If god is perfect, god is satan

in the Christian religion, god is perfect in everyway and all powerful. we know this isnt true because of the hundreds of contradictions but lets take it as fact.

if god is perfect in EVERYWAY then he must be the perfect good AND the perfect evil. if he is not, then he is not truly perfect, because he is lacking. similarly, if god is perfect he must never lie, and be the best liar ever. we come to a paradox here, because he can never do wrong, yet is the perfect wrongdoer.

Depends on your definition of perfect.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
in the Christian religion, god is perfect in everyway and all powerful. we know this isnt true because of the hundreds of contradictions but lets take it as fact.

if god is perfect in EVERYWAY then he must be the perfect good AND the perfect evil. if he is not, then he is not truly perfect, because he is lacking. similarly, if god is perfect he must never lie, and be the best liar ever. we come to a paradox here, because he can never do wrong, yet is the perfect wrongdoer.

Mythology can be so much fun. 😄

I generally dislike omnipotence paradoxes (they're easy to come up with...this is just one example). The classic example is "Can god make a rock so heavy he can't lift it?"

Chicken's assumptions about God actually don't match a good deal of Christian dogma (omniscient, yes. Omnipresent, yes. But perfectly good would be used to describe God, not perfectly everything). Perfection in a Christian sense would include only those virtues they consider to be good and "perfect." So to say that describing him as perfect means "perfectly evil" (among other things) betrays a misunderstanding of the usage of such terms in a theistic setting. And paradoxes in general don't get to the heart of the issue and just try to flummox believers with a question with two wrong answers (from a theistic perspective) and no right one. It's a false dichotomy, and once you realize that, usually paradoxes can be reconciled with traditional views of the divine.

The fact that I agree with chicken here is irrelevant, because this mode of attack has little merit imo, and is easily countered.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Mythology can be so much fun. 😄

Indeed.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
in the Christian religion, god is perfect in everyway and all powerful. we know this isnt true because of the hundreds of contradictions but lets take it as fact.

if god is perfect in EVERYWAY then he must be the perfect good AND the perfect evil. if he is not, then he is not truly perfect, because he is lacking. similarly, if god is perfect he must never lie, and be the best liar ever. we come to a paradox here, because he can never do wrong, yet is the perfect wrongdoer.

Perfect in the sense that he is all good.

The only contingent being in the universe.

But God can not do bad for himself. "All good" can only mean all good for God so it's completely possible

Originally posted by chickenlover98
in the Christian religion, god is perfect in everyway and all powerful. we know this isnt true because of the hundreds of contradictions but lets take it as fact.

if god is perfect in EVERYWAY then he must be the perfect good AND the perfect evil. if he is not, then he is not truly perfect, because he is lacking. similarly, if god is perfect he must never lie, and be the best liar ever. we come to a paradox here, because he can never do wrong, yet is the perfect wrongdoer.

Now that's perfection!

😮‍💨

Hehe...nice answers all. Like I said, not a fruitful line of attack most of the time.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Hehe...nice answers all. Like I said, not a fruitful line of attack most of the time.

I think that the paradox he constructed her was pretty weak anyway...doesn't quite match up with the more convention "unliftable rock" thing. Though, such arguments are illogical really...its not so much a paradox as flying in the face of the obvious.

God is perfect because he defines pefect, being the creator of everything and omnipotent. Because we only see/experience a fraction of what is going on in existance, we can hardly judge what is or isn´t pefect.

And using the rules of this world to create omnipotence paradoxes such as DigiMark007 mentioned "Can god make a rock so heavy he can't lift it?" is rather silly, especially when you consider the odd happens in quantum physics where you can throw the physical laws which govern our world out the window. Who knows what other odd law "zones" there are, and if God is even part of them which I doubt.

A bit of deep thinking can bring you to areas you wouldn´t believe.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
God is perfect because he defines pefect,...

Circular logic.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Circular logic.

You can´t use the human word Logic (logic is the philosophical study, or the formal science, of the principles of valid inference and demonstration) in this situation, because all our logic is based on the earthly discoveries and laws, a speck a in vast universe.

There are probably other laws, and sciences out there which may appear illogical, but still exist.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
And using the rules of this world to create omnipotence paradoxes such as [B]DigiMark007 mentioned "Can god make a rock so heavy he can't lift it?" is rather silly, especially when you consider the odd happens in quantum physics where you can throw the physical laws which govern our world out the window. Who knows what other odd law "zones" there are, and if God is even part of them which I doubt.[/B]

Lulz at the bold, but I was just mentioning it to point out a classic example of such logic. I wasn't actually employing it as part of my argument.

Though simply appealing to the "oddness" of quantum physics, and speculating that there may be others, is really just blind but fanciful meandering, and gets us nowhere. Hard as it is to understand from a layman's perspective, quantum mechanics follows observable rules and patterns. It's not mystical voodoo, and remains in the realm of empirical science.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
You can´t use the human word Logic (logic is the philosophical study, or the formal science, of the principles of valid inference and demonstration) in this situation, because all our logic is based on the earthly discoveries and laws, a speck a in vast universe.

There are probably other laws, and sciences out there which may appear illogical, but still exist.

"There are probably other laws, and sciences out there which may appear illogical, but still exist." You would have to prove that before I would even consider it.

I was just informing you that you are using Circular logic. Circular logic is a sign that you have not thought through your argument. You cannot dismiss this error in thinking by calling it mystical. The problem is with your thinking. Work on it harder.

Evil and Good, are arbitrary categories created by man. In reality they're degrees of the same thing. G8d is 3vil and Evil is a form of the G8d. Like the wave particle duality, the problem of evil arises out of man's feeble categorization but in reality there is no problem.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
in the Christian religion, god is perfect in everyway and all powerful. we know this isnt true because of the hundreds of contradictions but lets take it as fact.

if god is perfect in EVERYWAY then he must be the perfect good AND the perfect evil. if he is not, then he is not truly perfect, because he is lacking. similarly, if god is perfect he must never lie, and be the best liar ever. we come to a paradox here, because he can never do wrong, yet is the perfect wrongdoer.

You do have a point, but God decreed that sin is not the way. Sin goes against God's will. This does not mean Sin is not apart of God. It is like a parent laying ground rules for their children and not following those rules themselves. Like a parent, God gave us life and gave us rules to live by. In hopes that we may follow his will. The instructions of God's will are there for us to follow so that we can become as divine as possible. If you believe in God then you have Faith. If you Faith, then you believe that God has a plan and is infallible. If God does, indeed, have a plan and is infallible. This means Satan was apart of his plan. God is everything, both, good and evil. So, if God is all knowing and is both good and evil. It comes down to the individual to make their own choice...,the greatest gift and only freedom we have. Do you believe in his existence? If you do, will you follow the few words he has given us? Today, there is not very much to add to the concept of a God...,other than our desire of wanting to believe. Maybe, that desire is all there ever was, but there is still a desire.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
in the Christian religion, god is perfect in everyway and all powerful. we know this isnt true because of the hundreds of contradictions but lets take it as fact.

if god is perfect in EVERYWAY then he must be the perfect good AND the perfect evil. if he is not, then he is not truly perfect, because he is lacking. similarly, if god is perfect he must never lie, and be the best liar ever. we come to a paradox here, because he can never do wrong, yet is the perfect wrongdoer.

Originally posted by Deja~vu
In the Christian Bible/religion is says that god is in all things seen and unseen, so, god is in Satan also.

Co-Signed

The Devil is Perfect Evil, therefore he is perfect Good, in a way, the Devil is God's bad side, this is why the Devil is so powerful, if you watch the Exorcist, you'll see that the Devil couldn't be so evil, he couldn't do the things he did unless he knew what it was like to be good.

God can't change who he is, he can't be good or bad, he has to be neutral, every part of him cancels out with opposites, he isn't a man, this is why he created Jesus Christ, once he created Jesus Christ, since he IS in all things seen and unseen, he CAN be good, Jesus isn't perfect, unlike the Angels, unlike the Devil, unlike God, Jesus is man, Jesus has the ability to feel pain, and chose, God was willing to see the outcome of his creation, Jesus Christ, what Jesus Christ chose, God would be, and once Jesus Christ chose to be Crucified, the devil was canceled out, and God was perfect in one way, good.

And it's not that Jesus chose to be crucified, it's that he chose not to curse, or scream, or become evil in the process.

But then the bible contridicted itself

Originally posted by Deja~vu
In the Christian Bible/religion is says that god is in all things seen and unseen, so, god is in Satan also.

T 😉

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
You do have a point, but God decreed that sin is not the way. Sin goes against God's will. This does not mean Sin is not apart of God. It is like a parent laying ground rules for their children and not following those rules themselves. Like a parent, God gave us life and gave us rules to live by. In hopes that we may follow his will. The instructions of God's will are there for us to follow so that we can become as divine as possible. If you believe in God then you have Faith. If you Faith, then you believe that God has a plan and is infallible. If God does, indeed, have a plan and is infallible. This means Satan was apart of his plan. God is everything, both, good and evil. So, if God is all knowing and is both good and evil. It comes down to the individual to make their own choice...,the greatest gift and only freedom we have. Do you believe in his existence? If you do, will you follow the few words he has given us? Today, there is not very much to add to the concept of a God...,other than our desire of wanting to believe. Maybe, that desire is all there ever was, but there is still a desire.

but if god knows everything nothing is a choice. with complete prior knowledge your destined to preform an action, therefore negating anysort of choice