michael Vic. Glad we've finally came to the conclusion that youre a hypocrite. It's crazy that you can't even see your own flaws. Are you the type that blame your problems on everyone else?

Originally posted by Smurph
I don't think Pr's commentary on Bats can be used to justify saying that this fight isn't plot/writer induced stupidity:

Bat's mere involvement doesn't explain Flash, Wonder Woman and Hal acting like feebs and imbeciles.

I don't think any posters have said that we need to blindly accept any panel with Batman in it, no matter how stupid. He might be a special case in the sense that he can frequently do things that should be impossible, but that doesn't mean that we abandon any sense of his character and leave reading comprehension at the door.

At the end of the day, he's still a comic book character, and all comic book characters, no matter how special, sometimes have their established character subverted by plot or writer stupidity.

I literally quoted Leo saying Batman has so many crazy feats it’s impossible to call them pis anymore.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes or no, is he a special case?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I literally quoted Leo saying Batman has so many crazy feats it’s impossible to call them pis anymore.

He has now - but my point was that yes, we DID have posters saying Batman was a special case back then, but we didn't AT THE TIME have anyone saying the same for Deathstroke. We had quotes like this:

Originally posted by leonidas
Lol. Excuses already? Kk has somewhere in the neighbourhood of 400 appearances. That should be more than sufficient. And of course everything would count. Batman has so many crazy feats it’s impossible to call them pis anymore. If kk is so far above these guys it shouldn’t be that hard to prove it finally. Like I said I’ll happily concede if it’s warranted. I’m not even saying he isn’t better. But the degrees of difference people attribute between him and others bares being proven finally. Here’s everyone’s chance.

EVERYTHING counted. There wasn't AT THE TIME any contextualising or caveats saying 'everything counts, IF WE CONSIDER his background and the tier he traditionally occupies'. No.

So, not analogous. Unless we had posters seriously saying things like 'Everything counts for Deathstroke and Catwoman, they do these feats so often it's impossible to count them as PIS', then, your example falls short.

When we have people saying things like:

Originally posted by -Pr-

Batman doesn't count. Batman never counts.

but with Deathstroke/Catwoman, sure.

Originally posted by Smurph
Yeah, and he's put that in context for you to understand, like... 3 times now?

geezus. thank you. i never realized the full extent of my own influence. lol he's taking my misinterpreted opinion as forum canon. i suppose i should be flattered?

and of course the argument of 'full capability' is very flawed--or rather it solves nothing because it degenerates into the 'what IS full capacity' for a character which degenerates into what is or isn't pis. a fully capable batman is NOT allowed to move ftl in a forum match. he's not a h2h jla buster. i just...i don't know what you're point is. you keep shing ftl batman. jla busting batman. why? the feats are cool but don't have bearing in a match because they are NOT admissible unless you're arguing that HE should be seen as ftl in matches and a jla buster. which you he's not. so why bother. he's a special case? of course. i accept more from him than i do most characters. but--obvious is obvious?--there are limits.

and of course i thought it was asinine to attribute the entire history of batman's feats to an imp 😐

this is going in circles though 👆