WWH - DOS Doomsday - Rebirth Superman

So this all comes about, because when a thread says 'WWH vs Superman', say, then scaling occurs.

1. Savage Hulk did XYZ
2. We have on panel statements that WWH > Savage
3. WWH thus does what a weaker incarnation does, and it scales from there. He can smash asteroids 200xEarth. Walk through attacks that repel 5x reality, whatever.

It basically ignores how badly written the WWH storyline was. If the most powerful Hulk of all time (at the time) can't even catch Strong Guy or Beast (or whatever low example one wants to use) then....Savage would be statued by Beast of all people.

If the most powerful Hulk of all time was devolved into Gray, then any Tom/Dick/Harry can casually turn Savage into a mouse and step on him. That kind of thing, as an example.

My rule? WWH gets his feats from that arc and that arc only. If you want to use DoS Doomsday, you say it in OP and HP Doomsday doesn't suddenly appear.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
See Carv's posts, lol. Darwin can pull feats from X-factor v3 #213, published in 2011, 4 years after WWH. In another thread, Carver brings up Invisible Woman's feats from Dec 2019, so nearly 13 years after the WWH story arc, yet when discussing DoS Doomsday and his feats, his opponents (Superman) is limited to the DoS storyline.

Originally posted by Galan007
I understand what Pr was getting at(he was basically just trying to avoid confusion by isolating versions or w/e), but it does come off as biased and needs to be changed.

That said, I edited that particular section out of the ruling... I just didn't like how it sounded (and the implications it creates.) I'm open to hearing [fair] renditions of the ruling, though, if anyone has some input there...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah that's Carver, he doesn't always pick the best examples to support a point... but what about my examples?

Edit: you missed my point - its not that Carver chose the wrong examples, at all. It is blatant double standards, that you are (Willfully?) ignoring - Darwin gets all his feats across time, to show how powerful WWH is.

But Superman is restricted to DoS, to show how weak DoS Doomsday is.

Yeah, I feel the problem here is the double standard in Carver's part.
I mean, it basically what says here

Originally posted by darthgoober
If everything that's logically consistent applies(stuff before the arc chronologically in-universe), that should apply to everyone. Any standard is fine as long as everyone's drinking from the same water fountain.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Edit: you missed my point - its not that Carver chose the wrong examples, at all. It is blatant double standards, that you are (Willfully?) ignoring - Darwin gets all his feats across time, to show how powerful WWH is.

But Superman is restricted to DoS, to show how weak DoS Doomsday is.

My point is that DoS Doomsday should be limited to DoS, in a thread that calls for DoS Doomsday.

At the same time, the people he meets aren't limited to DoS.

Because he kept insisting on weaker versions, people then mirrored him using Calaton and the GL showings for Doomsday.

As long as the rule is applied fairly and consistently, I really ahve no problem with it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My point is that DoS Doomsday should be limited to DoS, in a thread that calls for DoS Doomsday.

At the same time, the people he meets aren't limited to DoS.

Because he kept insisting on weaker versions, people then mirrored [B]him using Calaton and the GL showings for Doomsday.

As long as the rule is applied fairly and consistently, I really ahve no problem with it. [/B]

And to be clear, I actually used to be the one those who downplayed the likes of Savage and Professor Hulk. It wasn't until after DC fans started scrambling to do the same thing to WWH that I spotted the complete lack of consistency in how Hulks judged relative to other characters across the board.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Carver was here for years before you joined DS, have you really went through all the threads from before you got here to chicken and egg when the double standard started? Cause I was here before WWH was even a thing, and I can definitely say that he wasn't the source of the double standard. When Hulk performs well, folks have always said it's because his opponents play down to him and judge his fights based on the feats his opponents accomplish in that specific story... it didn't start with the WWH arc. But if DD does well against Supes, they want to scale the fight using all of Supes's best feats even though DD couldn't kill Pee Wee Herman level Booster, Supes got KOd by an exploding gas station, and they weren't hitting hard enough to shatter windows until the end of the fight.

And to be clear, I actually used to be the one those who downplayed the likes of Savage and Professor Hulk. It wasn't until after DC fans started scrambling to do the same thing to WWH that I spotted the complete lack of consistency in how Hulks judged relative to other characters across the board.

Oh, sorry, I thought you were genuinely asking in good faith. Nvm.

So we have two routes, right, as long as it is applied equally to both sides.

Route 1
If OP states 'DoS' and 'WWH', all combatants and the characters they interacted with are restricted to that story arc. Superman got KOd by a gas station, so killing him is a nothingburger, and WWH making Darwin teleport away isn't anything to write home about, nor is breaking IW's shields in one hit, nor is breaking Colossus' arms. All a nothingburger, because......all the characters were written to make WWH and Doomsday look good. What did Colossus do in the story except get crumpled? Nothing.

Route 2
Characters are limited to their story arcs, but the characters they interacted with aren't. How do we know WWH breaking Sue's shields in one hit is impressive? Well, here is what Sue has done. Why is beating Dr Strange impressive? These are his feats. Why is killing Superman impressive? Here are his feats.

Route 3 - bonus route!!!
Nothing matters. If the thread says WWH, I can use Savage then ramp up to WBH if needed. If the OP wants Bendis Superman, I use Byrne Superman's highest ever feats, plunk on some statements about how he was weakened, then extrapolate. OP stipulations aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Superman stated that Lobo's power was nothing compared to DoS Doomsday - so I take that statement, use Lobo decadeS later chucking living suns around, and extrapolate off that. This is what we are - barely- clinging on to, and the floodgates will be opened should it all be allowed.

AS I said before, am perfectly reasonable, and as long as the rule - whatever it is - is applied equally, then I have no issue with it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh, sorry, I thought you were genuinely asking in good faith. Nvm.

So we have two routes, right, as long as it is applied [b]equally to both sides.

Route 1
If OP states 'DoS' and 'WWH', all combatants and the characters they interacted with are restricted to that story arc. Superman got KOd by a gas station, so killing him is a nothingburger, and WWH making Darwin teleport away isn't anything to write home about, nor is breaking IW's shields in one hit, nor is breaking Colossus' arms. All a nothingburger, because......all the characters were written to make WWH and Doomsday look good. What did Colossus do in the story except get crumpled? Nothing.

Route 2
Characters are limited to their story arcs, but the characters they interacted with aren't. How do we know WWH breaking Sue's shields in one hit is impressive? Well, here is what Sue has done. Why is beating Dr Strange impressive? These are his feats. Why is killing Superman impressive? Here are his feats.

Route 3 - bonus route!!!
Nothing matters. If the thread says WWH, I can use Savage then ramp up to WBH if needed. If the OP wants Bendis Superman, I use Byrne Superman's highest ever feats, plunk on some statements about how he was weakened, then extrapolate. OP stipulations aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Superman stated that Lobo's power was nothing compared to DoS Doomsday - so I take that statement, use Lobo decadeS later chucking living suns around, and extrapolate off that. This is what we are - barely- clinging on to, and the floodgates will be opened should it all be allowed.

AS I said before, am perfectly reasonable, and as long as the rule - whatever it is - is applied equally, then I have no issue with it. [/B]

And by potential, I mean not normally accessible carver. That one kid made a point of explaining that Hulk's always holding back even when thinks he's going all out. It's something he could potentially reach in a thread that might otherwise be a stalemate, not something he can activate consciously as an easier route to victory.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Your bonus round seems a little off. The implications seems to be that using things outside of the specific is ignoring the OP even when they're logically consistent. My personally feeling is that the specific arc hould represent the cut off, but everything that's logically supported is included in the package. DOS Supes gets everything before the arc. HP DD gets DOS and the recognized implications of his power beyond what was specifically demonstrated in that arc. WWH gets Savage Hulk with World Breaker recognized as a [b]potential cap. I think the double standard lies in making Hulk threads specify that everything logical should apply as though that's any more unreasonable than asking the same of DD or Supes.

And by potential, I mean not normally accessible carver. That one kid made a point of explaining that Hulk's always holding back even when thinks he's going all out. It's something he could potentially reach in a thread that might otherwise be a stalemate, not something he can activate consciously as an easier route to victory. [/B]

Yeah, well, you and I both know that's never happening, lol. Even from a mere 2 months ago:

Originally posted by carver9
But my scan shows him going WBH to take out a threat. 🤷🏾‍♂️

Also, why would he go WBH in a restaurant or in the city when theirs civilians around?

Him powering up was pushing everything around him away and created a big a** crater in the ground...

Pushing things back...

This would've devastated NY...

In a forum fight, he doesn't have to worry about civilians. The above would obviously kill people around him. Also, most of the time, he doesn't need WB, even against King Thor.

When I bring up your point:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hulk needs a specific set of circumstances to go WBH levels. If Spidey tells yo mama jokes ad nauseam, he's not reaching those levels. If Bushwhacker shoots his eyes out, he's not going WBH. If King Thor is beating the crap out of him and he needs Susan Storm to bail him out, he doesn't go WBH.

Originally posted by carver9
This is what you said. Let's not try to twist things because you were wrong. Thanks. Heck, there's one time where Hulk was standing on a cliff talking to Skaar and went WB and turned it off immediately. Glad that argument is out of the way. I'll leave the rest for you and stoic.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Carver was here for years before you joined DS, have you really went through all the threads from before you got here to chicken and egg when the double standard started? Cause I was here before WWH was even a thing, and I can definitely say that he wasn't the source of the double standard. When Hulk performs well, folks have always said it's because his opponents play down to him and judge his fights based on the feats his opponents accomplish in that specific story... it didn't start with the WWH arc. But if DD does well against Supes, they want to scale the fight using all of Supes's best feats even though DD couldn't kill Pee Wee Herman level Booster, Supes got KOd by an exploding gas station, and they weren't hitting hard enough to shatter windows until the end of the fight.

And to be clear, I actually used to be the one those who downplayed the likes of Savage and Professor Hulk. It wasn't until after DC fans started scrambling to do the same thing to WWH that I spotted the complete lack of consistency in how Hulks judged relative to other characters across the board.

This explains all of it. This. This. And this.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, well, you and I both know that's never happening, lol. Even from a mere 2 months ago:

When I bring up your point:
]

Even though I said this, it doesnt mean I can't come to an agreement afterwards on what you or Darth are saying

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, well, you and I both know that's never happening, lol. Even from a mere 2 months ago:

When I bring up your point:

Originally posted by darthgoober
Two months ago the rule we're talking about changing was in play.

Yes, I understand that, lol. I am pointing out that Carver is going to do exactly whatyou say he shouldn't-every Hulk thread is going to have WBH appearing.

You don't know that. Also, did WWH/Greenscar appear in later comics?

Originally posted by carver9
You don't know that. Also, did WWH/Greenscar appear in later comics?

Please, this isn't my first day on the forum, lol. Even when the rule that we are discussing was in play, you were already trying to push WBH appearing in a thread for WWH, despite forum rules at the time specifying WWH was limited to his appearances in the WWH story arc.

What do you think will happen if that restriction is gone?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, I understand that, lol. I am pointing out that Carver is going to do exactly whatyou say he shouldn't-every Hulk thread is going to have WBH appearing.

Green Scar ramped instantly to planetary level strength.

Originally posted by carver9
You don't know that. Also, did WWH/Greenscar appear in later comics?

Doom and Banner got rid of the Green Scar persona. Brain surgery. Not sure why people are saying that the Green Scar wasn’t operating at incredibly high levels, but it’s canon. Yes he can output power that would annihilate an entire planet and do it on a dime. It was a state of mind that he learned to achieve via meditative practices performed on Sakaar. Canon.