Captain America vs Batman(no shield-no gadgets)

Started by namorsubby220 pages

Originally posted by darthgoober
So you're not willing to open yourself up to the possibility of being wrong by comparing feats?

No Cap's known AS an American Symbol, that's not what he's known for among the Super Hero community. Cap leads nearly every major assault on team busting villains(well the fights that he's available for anyway) for one reason.... he's the best at it. If he weren't known for the that kind of thing, he wouldn't have been the one to command the final assault in JLA/Avengers. And yes I know the the arc isn't canon for forum purposes I'm using it to show that he IS known for that kind of thing to quite a few people.

Simple. He's got a "peak human" brain, the government sparred no expense, and it's a comic. Kang's even specifically stated that when it comes to fighting styles Cap learns in days that which takes others years to master.

And it's featured in a scan with him and Baron Zemo that's been floating around the forum for a while now. I'm surprised you haven't already seen it...

fine then, DG, post your feats.......but, i warn you, i've seen them many times.....and i may have the order in which they're placed memorized.lol

so cap's a great commander......a leader in battle, not a better tactician. think about it? who do all these supremely over-powered DC characters run to when the whole universe is at stake and their laundry list of ridiculous powers can save them? batman.......and who saves the day? batman.

i doubt cap could learn anything faster than bruce......he's simply not as smart.

so he's stated so, but where's the proof?........if we went off of boast from characters.......galactus vs namor underwater would be spite.lol

Originally posted by namorsubby
how? where did he learn all of these and when did he have the time? that makes no sense.......the original statement from his early appearances concerning his MA training stated 3 MA's which he was adept in, any contradiction to that is little more than an inconsistency unless backed by hard evidence.

how many times has namor said his strength can't be matched underwater? but we all know if any supreme being took a visit down there(even his beloved neptune), that statement would be proven false.

how many powerful beings have stated that they can't be defeated or that they are all powerful, only to be proven wrong a few issues later

No, his early appearences just stated he got the best training the US government could provide, those 3 styles you mentioned are from the handbooks and even the handbooks list his skill at a 7, which Marvel defines as "all styles".

Here is a scan where he mentions being adept at all forms.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/26/51111219_e11f72dd24_o.jpg

As for the time argument, I have to wonder why you aren't questioning how Batman managed to learn 127 styles. But since you asked

Avengers#53(468)

Marcus: Initial analysis indicates that they are using the inchoate energies within the pyramid to duplicate our simulacrum-projection technology, though how skilled can they---

Kang: Enough, do not underestimate them. Captain America is an astounding warrior-- he has never fought under these conditions before-- but already he adapts- mastering the form more completely than many who’ve trained for decades, it is what makes him such a worthy foe

Originally posted by Silent Master
No, his early appearences just stated he got the best training the US government could provide, those 3 styles you mentioned are from the handbooks and even the handbooks list his skill at a 7, which Marvel defines as "all styles".

Here is a scan where he mentions being adept at all forms.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/26/51111219_e11f72dd24_o.jpg

As for the time argument, I have to wonder why you aren't questioning how Batman managed to learn 127 styles. But since you asked

Avengers#53(468)

Marcus: Initial analysis indicates that they are using the inchoate energies within the pyramid to duplicate our simulacrum-projection technology, though how skilled can they---

Kang: Enough, do not underestimate them. Captain America is an astounding warrior-- [b]he has never fought under these conditions before-- but already he adapts- mastering the form more completely than many who’ve trained for decades, it is what makes him such a worthy foe [/B]

bruce has been all over the world studying for many years to master art-forms and still continues to as he fights crime(well, not at the moment)..........it makes much more sense than one scan in which a character simply states to know all art-forms.

so cap is a faster learner than bruce?

And Cap had an entire government that could bring the teachers to him, why does Bruce get a pass for learning multiple styles of martial as fast as he did?

Originally posted by namorsubby
fine then, DG, post your feats.......but, i warn you, i've seen them many times.....and i may have the order in which they're placed memorized.lol

so cap's a great commander......a leader in battle, not a better tactician. think about it? who do all these supremely over-powered DC characters run to when the whole universe is at stake and their laundry list of ridiculous powers can save them? batman.......and who saves the day? batman.

i doubt cap could learn anything faster than bruce......he's simply not as smart.

so he's stated so, but where's the proof?........if we went off of boast from characters.......galactus vs namor underwater would be spite.lol


Ok. Here's a couple(I'll show more once you've reciprocated)...

strength
Cap throws his commanding officer quite a ways with one arm(twice)
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/ca-22-14.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/ca-22-15.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/ca-22-16.jpg

Cap pulls a supply truck(with a busted axle) through the dessert
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/caDMR2pg03.jpg

Cap lifts a fallen tree over his head
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SecretDefenders07-03.jpg

Cap lifts a stone statue off the ground that’s bigger than he is while chained to it
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/CaptainAmericav305061.jpg

speed

Cap outruns bullets to their target and blocks them
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/cap%20speed%20bullet%20dodging/Avengersv369-RedZone05-TheGreatEsca.jpg

Cap runs at nearly 60 miles an hour for an extended stretch
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/cap%20speed/ca-01-008.jpg

And of course the truck with the busted axle and extended run are endurance feats as well.

And who do you think they make the commander in battle? The guy with the best tactics...

Well unless Bruce has matching feats, I guess Cap learns fighting faster.

It's a statement from Captain America, that's as good as a statement from Supes or George Washington...

see........now i have to go find scans........i don't have them in my handy dandy harddrive like you.lol

*sigh*, i'll be back........*walks off slumping shoulders* 😂

Originally posted by namorsubby
see........now i have to go find scans........i don't have them in my handy dandy harddrive like you.lol

*sigh*, i'll be back........*walks off slumping shoulders* 😂


Ok I'll be waiting...

Oh Yes! Another scan comparison between these two!!!!

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Oh Yes! Another scan comparison between these two!!!!
This is the first time it has ever happened, don't act like you're not excited.

Originally posted by Mindset
This is the first time it has ever happened, don't act like you're not excited.
you're so funny.........like you don't know that i have a million different scans for every occassion imaginable.lol.......have you ever visited the respect forum? 😆

anyway:

Strength:
1. batman lifts 1000lbs over his head:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat1000.jpg

2. Batman benches 600lbs of soil on a coffin door.......with a straight jacket on:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batripgrave1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batripgrave2.jpg

3.batman rips a huge metal duct......which he is tied to:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batduct.jpg

4.rips out prison bars.......with so much force looks as if they have withered.lol:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batbars_halloween.jpg

5.bends the barrel of a gun with one hand:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batbend.jpg

Speed:

1.moving in between bullets:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/year2_batbulletdodge.jpg

2.outmanuvers kid flash, twice, lol:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batimplusegrab.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batvstitans2.jpg

3.ducks mind-controlled superman.....again, seriously? lol:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batsuperduck.jpg

4.dodges a sniper bullet simply by hearing it......with his back turned(he also immediately reacts with a batarang, which hits the sniper a long distance away):
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batfreezesniper1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batfreezesniper2.jpg

5.blocks bullets......with his freakin hand:
http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/?action=view&current=batbulletblock.jpg

I couldn't even find the one where he dodges super-girl's heat vision

Cap wins.

RD. 1 goes to namorsubby.

Originally posted by Mindset
Cap wins.
i'm starting to get the impression that you don't like me very much.lol

I just think you're a despicable human being.

oh, well good then.......i thought you didn't like me.lol

😂

Originally posted by namorsubby
how? where did he learn all of these and when did he have the time? that makes no sense.......

that would be where the comics part comes into this.

silly me, how could i have forgotten that it was comic book characters we were discussing.

you sir, are a gentleman and a scholar

Originally posted by namorsubby
Strength:
1. batman lifts 1000lbs over his head:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat1000.jpg

Two things. First off, Batman's not lifting a 1,000 lbs, he's supporting it. Second, Batman's having a hard time with 100 lbs less than Cap BENCH PRESSES...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/multi%20image/CaptainAmerica402-ManandWolf01-04.jpg

Originally posted by namorsubby
2. Batman benches 600lbs of soil on a coffin door.......with a straight jacket on:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batripgrave1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batripgrave2.jpg

Again two things. First off Batman's not actually wearing the straitjacket(note his talking about how the straitjacket and then locks are "kindergarten". Two, he's expending quite a bit of effort to bench 500 lbs less than I just posted Cap doing.

Originally posted by namorsubby
3.batman rips a huge metal duct......which he is tied to:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batduct.jpg

Cap rips the grill off a tractor with ease(it looks like Bat's used his whole body to tear rip the air duck).
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/CaptainAmerica339-FalloftheMutantsT.jpg

Originally posted by namorsubby
4.rips out prison bars.......with so much force looks as if they have withered.lol:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batbars_halloween.jpg

I don't have a direct comparison for this one so I won't bother and instead just insert this one of Cap chunking an anchor with one hand...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/CaptainAmerica-Annual12-1993-TheBat.jpg

Originally posted by namorsubby
5.bends the barrel of a gun with one hand:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batbend.jpg

I've seen Cap do the same thing but can't seem to find the scan... BUT I think this feat equals/exceeds it...
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/CaptainAmerica231-Aftermath-03.jpg

And none of those feats is as impressive as the ones I already posted anyway. Throwing the grown man a ways with one arm, lifting the giant statue, tossing the tree trunk, pulling the truck with the busted axle, any of those most likely requires more strength than Bats shows in any of those scans.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Speed:

1.moving in between bullets:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/year2_batbulletdodge.jpg


You really think that's as impressive than outracing bullets? Cap's done the same from more sources coming from more directions...
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/cap%20speed%20bullet%20dodging/Avengersv305-AccusationMostFoul-020.jpg

What's more, MOST street level guys have similar feats to their credit. Hell Daredevil pulls that kind of thing all the time and has speed feats right on par with Bats) and do you know what he says about Cap's speed? That he(Cap) is faster...
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/cap%20speed/Daredevil_233-14.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/cap%20speed/Daredevil_233-15.jpg

One more thing, what issue is that from? Cause Bats is wielding a gun in the second panel and I'm pretty sure that mainstream Bats was supposed to have never done that until Final Crisis.

Originally posted by namorsubby
2.outmanuvers kid flash, twice, lol:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batimplusegrab.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batvstitans2.jpg

Do you consider those valid feats to use AGAINST Impulse? Cause if it's PIS for Impulse then it's PIS for Bats...

Originally posted by namorsubby
3.ducks mind-controlled superman.....again, seriously? lol:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batsuperduck.jpg

Again, do you consider that a valid feat to use AGAINST Superman?

Originally posted by namorsubby
4.dodges a sniper bullet simply by hearing it......with his back turned(he also immediately reacts with a batarang, which hits the sniper a long distance away):
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batfreezesniper1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batfreezesniper2.jpg

Ok what book is that from so I can check for context, because from the look of it the shooter was aiming for Freeze not Batman.

Originally posted by namorsubby
5.blocks bullets......with his freakin hand:
http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/?action=view&current=batbulletblock.jpg

Bat's wears armor and the fact that he had his hand up to protect the unarmored portion of his body isn't really the same as "blocking bullets" the way you're saying. Even if it was, it's still not as impressive as crossing the room to block them.

Like I said the two are close physically, it's just that Cap has the edge.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Two things. First off, Batman's not lifting a 1,000 lbs, he's supporting it. Second, Batman's having a hard time with 100 lbs less than Cap BENCH PRESSES...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/multi%20image/CaptainAmerica402-ManandWolf01-04.jpg

Again two things. First off Batman's not actually wearing the straitjacket(note his talking about how the straitjacket and then locks are "kindergarten". Two, he's expending quite a bit of effort to bench 500 lbs less than I just posted Cap doing.

Cap rips the grill off a tractor with ease(it looks like Bat's used his whole body to tear rip the air duck).
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/CaptainAmerica339-FalloftheMutantsT.jpg

I don't have a direct comparison for this one so I won't bother and instead just insert this one of Cap chunking an anchor with one hand...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/CaptainAmerica-Annual12-1993-TheBat.jpg

I've seen Cap do the same thing but can't seem to find the scan... BUT I think this feat equals/exceeds it...
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/CaptainAmerica231-Aftermath-03.jpg

And none of those feats is as impressive as the ones I already posted anyway. Throwing the grown man a ways with one arm, lifting the giant statue, tossing the tree trunk, pulling the truck with the busted axle, any of those most likely requires more strength than Bats shows in any of those scans.

You really think that's as impressive than outracing bullets? Cap's done the same from more sources coming from more directions...
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/cap%20speed%20bullet%20dodging/Avengersv305-AccusationMostFoul-020.jpg

What's more, MOST street level guys have similar feats to their credit. Hell Daredevil pulls that kind of thing all the time and has speed feats right on par with Bats) and do you know what he says about Cap's speed? That he(Cap) is faster...
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/cap%20speed/Daredevil_233-14.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/cap%20speed/Daredevil_233-15.jpg

One more thing, what issue is that from? Cause Bats is wielding a gun in the second panel and I'm pretty sure that mainstream Bats was supposed to have never done that until Final Crisis.

Do you consider those valid feats to use AGAINST Impulse? Cause if it's PIS for Impulse then it's PIS for Bats...

Again, do you consider that a valid feat to use AGAINST Superman?

Ok what book is that from so I can check for context, because from the look of it the shooter was aiming for Freeze not Batman.

Bat's wears armor and the fact that he had his hand up to protect the unarmored portion of his body isn't really the same as "blocking bullets" the way you're saying. Even if it was, it's still not as impressive as crossing the room to block them.

Like I said the two are close physically, it's just that Cap has the edge.

1. it's harder to hold weight over your head with you arms than to bench press weight.....you know that right?

you've really got to read the dialogue DG.......the guys says himself batman is holding the weight, not "supporting" it.........btw, how does that even make sense? the trick ceiling has fallen with the full force of it's weight......and now batman's holding it up, period.

2.did you read the arc? he was in a straightjacket when the black hand put him down there..........and his freakin muscles were dehydrated. he wasn't even half strength definitely after all that stuff he went through(poisoned, muscles dehydrated,etc).........you'd know if you read the arc.

3.not as impressive......that object is most defintiely heavier and larger than a tractor grill......and he used his bound arms to lift it.......how on earth did he use his whole body?

4.lol, seems like a very small anchor........again, not as impressive....bats is ripping iron bars, and there withering like they're lettuce.lol

5.2 hands, not one........also, was that futuristic looking gun even metal?

also, that statement below #5 suprised me..........you're seriously undermining his feats........which obviously don't compare to throwing a man with one hand.lol

6.cap isn't moving in-between any bullets even close to the way bats was..........grasping.....and this might not be more impressive than "outracing" bullets.......but i bet i know what is(hint, it's a lil down the line)

why mention dd? unless you want to start posting feats that prove he's faster(ie, there are none, because cap's feats are more impressive than his)........and yes, the feats are canon......bats has used guns in his canon appearances before(actually i think this is a recap of his early years where he did)

7.yes, because he's just an inexperienced kid.......but really, let's not start callin pis because those scans are far more impressive than any cap speed feat by far(are they not?)

8. see #7.lol

9.lol, you know batman's head was once exactly in the path between freeze's head and the bullet, right? so acknowledging that.....why would you say such a thing? the text was refering to the fact that batman wasn't fast enough to save freeze too........and btw, im pretty much sure that the last couple of scans puts the speed category firmly outta cap's reach.lol

10.so you're telling me you don't see the several bullets flying in several different.........you know what, i don't even need to argue speed feats anymore.lol

umm.......heavens no......in fact, now that we've done this, i'm convinced bruce has the edge.......i'll understand of course if you don't agree.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
RD. 1 goes to namorsubby.