Force Users vs. X-men (unbiased and clean)

Many of you nerds have been trying to hide behind various shitty arguments that amount to mostly just petty word games and mostly baseless claims about character's powers. Well, too bad. This thread prevents that.

This thread includes any movie version of the characters I've listed. No more gimping or restricting character powers with shitty arguments.

Here are the teams:

X-men:
Xavier (any feats from any of the movies)
Magneto
Cyclops
Jean Gray (no Phoenix powers)
Wolverine
Quicksilver
Emma Frost

Force Users:
Darth Sidious
Yoda
Kit Fisto
Ki Adi Mundi
Anakin Skywalker (to include any iteration including pre and post-Suit Vader)
Luke Skywalker
Mace Windu

Scenario 1:
Xavier gets access to a fully functional Cerebro and all X-men are in or around the Cerebro chamber. The Jedi infiltrate the mansion and they are after the X-men. They must kill all the X-men to prevent what they think is an apocalypse. Jedi morals are turned off: they will go for the best and most efficient kills. Assume Cerebro does not work on non-humans (Kit, Ki, and Yoda).

Scenario 2:
They meet across each other in the Stadium that Magneto collected in Days of Future Path. Both teams are in the field but at exact opposite ends from one another. Same as Scenario 1: CIS is turned off and characters will go for the kills.

To compromise on the adamantium arguments: pretend Wolverin's adamantium cannot be cut with strikes and slashes but it can be slowly melted through if the saber's blade is held against the metal for an extended period of time (almost like the Jedi against the blast doors in Phantom Menace). Wolverine can be slowly chopped to pieces if he's not careful.

Notice how my thread is constructed to include all movies the characters appear in and it does not restrict any powers? Not how the thread also says CIS is off so "in-character" arguments cannot be made? Yeah, this needs to be done more often instead of the shitty troll threads I see popping up.

dadudemon
Many of you nerds have been trying to hide behind various shitty arguments that amount to mostly just petty word games and mostly baseless claims about character's powers.

😐

[quote]dadudemon
Again, I do not have anyone arguing against one of my points: Xavier can target all of their minds and kill all of them.

The_Tempest
Your argument assumes it's axiomatic when it isn't. Where is the evidence of prequel!Xavier mindhaxxing other psychics/telepaths in such a way as is relevant here?

dadudemon
There is no evidence.

😬

Originally posted by The_Tempest
😐

😬

If I could edit that post, I would change it to, "There is not direct evidence" but there is indirect evidence as I indicate in that very same post. I don't like dealing in indirect evidence.

Please do not misuse my points.

Argue the thread or stay out. Don't troll.

Originally posted by dadudemon
If I could edit that post, I would change it to, "There is not direct evidence" but there is indirect evidence as I indicate in that very same post. I don't like dealing in indirect evidence.

Right, so the only evidence you had to support your argument was evidence with which you personally dissatisfied... and yet the expectation was for others to adhere to it?

dadudemon
Argue the thread or stay out. Don't troll.

😐

dadudemon in this very thread
Many of you nerds have been trying to hide behind various shitty arguments that amount to mostly just petty word gamesand mostly baseless claims about character's powers. Well, too bad. This thread prevents that.

😬

Originally posted by dadudemon
Many of you nerds have been trying to hide behind various shitty arguments that amount to mostly just petty word games and mostly baseless claims about character's powers. Well, too bad. This thread prevents that.

Translation, I’m still butt hurt over the wiping I got in the Jedi vs X-Men thread.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Scenario 1:
Xavier gets access to a fully functional Cerebro and all X-men are in or around the Cerebro chamber. The Jedi infiltrate the mansion and they are after the X-men. They must kill all the X-men to prevent what they think is an apocalypse. Jedi morals are turned off: they will go for the best and most efficient kills. Assume Cerebro does not work on non-humans (Kit, Ki, and Yoda).

Originally posted by dadudemon

Scenario 2:
They meet across each other in the Stadium that Magneto collected in Days of Future Path. Both teams are in the field but at exact opposite ends from one another. Same as Scenario 1: CIS is turned off and characters will go for the kills.

Once again you lose!

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Right, so the only evidence you had to support your argument was evidence with which you personally dissatisfied... and yet the expectation was for others to adhere to it?

😐

😬

You know what I see? I see you throwing a fit, like a toddler because you cannot hide behind gimping and restrictions in this thread. 😐

Also, why are you taking those words so personally (the ones you quoted of mine) when they clearly refer to posters form both sides of the argument and refer to 9 pages of posts? Pretentious, much? 😐

You're still off topic and trolling, though. If you continue to post off topic and troll, I'll just ignore you. You can play you toddler games with someone else.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Whine, whine, whine.

Translation, I’m still butt hurt over the wiping I got in the Jedi vs X-Men thread.

Don't feel so badly about being destroyed so thoroughly in that thread, man. 🙂

Originally posted by Kotor3
Xavier starts messing with Sidious and Vader minds who sense him and all the X-Men and force chokes them. Xavier dies since he cannot use his mental powers while he being choke to death along with the rest of the X-Men while the Jedi make themselves at home.

I agree that if any of the force users reach Xavier, he's chopped meat.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Vader force chokes Magneto while Sidious force lighting him just for fun. Then they force choke the other X-Men for fun.

Once again you lose!

We know that Magneto can still use his powers when under mortal duress. There's nothing stopping magneto from attacking back while he's choking.

So how do they deal with Cyclops and Quicksilver?

Edit- Thanks for posting on topic. 🙂

Originally posted by dadudemon
You know what I see? I see you throwing a fit, like a toddler because you cannot hide behind gimping and restrictions in this thread. 😐

Yes, a user who has already conceded victory to the mutants in the previous thread is clearly devastated by another thread in which the mutants are likely victorious. That makes an abundance of sense. 😬

Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, why are you taking those words so personally (the ones you quoted of mine) when they clearly refer to posters form both sides of the argument and refer to 9 pages of posts? Pretentious, much? 😐

Er... who said I was taking this personally? I've been nothing but civil with you and the rest of the pro-mutant faction in this thread and the other. I'm just exposing your glaring hypocrisy behind my badass shades of wisdom, bro.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You're still off topic and trolling, though. If you continue to post off topic and troll, I'll just ignore you. You can play you toddler games with someone else.

It's a "toddler game" to expose weaknesses in your remarks? 😬

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yes, a user who has already conceded victory to the mutants in the previous thread is clearly devastated by another thread in which the mutants are likely victorious. That makes an abundance of sense. 😬

Strawman: this comment assumes that I've stated you were supporting the Force Users when no such position was undertaken on my part.

Here, I see more fit-throwing and tantrums on your part and now you've delved into the territory of logical fallacies to try and throw those fits. 🙂

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Er... who said I was taking this personally?

I just did because you've directed my words at yourself multiple times, now.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I've been nothing but civil with you and the rest of the pro-mutant faction in this thread and the other. I'm just exposing your glaring hypocrisy behind my badass shades of wisdom, bro.

Oh, you've been civil, eh? I don't consider insulting and trolling to be "civil" discourse. 🙂

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It's a "toddler game" to expose weaknesses in your remarks? 😬

You think you've exposed a weakness in my remarks?

Edit -So far, there is nothing impressive about anything you're trying to do. Nothing really worth discussing. If you wish to continue this, take it to PMs. You will only get replies to your off-topic discourse and trolling via PMs, from here on out. 👆

Originally posted by dadudemon
Don't feel so badly about being destroyed so thoroughly in that thread, man. [QUOTE=14797859]Originally posted by dadudemon
[B]Don't feel so badly about being destroyed so thoroughly in that thread, man. 🙂

Originally posted by dadudemon
We know that Magneto can still use his powers when under mortal duress. There's nothing stopping magneto from attacking back while he's choking.

Before I continue are the other mutants including Xavier here with Magneto?

Originally posted by dadudemon
So how do they deal with Cyclops and Quicksilver?

Vader has shown that he does not need to move in order to force choke you. He has done so to people across space in ESB while taking.

As you can see I have sided with the Jedi and my arguments are only in the behalf.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Strawman: this comment assumes that I've stated you were supporting the Force Users when no such position was undertaken on my part.

Here, I see more fit-throwing and tantrums on your part and now you've delved into the territory of logical fallacies to try and throw those fits. 🙂

😂

How, pray-tell, would I be "hiding under gimping and restrictions" and not be supporting the Force Users?

Originally posted by dadudemon
I just did because you've directed my words at yourself multiple times, now.

Er... where?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Oh, you've been civil, eh? I don't consider insulting and trolling to be "civil" discourse. 🙂

Kindly show where I've insulted you, my son. From what I see, the only one who has hurled open insults here is you:

dadudemon in this very thread
Many of you nerds have been trying to hide behind various shitty arguments that amount to mostly just petty word games and mostly baseless claims about character's powers. Well, too bad. This thread prevents that.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You think you've exposed a weakness in my remarks?

Indeed. Repeatedly and consistently. 🙂

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Either way, though, we're back to Xavier not demonstrating the prowess to subdue multiple telepaths in a manner relevant to the context of this thread.

This particular argument has already been addressed by me.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
No one's denying that Xavier is the superior telepath by sheer power and technique, but I have a hard time believe he's capable of mindraping fellow telepaths on their guard without some serious amp.

It's okay. That's just your conclusion.

My conclusion is the exact opposite. Xavier's power doesn't rely on "will-power" to resist like Jedi's power. They don't even work on the same mechanism. There is no reason to assume Xavier's powers don't work on the Force Users except in the case of Kit and Yoda. Even then, that's a stretch to think their neurology is so drastically different as to be unaffected.

Originally posted by dadudemon
This particular argument has already been addressed by me.

I don't believe it has, unless I missed it. Notice I dropped the qualifier here. Where has Xavier (any film incarnation) demonstrated the powers to subdue multiple telepaths in a manner relevant to the other thread?

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's okay. That's just your conclusion.

My conclusion is the exact opposite. Xavier's power doesn't rely on "will-power" to resist like Jedi's power. They don't even work on the same mechanism. There is no reason to assume Xavier's powers don't work on the Force Users except in the case of Kit and Yoda. Even then, that's a stretch to think their neurology is so drastically different as to be unaffected.

According to what source does Force-based telepathy and Xavier's work "on different mechanisms?"

Originally posted by Kotor3
But his attack won’t be targeted. More so his powers may be out of controlled and hurt his teammates. It really won’t take that long for him to die from force choke. Two the Jedi and Sith are too fast. What would stop Sidious or Yoda from blitzing Magneto?

Did you even watch Days of Future Past? He literally has Beast try and drown him for nearly a minute, and then uses his powers (while still under water), without control issues, to bind Beast using the metal bars on the fountain.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Really, Cyclops would be no problem. They would dodge his attack and knock him out with TK or force choke him. Quicksilver would be a problem only if the Jedi cannot sense him which I see no reason why. If they can sense him then they would likely be able to attack him.

Quicksilver is leagues faster than any force user has ever been depicted as being, in any of the Star Wars films. He could literally give them all atomic wedges before they had any chance of sensing him.

In anyways, seeing as Xavier gets ALL of his feats, he can mentally rape any of the human jedi. Especially in scenario 1, where he gets Cerebro. X2 showed that Xavier + Cerebro could wipe every living human or mutant off the planet. And Xavier can in fact also use his abilities while under physical duress, as he mind controlled Magneto in DoFP while buried under large pieces of broken scaffolding. Which leaves Yoda, Ki and Kit to face all of the X-men.

All your arguments seem to be based on the X-men acting like friggin' retards and just standing around while the force users attack them one by one.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I don't believe it has, unless I missed it. Notice I dropped the qualifier here. Where has Xavier (any film incarnation) demonstrated the powers to subdue multiple telepaths in a manner relevant to the other thread?

Go back and read the other thread.

Here is a link to it:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t597948.html

You have not earned enough respect from me for me to go through the effort and quote my own posts at you. You can definitely redeem yourself, though. 🙂

Originally posted by The_Tempest
According to what source does Force-based telepathy and Xavier's work "on different mechanisms?"

Oh, so Xavier's telepathy works via The Force?

I had no idea!!!! 😆 😆 😆

You clearly did not think your troll question through, did you?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Did you even watch Days of Future Past? He literally has Beast try and drown him for nearly a minute, and then uses his powers (while still under water), without control issues, to bind Beast using the metal bars on the fountain.

So tell me, how is Magneto going to get the metal to hit the Sith when there is two of them before they choke his life out? Let us not forget that Vader doesn’t need to be still raising his hands in order to force choke you.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Quicksilver is leagues faster than any force user has ever been depicted as being, in any of the Star Wars films. He could literally give them all atomic wedges before they had any chance of sensing him.

My counter argument is that if Quicksilver does not knock them out with the first or second hit he dies from force choke.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
In anyways, seeing as Xavier gets ALL of his feats, he can mentally rape any of the human jedi. Especially in scenario 1, where he gets Cerebro. X2 showed that Xavier + Cerebro could wipe every living human or mutant off the planet. And Xavier can in fact also use his abilities while under physical duress, as he mind controlled Magneto in DoFP while buried under large pieces of broken scaffolding. Which leaves Yoda, Ki and Kit to face all of the X-men.

All your arguments seem to be based on the X-men acting like friggin' retards and just standing around while the force users attack them one by one.

One Sith could force choke all of them simultaneously.

The X-Men only have a chance if they are in close vicinity of the force users otherwise if they are too far X-Men get raped.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Go back and read the other thread.

Here is a link to it:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t597948.html

You have not earned enough respect from me for me to go through the effort and quote my own posts at you. You can definitely redeem yourself, though. 🙂

You're shirking the burden of proof again, I see. If you are unable or unwilling to provide evidence for your claims, there's really no point in continuing.

I graciously accept your concession but would be interested in discussing this further if, at a later time, you're able and/or willing to carry on properly.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Oh, so Xavier's telepathy works via The Force?

I had no idea!!!! 😆 😆 😆

You clearly did not think your troll question through, did you?

It wasn't a troll question, my son. You seem unusually hostile.

If your point was that Xavier's telepathy and that of the Jedi originate from different sources, then sure. That's pretty obvious.

But that still has nothing to do with whether or not Xavier can mindhaxx the Jedi in a manner relevant to the circumstances we were discussing in the other thread.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You're shirking the burden of proof again, I see.

You can pretend the post doesn't exist. Sure. But do you think that bodes well for your position?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
If you are unable or unwilling to provide evidence for your claims, there's really no point in continuing.

I provided evidence: I gave you the thread. It would take you 5 minutes, tops, to find it, quote it, and respond to it. Why so lazy, bro?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I graciously accept your concession but would be interested in discussing this further if, at a later time, you're able and/or willing to carry on properly.

No, I am definitely not interested in carrying on a "discussion" with you that you yourself are unwilling to undergo. Don't be lazy. Go read the other thread.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It wasn't a troll question, my son. You seem unusually hostile.

"ZOMG! He called out my trolling! He's clearly hostile! Time to go to mommy."

That's not how reality works, my child.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
If your point was that Xavier's telepathy and that of the Jedi originate from different sources, then sure. That's pretty obvious.

I graciously accept your concession. I won't rub it in that you were wrong about something but made a fool out of yourself fighting against the point. No, I will ignore that and take the high ground. 🙂

Originally posted by The_Tempest
But that still has nothing to do with whether or not Xavier can mindhaxx the Jedi in a manner relevant to the circumstances we were discussing in the other thread.

What thread are we in, again? Are you going to at least attempt to post on topic? 🙂

Originally posted by dadudemon
You can pretend the post doesn't exist. Sure. But do you think that bodes well for your position?

I provided evidence: I gave you the thread. It would take you 5 minutes, tops, to find it, quote it, and respond to it. Why so lazy, bro?

No, I am definitely not interested in carrying on a "discussion" with you that you yourself are unwilling to undergo. Don't be lazy. Go read the other thread.

That's... not how the burden of proof works, my son. You can PM me if and when you change your mind.

Originally posted by dadudemon
"ZOMG! He called out my trolling! He's clearly hostile! Time to go to mommy."

That's not how reality works, my child.

My mistake. You are a beacon of serenity. 😐

Originally posted by dadudemon
I graciously accept your concession. I won't rub it in that you were wrong about something but made a fool out of yourself fighting against the point. No, I will ignore that and take the high ground. 🙂

What was I wrong about, again?

Originally posted by dadudemon
What thread are we in, again? Are you going to at least attempt to post on topic? 🙂

I believe you were the one who chose to transpose the argument from the previous thread here, my son. I can actually link you to the post where you opted to do that, if you like. (This would be me making a claim and offering to satisfy the burden of proof correspondingly.) Meaning you are responsible for this discussion.

They can sense Quicksilver all they want. Based on feats he moves so fast that they'd be statues and wouldn't even be in he process of registering to use the Force before he's zipping around like a cracked out cruise missile.

Quicksilver puts on his music, makes the Force Users fall onto their own sabers. Like all of them.