Batman vs Daredevil

Originally posted by Smurph
Batman can dodge heat vision, that's not PIS. Streets dodge lasers all the time.

Batman moving after the HV was fired, is another story. I've seen him do that on exactly one occasion, so I'm not sure what the "several" others are.

Here's Batman reflecting heat vision back with a mirror.

https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB7INZ

That's not dodging heat vision like street levelers dodge lasers.

Conversely, I've shown you Elektra repeatedly intercepting point blank gunfire and moving after the bullet is fired. And there are other recent similar feats. The comics keep emphasizing her speed.

Street level characters do that too. Why's Elektra so special? Also where are her supersonic speed feats to show her faster than bullets?

There's no "having it both ways". Batman cannot move at speeds comparable to heat vision. Elektra can react within the span of point blank gunfire. There's no contradiction there. Insisting otherwise just comes off as whiny.

Of course there is. Unless you can show Elektra moving around in supersonic speed, her being faster than bullets is as much PIS.

That's cool but it's not much of a speed feat.

You're plainly wrong about how PIS and proof works. Not much more to say about that.

Originally posted by Smurph
That's cool but it's not much of a speed feat.

You're plainly wrong about how PIS and proof works. Not much more to say about that.

You're verging on Thorbag territory where Thor is as fast as Superman because reasons and PIS. Just say you've got nothing.

😂 no, the issue is that the HV was an ongoing attack. Batman's use of the mirror is clever but it's not a reflex feat.

I've proven my point about Elektra's feats. Your refusal to engage in good faith isn't my problem. Why would I waste my time repeating myself? All that you'll do is plug your ears and whine.

the mirror feat is no more impressive than you holding up a mirror and reflecting a laser pointer's light.... the beam was constant. he could see it. totally different if the beam is fired and in the space of time that it takes to reach him bats grabs a mirror and reflects it. those two things are universes apart. not sure how anyone can be realistically arguing that bats has legit ftl combat reflexes. moving in the space between when a bullet is fired and reaches its target and moving in the space between when a laser is fired and reaches its targets are orders of magnitude in terms of difference. street levellers do the former all the time--or do things similar to it all the time. true ftl speed feats? without pis? ❌

Speed won't be an issue for either. If Black Widow can fight Elektra, Batman can as well. It's skill that will determine the winner.

Originally posted by Smurph
😂 no, the issue is that the HV was an ongoing attack. Batman's use of the mirror is clever but it's not a reflex feat.

I've proven my point about Elektra's feats. Your refusal to engage in good faith isn't my problem. Why would I waste my time repeating myself? All that you'll do is plug your ears and whine.

Originally posted by leonidas
the mirror feat is no more impressive than you holding up a mirror and reflecting a laser pointer's light.... the beam was constant. he could see it. totally different if the beam is fired and in the space of time that it takes to reach him bats grabs a mirror and reflects it. those two things are universes apart. not sure how anyone can be realistically arguing that bats has legit ftl combat reflexes. moving in the space between when a bullet is fired and reaches its target and moving in the space between when a laser is fired and reaches its targets are orders of magnitude in terms of difference. street levellers do the former all the time--or do things similar to it all the time. true ftl speed feats? without pis? ❌

https://postimg.cc/McJRnYgY
https://postimg.cc/SXL9CMhb
https://postimg.cc/zb0RPYvd

Batman was shown reacting and moving his entire body out of the way after the beam was already in the air - not before it fired.

We can argue PIS if needed, but the feat still stands as a light-speed movement and reaction showing.

I have been arguing PIS. Keep up.

Originally posted by Smurph
I have been arguing PIS. Keep up.

Oh ok.

Originally posted by Smurph
😂 no, the issue is that the HV was an ongoing attack. Batman's use of the mirror is clever but it's not a reflex feat.

It wasn't?

I've proven my point about Elektra's feats. Your refusal to engage in good faith isn't my problem. Why would I waste my time repeating myself? All that you'll do is plug your ears and whine.

Good faith argument? You mean I must accept you on your words but you won't accept mine because Batman can't move at lightspeed but Elektra can move at supersonic speed?

Originally posted by leonidas
the mirror feat is no more impressive than you holding up a mirror and reflecting a laser pointer's light.... the beam was constant. he could see it. totally different if the beam is fired and in the space of time that it takes to reach him bats grabs a mirror and reflects it. those two things are universes apart. not sure how anyone can be realistically arguing that bats has legit ftl combat reflexes. moving in the space between when a bullet is fired and reaches its target and moving in the space between when a laser is fired and reaches its targets are orders of magnitude in terms of difference. street levellers do the former all the time--or do things similar to it all the time. true ftl speed feats? without pis? ❌

Originally posted by abhilegend
It wasn't?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Good faith argument? You mean I must accept you on your words but you won't accept mine because Batman can't move at lightspeed but Elektra can move at supersonic speed?

Batman has FTL speed reaction since he can keep up with Val Armor 😉

When has Elektra or DD faced someone as skilled?

Originally posted by carver9
Does he blitz Slade and break his neck before he could react? Bane? Bronze Tiger? Lady Shiva?

vs Bronze Tiger

upload host

vs Cayman...

upload host

If Batman can blitz Katana who can deflect gunfire from 2 gatling guns at the same time

But can't blitz any of the above

Logic dictates that the above characters are faster than Katana

and thus faster than Elektra

I am sorry that Elektras feats are complete dog shit.

Originally posted by RadZoa
If Batman can blitz Katana who can deflect gunfire from 2 gatling guns at the same time

But can't blitz any of the above

Logic dictates that the above characters are faster than Katana

and thus faster than Elektra

I am sorry that Elektras feats are complete dog shit.

Katana >>>Elektra 😖hifty:

Originally posted by Smurph
Correct.

And you know this how?

You don't have to accept me on my word. The feats speak for themselves. You're the one trying to invalidate them. Burden is on you, not me.

I'm not invalidating shit, Elektra's lack of supersonic speed feats make her being too quick for bullets PIS. Bring the supersonic speed feats for Elektra and prove yourself.

A nonpowered human is going to have a rough time outfeating Batman.

Elektra or DD could beat Batman, he's lost to less. But, Batman for the clear majority.

[and yes, Im aware DD has his enhanced senses, and Elektra has sometimes shown random abilities as well, but Bats has shown flat out superhuman abilities as well.]

Marvel's also attributed their enhanced stats to magic.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And you know this how?

Originally posted by Juntai
A nonpowered human is going to have a rough time outfeating Batman.

Elektra or DD could beat Batman, he's lost to less. But, Batman for the clear majority.

[and yes, Im aware DD has his enhanced senses, and Elektra has sometimes shown random abilities as well, but Bats has shown flat out superhuman abilities as well.]

It's funny sometimes because when Batman is pissed, most fighters with enhanced whatever or super powered human will flat out lose. But on some occasions, he'll have a problem with someone who he should clearly beat. The curse of a character who has tons of appearances.