Jesus Resurrection was physical.

Originally posted by docb77
That my friend all depends on whether the God of the Bible is real or imagined. 😉

In my opinion (if you were asking me), the god of the bible is imagined as you understand it. However, there are some glimpses of God in the bible.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
In my opinion (if you were asking me), the god of the bible is imagined as you understand it. However, there are some glimpses of God in the bible.

So that's the source of our disagreement. In the end our logic was different because our beliefs are different.

Originally posted by docb77
So that's the source of our disagreement. In the end our logic was different because our beliefs are different.

😎

Originally posted by peejayd
* flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God NOT because it is weak and tainted by sins... here's the reason...

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
But when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."
I Corinthians 15:50-54

* it is because the kingdom of God does NOT also accepts corruptible and mortality... and since our body is mortal and corruptible, it cannot inherit the kingdom of God...

* Jesus' body too, eventhough it was not tainted with any sin, cannot inherit the kingdom of God... if so, then Jesus' body will still die in heaven, because literally, it needs sustainance - food, water, etc... and eventually, the body will grow old, weak and die...

"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another ."
I Corinthians 15:40

* there are different bodies used in heaven and on earth... 😉

Peejayd, I responded to your post with a Part 1 and Part 2. My message length was too long for one post.

🙂

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I got to give it to you peejayd you do TRY to interpret Scripture. I STILL have a difficult time understanding what you write (not because you disagree with me) because of the grammatical errors: "Jesus did NOT [B]went to heaven...." You mean Jesus did not GO to heaven. Here is another grammatical mistake: "Jesus will be coming back in like manner He came up to heaven...." You mean WENT UP to heaven. So when I write that I have a difficult time understanding what you write PEOPLE should give me some credit and give me the benefit of the doubt that it has NOTHING to do with you disagreeing with me about an interpretation. [/B]

* the grammatical errors you've been talking about my post was only about verb tenses? wow, if you're an American and have English as a national language since birth, it's really shocking to know you have difficult time understanding my post provided that the errors are only verb tenses...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Before I began, Yes Peejayd I am VERY AWARE of these verses of Scripture:

Now, you wrote, [B]“again, i beg to disagree... Jesus did NOT went to heaven with physical body....” Peejayd, you do realize that the PHYSICAL body of Jesus died on a cross and was laid in a tomb? You do understand this don’t you? [/B]

* yes, Jesus' physical body that died on the cross was laid in a tomb and was resurrected...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Again, Peejayd, this is a PHYSICAL, TANGIBLE, HUMAN BODY that was laid in the tomb. I will admit that when Jesus rose from the dead that He rose with an INCORRUPTIBLE, IMMORTAL body (a body devoid of sin and death).

* correct...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
But Jesus’ body was STILL, a PHYSICAL BODY. Do you know what that means? It means that Jesus could contact this physical world with His body. In other words Jesus could touch physical things and be touched by other people. Jesus could eat physical food and physically walk on land.

* and this is also NOT in accordance with the Bible...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
However, Jesus’ physical body was NO LONGER subject to the law of sin and death (which means that Jesus’ physical body CANNOT ever die or feel pain. In fact, Jesus physical body is immortal and incorruptible. Some Christians refer to this new body as a GLORIFIED body. Glory to God! No flesh and BLOOD cannot inherit the Kingdom of God but flesh and GLORY can.

* there is no way you can find a verse in the Bible that allows FLESH to inherit the kingdom of God...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Jesus no longer has human blood flowing through his veins. Jesus body courses with the life and glory of Almighty God the Father. One day all believers/disciples/followers/true christians will have a body like Jesus: free from sin (i.e., CORRUPTION) and death (i.e., we will have IMMORTAL bodies). Don't believe me? Read this:

* if Jesus' body had no longer human blood flowing through his veins, then the body is NOT physical... if so, the physical body will eventually die...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Jesus told one of His disciples (he’s called doubting Thomas) to reach his finger there and, look at his hands (for the print of the nails) and for him to reach his hand there and put it into Jesus’ side (where the soldier pierced Jesus’ side with a spear). How could Thomas reach his finger and hand onto a body that did not have corporeality (i.e., tangibility)? The fact the Jesus encouraged doubting Thomas to reach his finger into the print where the nails had been and into Jesus’ spear-pierced side is BECAUSE Jesus has a PHYSICAL BODY.

* you just missed the point here... there is no question that Saint Thomas really did touched Jesus' physical body, but that does NOT mean that the physical body went up to heaven...

* how did Saint Thomas be able to touch Jesus' body? because it was a physical, tangible body, and Jesus was still here on earth then... read again I Corinthians 15:50...

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."
I Corinthians 15:50

* where would the flesh and blood not be allowed? in the kingdom of God in heaven... Saint Thomas had touched Jesus' body while He was still here on earth... you just missed the very big gap...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Peejayd, do you ever wonder WHERE the PHYSICAL BODY of Jesus went?

* it went nowhere...

"Behold, I tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."
I Corinthians 15:51-53

* it was changed from mortal to immortality, from corruptible to incorruption... from physical to spirit...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The same PHYSICAL BODY of Jesus Christ that was beaten, spit on, tortured, and crucified on the cross was laid in a nearby tomb. After three days and three nights Jesus PHYSICAL BODY was RAISED FROM THE DEAD. This is why the PHYSICAL BODY OF JESUS was nowhere to be found when Mary went to the tomb looking for Jesus. Jesus admonished Mary not to CLING to Him....How could Mary cling to a body that had no corporeality or tangibility? Jesus body was real, but it is now in a GLORIFIED state that can appear and disappear. But is still capable of being touched or contacting this three-dimensional world. One day we will have a body like Jesus with these same faculties. You just read it in 1 Corinthians 50-58.

* yes, Mary Magdalene could cling to Jesus' physical body that was resurrected, no problem about that... just take note of the point that Jesus was still on earth... flesh and blood are not allowed in heaven, but it is allowed here on earth...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Finally, Jesus resurrection was VERY PHYSICAL. So physical in fact that after He rose from the dead He ate broiled fish and honey comb with His disciples on one occasion, and fish (some that the disciples had just caught) and bread on another.

* true...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I believe that Jesus ate the broiled fish and honeycomb TO PROVE OR EVINCE OR SHOW His disciples that He had PHYSICALLY RISEN FROM THE DEAD, not spiritually.

* i agree Jesus' resurrection from the dead was indeed physical... 😉

Originally posted by peejayd
* the grammatical errors you've been talking about my post was only about verb tenses? wow, if you're an American and have English as a national language since birth, it's really shocking to know you have difficult time understanding my post provided that the errors are only verb tenses...

* yes, Jesus' physical body that died on the cross was laid in a tomb and was resurrected...

* correct...

* and this is also NOT in accordance with the Bible...

* there is no way you can find a verse in the Bible that allows FLESH to inherit the kingdom of God...

* if Jesus' body had no longer human blood flowing through his veins, then the body is NOT physical... if so, the physical body will eventually die...

* you just missed the point here... there is no question that Saint Thomas really did touched Jesus' physical body, but that does NOT mean that the physical body went up to heaven...

* how did Saint Thomas be able to touch Jesus' body? because it was a physical, tangible body, and Jesus was still here on earth then... read again I Corinthians 15:50...

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."
I Corinthians 15:50

* where would the flesh and blood not be allowed? in the kingdom of God in heaven... Saint Thomas had touched Jesus' body while He was still here on earth... you just missed the very big gap...

* it went nowhere...

"Behold, I tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."
I Corinthians 15:51-53

* it was changed from mortal to immortality, from corruptible to incorruption... from physical to spirit...

* yes, Mary Magdalene could cling to Jesus' physical body that was resurrected, no problem about that... just take note of the point that Jesus was still on earth... flesh and blood are not allowed in heaven, but it is allowed here on earth...

* true...

* i agree Jesus' resurrection from the dead was indeed physical... 😉

Peejayd, you admit that Jesus rose from the dead with a physical body, and in the next breath as it were you DENY that Jesus had a PHYSICAL BODY when He ascended to Heaven.

And I quote you friend Peejayd,

"yes, Jesus' physical body that died on the cross was laid in a tomb and was resurrected ..."

You just admitted that Jesus' PHYSICAL BODY WAS RESURRECTED. Now on to your next quote.

" i agree Jesus' resurrection from the dead was indeed physical ..."

Again, you concede that Jesus' resurrected body was PHYSICAL.

Finally, you say, "yes, Mary Magdalene could cling to Jesus' physical body that was resurrected , no problem about that... just take note of the point that Jesus was still on earth... flesh and blood are not allowed in heaven, but it is allowed here on earth..."

Now, lets RIGHTLY divide the Word of Truth. We both agree at least that Jesus' PHYSICAL BODY was raised from the dead, seen by many witnessess, touched, etc. Now, here is where we DO NOT agree. You said that Jesus' physical body rose from the dead BUT His physical body DID NOT ascend into Heaven. Correct? Is that what you assert? Well what happened then? Did Jesus physical body all of of sudden lose its coroporeality (i.e., physical materiality)? This does not square with the Word of God. Jesus body now is the same body that rose from the dead approximately 2,000 years ago. It is simply devoid of sin and no longer subject to death. Jesus' body is incorruptible (free from every iota of sin and incapable of having sin's presence) and immortal (death-free; Jesus body will exist forever, it is not even capable of death anymore). But...although Jesus' body is incorruptible and immortal there is no indication anywhere in Scripture that His body CEASED to have tangibility. You see, Peejayd, spiritual things (people, animals, trees, plants, mansions, rivers, streams, mountains, grass, buildings and other things/objects in Heaven have SUBSTANCE or TANGIBILITY. People in Heaven are able to walk on the ground in Paradise, which is part of Heaven. People and animals are able to contact Heaven in a tangible way. For example, people don't walk through walls (although they can) but, they don't, they use doors. People can sit down on furniture in their respective homes. Why? How? Read the fourth chapter of the book of Revelation, God the Father, Himself is pictured SEATED on His throne. The apostle John records that He saw the Lord God Almighty SEATED on His throne. In the gospel of John, chapter 4 verse 24, Jesus said that God (the Father) is a Spirit. It is simple: their is a physical world (the world that we live in) and their is a spiritual world, where angels, satan, demons, unsaved people, Hell, saved people, Heaven, God the Father, God the Son Jesus, and God the Holy Spirit live (or exist). But their world as just as tangible as ours is. Just as the physical world consists of physical substance, the spirtual world consists of SPIRITUAL substance, but it is STILL substance nonetheless. It is just a different KIND OR TYPE of substance. Nevertheless, it is no less solid or tangible.

Now let's revisit this Scripture that you disagreed with me on.

Acts 1:9-12
9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched , He was taken up , and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up , behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”.”

Peejayd, pay CLOSE attention to this verses. This SAME JESUS (not a spiritual Jesus) who was raised from the dead with a PHYSCIAL, FLESH, AND BONE (not flesh and blood) body WAS TAKEN UP.

I quote you again, "again, i beg to disagree... Jesus did NOT went to heaven with physical body ...

I quote you again,
"Who also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye looking into heaven? this Jesus, who was received up from you into heaven shall so come in like manner as ye beheld him going into heaven."

In this quote you explain why you underlined the phrase in like manner.

"the angel did NOT talk about what Jesus look like or if He had a physical body but the manner of His ascension; Jesus will be coming back in like manner He came up to heaven..."

Why would the angel talk about what Jesus looked (not look) like or whether Jesus had a physical body? Peejayd, buddy, go back up to verse 11 of Acts chapter 1. It reads, "...this SAME Jesus..." What same Jesus? The SAME Jesus that rose from the dead with a PHYSICAL BODY. You know, let's not forget that you DID admit that Jesus rose from the dead with a physical body. There was absolutely, positvely no reason whatsoever to describe what Jesus looked like as He ascended to Heaven. They (those watching Jesus ascend, angels included) all knew what Jesus looked like before, during, and after His ascension. Jesus body DID NOT suddenly transform from a PHYSICAL, FLESH AND BONE, body to a spiritual body. Those watching the Lord Jesus ascend to Heaven heard everything that Jesus said (Acts 1:9), then continued to watch Jesus (this same Jesus not a different Jesus or a spiritual Jesus, but THIS SAME JESUS, you know, the One with the PHYSICAL BODY) ascend up, up, up, into the air until a cloud (probably the Shekinah glory cloud that radiated with the glory, majesty, and presence of God the Father: Scripture reference, 1 Kings 8:10-12). Now, when the angels (the two men standing by them in white apparel) stated, "...This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into Heaven will come IN LIKE MANNER as you saw Him go into Heaven." You are correct that they (the angels) are referring to Jesus' ascension. But (there's always a but) Jesus had a physical body the entire 40 or so days that He remained on earth after He rose from the dead. Why all of a sudden do you believe that Jesus body abruptly changed into a spiritual one as He ascended to Heaven? It is not plausible, consistent with, or supported by the Bible. This same Jesus who was buffeted, spit on, beaten, scourged with a cat-o-nine tails, tortured, crucified, embalmed, buried, and raised from the dead, seen by upwards of 500 of people (all physically by the way), suddenly turned into a spirit body and went back to Heaven according to you? I- don't-think-so. This does not accord with Scripture. This same Jesus that went through all of the preceding is the same Jesus that ascended to Heaven right before His disciples very eyes so that they could be witnessess to this. The angels just wanted us to know that just as Jesus went BACK to Heaven physically, so shall He return to earth PHYSICALLY.

I will respond to these last quotes of yours in another post I have nearly exhausted this one.

"here's another proof why Jesus did NOT went to heaven with physical body..."

"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another ."
I Corinthians 15:40

Originally posted by peejayd

* Jesus' body too, eventhough it was not tainted with any sin, cannot inherit the kingdom of God... if so, then Jesus' body will still die in heaven, because literally, it needs sustainance - food, water, etc... and eventually, the body will grow old, weak and die...

"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another ."
I Corinthians 15:40

* there are different bodies used in heaven and on earth... 😉

Let me first address the first quote.

"Jesus' body too, eventhough it was not tainted with any sin, cannot inherit the kingdom of God... if so, then Jesus' body will still die in heaven, because literally, it needs sustainance - food, water, etc... and eventually, the body will grow old, weak and die..."

If so, then Jesus' body will still die...? The Bible states that the wages of sin is death. You just said that Jesus' body was NOT tainted with sin. Since (not if) Jesus' body is NOT tainted with sin then it CANNOT be subject to death. But yet you claim that Jesus' body would still die in Heaven. I am assuming that you mean if Jesus' body was PHYSICAL correct? Peejayd, there is NO DEATH in Heaven, NONE at all, not even a vestige of it. Why? There is NO SIN in Heaven, and there are no sinners in Heaven. Heaven is occupied or better yet TEEMING with saved folk. Furthermore, the FORMER things have passed away. Death, sorrow, crying, pain constitute FORMER things (please read Revelation 21:4). God the Father's will is being done in Heaven. His will is not being done on earth fully as it is being done in Heaven. But praise God, one day God's will on earth will be done just as it is being done in Heaven. That's why Jesus said to pray,

"Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven (Matthew 6:9-10).

Back to the point. Jesus was raised with an incorruptible and immortal body anyway so why can't it inherit the Kingdom of God?

Second quote,

"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another ."
I Corinthians 15:40

Peejayd, buddy ole pal, bro-ham...I hate to break it to you this way but this verse of Scripture ain't (excuse me IS not) talking about physical, human bodies, like the one Jesus has. Go back up to verse 39 then continue reading up to verse 41 to get the actual context for verse 40. Verse 39 initiates the exposition with the phrase, "All flesh is not the same flesh..." You see, Peejayd, there is a flesh of men (or people), another of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. Let me ask you something Peejayd: is Paul done expounding? No, he isn't. The apostle Paul (yes Paul the apostle not heretic in case Debbijoe is reading this post) goes on to include celestial bodies. Do you know what a celestial body is Peejayd? It is not a human, spiritual body that you think that Jesus has. This is not even talking about human bodies (Paul already mentioned those in the previous verse [i.e., verse 39]). Just what is Paul talking about? Glad you asked! Paul is talking about the heavenly bodies occupying what we call "outer space." You know, stars, the sun, the planets. Celestial means heavenly Merriam-Webster's online dictionary defines the word celestial as,

1 : of, relating to, or suggesting heaven or divinity <celestial beings>
2 : of or relating to the sky or visible heavens <the sun, moon, and stars are celestial bodies> 3 a : ETHEREAL, OTHERWORLDLY <celestial music> b : OLYMPIAN, SUPREME
4 capitalized [Celestial Empire, old name for China] : of or relating to China or the Chinese

I believe that the second defintion describes what Paul is talking about in verse 40 because he immediately starts citing examples in the very next verse. Paul talks about the sun, moon, and stars, and these are celestial bodies as confirmed by Merriam-Webster's online dictionary. So verse 40 is not talking about Jesus' spiritual body.

Your final quote:

"there are different bodies used in heaven and on earth... 😉 "[/B][/QUOTE]

True, there are different bodies used in Heaven and on earth. The apostle Paul talks about this in 2 Corinthians 5:1-4. But, none of the people in Heaven have the same body that Jesus has. You see Jesus went to Heaven in His glorifed, incorruptible, immortal body. No other believer has done this. You see, there is coming a day when the dead in Christ (those who are saved but who have died and are in Heaven right now) and those who are still alive when Jesus returns (they are referred to as those who are "alive and remain"😉 will receive this glorified, incorruptible, immortal body. Read 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 for they coincide.

Oh, incidentally, I am very aware of what 1 Corinthians 15:44 states.

I rest my case with these final verses of God's Holy Word:

Luke 24:36-43
36 Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “Peace to you.” 37 But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit. 38 And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.” 40 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here ?” 42 So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb . 43 And He took it and ate in their presence .

The Lord Jesus wanted to demonstate or prove to His disciples that He was not a spirit (or ghost) but a living, breathing, PHYSICAL BODY capable of eating PHYSICAL FOOD. It was with this body that Jesus ascended to Heaven: a glorified, incorruptible, immortal body!

🙂 💃 😄 😎 😉

Originally posted by docb77
The tree could have served some purpose other than temptation. It could have been good for the animals, but not the humans. The Genesis account simply doesn't give enough information to really judge God.

Why put something that is NOT good for humans in a Garden that was meant to be dominated by humans ?

And while we are on the subject of Adam and Eve, please answer me this:

1) If Adam and Eve only had two children, Cain and Abel, then how the hell did the rest of the human race come about ?

2) If Cain and Abel had sisters from Adam and Eve, and then spawned the human race that way, that means that the human race was born of Incest.

But isn't that sinful according to God ? How would God create the human race to be born of Incest, when he strictly forbids it ?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Why put something that is NOT good for humans in a Garden that was meant to be dominated by humans ?

And while we are on the subject of Adam and Eve, please answer me this:

1) If Adam and Eve only had two children, Cain and Abel, then how the hell did the rest of the human race come about ?

2) If Cain and Abel had sisters from Adam and Eve, and then spawned the human race that way, that means that the human race was born of Incest.

But isn't that sinful according to God ? How would God create the human race to be born of Incest, when he strictly forbids it ?

I always saw Adam and Eve as referring the first group of home sapiens... and merely being a sort of metaphor. Either that or were all clones (rib thing).

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Why put something that is NOT good for humans in a Garden that was meant to be dominated by humans ?

Dominated probably isn't the right word. Stewarded perhaps. In any event, There were things besides people there, each with its own needs. Cat food isn't for people, but it is there in any home that has a cat.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
And while we are on the subject of Adam and Eve, please answer me this:

1) If Adam and Eve only had two children, Cain and Abel, then how the hell did the rest of the human race come about ?

2) If Cain and Abel had sisters from Adam and Eve, and then spawned the human race that way, that means that the human race was born of Incest.

But isn't that sinful according to God ? How would God create the human race to be born of Incest, when he strictly forbids it ?

1 - I think that they actually had many more children. The bible only mentions 3 sons because those particular children were integral to a morality story.

2 - I've heard different theories on this one:

- Adam and eve were genetically perfect. They didn't have the mutations and recessive genes that result in defects in normal inbreeding, this would allow for a generation or two where the prohibition against incest would be unnecessary.

- Adam and eve were the first "homo sapiens" - The first people that God put spirits into. There were other "people" around who were genetically similar enough for the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve to reproduce, with their children having the traits that made Adam and Eve "human". In other words, pre-Adamic humans were human in form, but post-Adamic humans were human in spirit as well.

There could be other theories, but those are the main ones I've heard put forward.

Originally posted by docb77
Dominated probably isn't the right word. Stewarded perhaps. In any event, There were things besides people there, each with its own needs. Cat food isn't for people, but it is there in any home that has a cat.

So If I eat cat food, should my future generation be damned to Hell ? 🙄

Should my parents cast me away from home and onto the street because I tried cat food ?

Originally posted by docb77
1 - I think that they actually had many more children. The bible only mentions 3 sons because those particular children were integral to a morality story.

2 - I've heard different theories on this one:

- Adam and eve were genetically perfect. They didn't have the mutations and recessive genes that result in defects in normal inbreeding, this would allow for a generation or two where the prohibition against incest would be unnecessary.

- Adam and eve were the first "homo sapiens" - The first people that God put spirits into. There were other "people" around who were genetically similar enough for the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve to reproduce, with their children having the traits that made Adam and Eve "human". In other words, pre-Adamic humans were human in form, but post-Adamic humans were human in spirit as well.

There could be other theories, but those are the main ones I've heard put forward.

Interesting.....but highly unconvincing.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
So If I eat cat food, should my future generation be damned to Hell ? 🙄

Should my parents cast me away from home and onto the street because I tried cat food ?

See, here you're committing a logical fallacy called "running with the analogy". You're taking the analogy outside the scope for which it was intended.

Perhaps I should have used detergents and cleaning supplies as an example. Not good for people, but they do have a use in the house. Eat them and you're likely to get sent to the hospital.

Note the language God used. He didn't say, "Don't eat those or I will kill you". He said, "In the day you eat thereof you shall surely die"

Is a parent bad for telling his kid not to drink the pine-sol?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Interesting.....but highly unconvincing.

Wasn't meant to be convincing. The only thing anyone can do regarding that time period as regarding individuals is speculate. That's all either theory is - speculation.

Originally posted by docb77
See, here you're committing a logical fallacy called "running with the analogy". You're taking the analogy outside the scope for which it was intended.

I'm very ANAL....i ANALize things a lot. 😆

Originally posted by docb77
Perhaps I should have used detergents and cleaning supplies as an example. Not good for people, but they do have a use in the house. Eat them and you're likely to get sent to the hospital.

You are unknowingly comparing A Hospital to Hell...not a great analogy. Your anology in no way supports your argument. 👇

Originally posted by docb77
Note the language God used. He didn't say, "Don't eat those or I will kill you". He said, "In the day you eat thereof you shall surely die"

Then why put something there that could kill them?

Originally posted by docb77
Is a parent bad for telling his kid not to drink the pine-sol?

Not at all. But it would be bad parenting to kick your children out of the house for all eternity because they drank the pine sol. It'd be even worse to send your children to Hell for all eternity because they drank the pinesol.

Should the punishment exceed the initial danger ?

And why are we comparing an APPLE to pine sol ? 😆
Last I checked, apples were very healthy. ✅

Originally posted by docb77
Wasn't meant to be convincing. The only thing anyone can do regarding that time period as regarding individuals is speculate. That's all either theory is - speculation.

A Hypothesis is speculation

A Theorty is a hypothesis which is generally accepted due to overwhelming amounts of evidense, but still lacking in universal proof.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I'm very ANAL....i ANALize things a lot. 😆

You are unknowingly comparing A Hospital to Hell...not a great analogy. Your anology in no way supports your argument. 👇

Then why put something there that could kill them?

Not at all. But it would be bad parenting to kick your children out of the house for all eternity because they drank the pine sol. It'd be even worse to send your children to Hell for all eternity because they drank the pinesol.

Should the punishment exceed the initial danger ?

And why are we comparing an APPLE to pine sol ? 😆
Last I checked, apples were very healthy. ✅

A Hypothesis is speculation

A Theorty is a hypothesis which is generally accepted due to overwhelming amounts of evidense, but still lacking in universal proof.

- Maybe Hell is more like a hospital than you're willing to admit.

- Yes, Apples are healthy. Not all fruit is. The wording in the Bible never specified what the fruit was.

-I wasn't speaking of a scientific theory. Theory as used in the general lexicon is often synonymous with idea.

Originally posted by docb77
- Maybe Hell is more like a hospital than you're willing to admit.

You mean Eternal Torture is actually a treatment for spiritual immorality ? WOW....that's a hospital I WANNA ATTEND !

🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄

Originally posted by docb77
- - Yes, Apples are healthy. Not all fruit is. The wording in the Bible never specified what the fruit was.

So there's a type of fruit that damns your future generations to an afterlife of eternal torture ? 😱

Originally posted by docb77
- -I wasn't speaking of a scientific theory. Theory as used in the general lexicon is often synonymous with idea.

I think the Bible is just a theory 🙂

Here Urizen, maybe this will help you understand my position.

Doctrine and Covenants 19:6-12

6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.
7 Again, it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name’s glory.
8 Wherefore, I will explain unto you this mystery, for it is meet unto you to know even as mine apostles.
9 I speak unto you that are chosen in this thing, even as one, that you may enter into my rest.
10 For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore—
11 Eternal punishment is God’s punishment.
12 Endless punishment is God’s punishment.

My position is that the torment will eventually end. Just like when someone gets sick, the torment of the ravages of that illness eventually end.

Originally posted by docb77
Here Urizen, maybe this will help you understand my position.

Doctrine and Covenants 19:6-12

6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.
7 Again, it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name’s glory.
8 Wherefore, I will explain unto you this mystery, for it is meet unto you to know even as mine apostles.
9 I speak unto you that are chosen in this thing, even as one, that you may enter into my rest.
10 For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore—
11 Eternal punishment is God’s punishment.
12 Endless punishment is God’s punishment.

My position is that the torment will eventually end. Just like when someone gets sick, the torment of the ravages of that illness eventually end.

Thanks for the input 👆

However, check this out:

I love my mother very much. I love her probably more than the rest of my family....honestly. She is the Greatest mother I can imagine one being...

However...

If she were to send me to a place of eternal and excruciation torment...for EVEN ONE MINUTE....

I would no longer consider her my mother, and my love and respect for her would fade.....

Does this reaction and analogy make ANY sense to you ?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Thanks for the input 👆

However, check this out:

I love my mother very much. I love her probably more than the rest of my family....honestly. She is the Greatest mother I can imagine one being...

However...

If she were to send me to a place of eternal and excruciation torment...for EVEN ONE MINUTE....

I would no longer consider her my mother, and my love and respect for her would fade.....

Does this reaction and analogy make ANY sense to you ?

Is punishment wrong in the rearing of children?

Originally posted by Regret
Is punishment wrong in the rearing of children?

Stop trying to dogde the actuality of my points.

Spanking your children is NO WHERE comparable to eternal torment, or EVEN limitted torment. What an IDIOTIC and DESPERATE not to mention LAST RESORT argument....

If my mother sent me to a realm of intense torment, i would no longer consider her my mother.

Likewise, if God sent me to a place of excruciating torture, simply cuz I was bisexual, I'd hate him...and I would NEVER want to be close to a cruel being like that.

Dude, ur so simple...when i target your points, I atleast have the DECENCY to answer your ACTUAL argument, rather than cheat my way out of it by summarizing your points into a simple and irrelevant analogy.

If you are going to argue against my points, I'd ask you to TARGET and ATTACK my ACTUAL points, and not just DANCE around my questions.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Peejayd, you admit that Jesus rose from the dead with a physical body, and in the next breath as it were you DENY that Jesus had a PHYSICAL BODY when He ascended to Heaven.

You just admitted that Jesus' PHYSICAL BODY WAS RESURRECTED. Now on to your next quote.

Again, you concede that Jesus' resurrected body was PHYSICAL.

Finally, you say, [B]"yes, Mary Magdalene could cling to Jesus' physical body that was resurrected , no problem about that... just take note of the point that Jesus was still on earth... flesh and blood are not allowed in heaven, but it is allowed here on earth..." [/B]

* yes, i did said that... and it is in accordance with the Bible...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Now, lets RIGHTLY divide the Word of Truth. We both agree at least that Jesus' PHYSICAL BODY was raised from the dead, seen by many witnessess, touched, etc. Now, here is where we DO NOT agree. You said that Jesus' physical body rose from the dead BUT His physical body DID NOT ascend into Heaven. Correct? Is that what you assert?

* yes...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Well what happened then? Did Jesus physical body all of of sudden lose its coroporeality (i.e., physical materiality)? This does not square with the Word of God. Jesus body now is the same body that rose from the dead approximately 2,000 years ago. It is simply devoid of sin and no longer subject to death. Jesus' body is incorruptible (free from every iota of sin and incapable of having sin's presence) and immortal (death-free; Jesus body will exist forever, it is not even capable of death anymore). But...although Jesus' body is incorruptible and immortal there is no indication anywhere in Scripture that His body CEASED to have tangibility. You see, Peejayd, spiritual things (people, animals, trees, plants, mansions, rivers, streams, mountains, grass, buildings and other things/objects in Heaven have SUBSTANCE or TANGIBILITY. People in Heaven are able to walk on the ground in Paradise, which is part of Heaven. People and animals are able to contact Heaven in a tangible way. For example, people don't walk through walls (although they can) but, they don't, they use doors. People can sit down on furniture in their respective homes. Why? How? Read the fourth chapter of the book of Revelation, God the Father, Himself is pictured SEATED on His throne. The apostle John records that He saw the Lord God Almighty SEATED on His throne. In the gospel of John, chapter 4 verse 24, Jesus said that God (the Father) is a Spirit. It is simple: their is a physical world (the world that we live in) and their is a spiritual world, where angels, satan, demons, unsaved people, Hell, saved people, Heaven, God the Father, God the Son Jesus, and God the Holy Spirit live (or exist). But their world as just as tangible as ours is. Just as the physical world consists of physical substance, the spirtual world consists of SPIRITUAL substance, but it is STILL substance nonetheless. It is just a different KIND OR TYPE of substance. Nevertheless, it is no less solid or tangible.

* if the spiritual world, according to you, consists of spiritual substance, then physical substances are NOT present there...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Now let's revisit this Scripture that you disagreed with me on.

Peejayd, pay CLOSE attention to this verses. This SAME JESUS (not a spiritual Jesus) who was raised from the dead with a PHYSCIAL, FLESH, AND BONE (not flesh and blood) body WAS TAKEN UP.

In this quote you explain why you underlined the phrase in like manner.

* let's see other translations...

"Who also said, Men, Galileans, why do you stand looking up to the heaven? This Jesus, the One being taken from you into the heaven, will come in the way you saw Him going into the heaven."
Literal Translation

"Men of Galilee," they said,"why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."
New International Version

"And said, " Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven."
Revised Standard Version

"Who also said, 'Men, Galileans, why do ye stand gazing into the heaven? this Jesus who was received up from you into the heaven, shall so come in what manner ye saw him going on to the heaven."
Young's Literal Translation

"Who also said: Ye men of Galilee, why stand you looking up to heaven? This Jesus who is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come as you have seen him going into heaven."
Douay-Rheims Version

"Who also said, Men of Galilee, why do ye stand looking into heaven? This Jesus who has been taken up from you into heaven, shall thus come in the manner in which ye have beheld him going into heaven."
Darby Bible

"And said," Galileans, why are you standing there looking up at the sky? This Jesus, who was taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way that you saw him go to heaven."
Good News Bible

"They said, "Why are you men from Galilee standing here and looking up into the sky? Jesus has been taken to heaven. But he will come back in the same way that you have seen him go."
Contemporary English Version

* as you can see, mr.jesusisalive, the Bible tells us that Jesus did NOT ascend to heaven with physical body... the angel had said that Jesus will come back in the same manner as He went up to heaven... what the angel was saying was the manner of ascension and NOT the physical body of Jesus...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
If so, then Jesus' body will still die...? The Bible states that the wages of sin is death. You just said that Jesus' body was NOT tainted with sin. Since (not if) Jesus' body is NOT tainted with sin then it CANNOT be subject to death. But yet you claim that Jesus' body would still die in Heaven.

* haven't you read the Scriptures, my friend? even if the physical body is NOT tainted with sins, it is still not allowed in heaven... physical body is flesh and blood and bones, it is mortal and corruptible... and so long as the physical body is flesh and blood and bones, mortal and corruptible, it CANNOT enter the kindom of God in heaven...

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."
I Corinthians 15:50-53

* according to Saint Paul, "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption" (I Corinthians 15:50), so what should occur for anyone to enter the kingdom of heaven? "we shall be changed" (I Corinthians 15:52), and what will be the changes? "this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality" (I Corinthians 15:53)... you see, it is very clear, my friend, that for us to enter the kingdom of heaven, we should be changed from physical to spirit because the statement is absolute, "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption" (I Corinthians 15:50)... 😉