Jesus Resurrection was physical.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I am assuming that you mean if Jesus' body was PHYSICAL correct? Peejayd, there is NO DEATH in Heaven, NONE at all, not even a vestige of it. Why? There is NO SIN in Heaven, and there are no sinners in Heaven. Heaven is occupied or better yet TEEMING with saved folk. Furthermore, the FORMER things have passed away. Death, sorrow, crying, pain constitute FORMER things (please read Revelation 21:4). God the Father's will is being done in Heaven. His will is not being done on earth fully as it is being done in Heaven.

* there is no death in heaven because corruption is not allowed in heaven (I Corinthians 15:50)... that's why we should all be changed, because if the physical body can enter the kingdom in heaven, what's the point of changing corruptible to incorruption in the first place?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Peejayd, buddy ole pal, bro-ham...I hate to break it to you this way but this verse of Scripture ain't (excuse me IS not) talking about physical, human bodies, like the one Jesus has. Go back up to verse 39 then continue reading up to verse 41 to get the actual context for verse 40. Verse 39 initiates the exposition with the phrase, [B]"All flesh is not the same flesh..." You see, Peejayd, there is a flesh of men (or people), another of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. Let me ask you something Peejayd: is Paul done expounding? No, he isn't. The apostle Paul (yes Paul the apostle not heretic in case Debbijoe is reading this post) goes on to include celestial bodies. Do you know what a celestial body is Peejayd? It is not a human, spiritual body that you think that Jesus has. This is not even talking about human bodies (Paul already mentioned those in the previous verse [i.e., verse 39]). Just what is Paul talking about? Glad you asked! Paul is talking about the heavenly bodies occupying what we call "outer space." You know, stars, the sun, the planets.

I believe that the second defintion describes what Paul is talking about in verse 40 because he immediately starts citing examples in the very next verse. Paul talks about the sun, moon, and stars, and these are celestial bodies as confirmed by Merriam-Webster's online dictionary. So verse 40 is not talking about Jesus' spiritual body. [/B]

* let us read the context...

"All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fishes.
There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory."
I Corinthians 15:39-41

* verse 39 is about different kinds of flesh while verse 40 is about the two kinds of bodies: one is heavenly (celestial) and one is earthly (terrestrial)... for better understanding, let us see another translation...

"And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies. But the glory of the heavenly is truly different, and that of the earthly different;"
Literal Translation

"And there are bodies of heaven and bodies of earth, but the glory of the one is different from that of the other."
Bible in Basic English

"There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another."
New International Version

"And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but one is the glory of the heavenly, and another that of the earthly;"
Young's Literal Translation

"And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies: but different is the glory of the heavenly, different that of the earthly:"
Darby Bible

"And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; the beauty that belongs to heavenly bodies is different from the beauty that belongs to earthly bodies."
Good News Bible

* see? now to prove to you that bodies used in heaven is different from what we use now on earth, let us read this...

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body."
I Corinthians 15:44

* there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
True, there are different bodies used in Heaven and on earth. The apostle Paul talks about this in 2 Corinthians 5:1-4. But, none of the people in Heaven have the same body that Jesus has. You see Jesus went to Heaven in His glorifed, incorruptible, immortal body. No other believer has done this. You see, there is coming a day when the dead in Christ (those who are saved but who have died and are in Heaven right now) and those who are still alive when Jesus returns (they are referred to as those who are "alive and remain"😉 will receive this glorified, incorruptible, immortal body. Read 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 for they coincide.

Oh, incidentally, I am very aware of what 1 Corinthians 15:44 states.

* if you are aware of I Corinthians 15:44, then you should know the difference of the body used in heaven and the body used on earth... plus...

"So also it has been written, The first man, Adam, became a living soul; the last Adam a life-giving Spirit."
I Corinthians 15:45
Literal Translation

"So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit."
The American Standard Version

"Thus also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul; the last Adam a quickening spirit."
Darby Bible

* Christ being the "Last Adam" is said to be a life-giving spirit... which blatantly opposes your belief that Jesus came up to heaven with a physical body... there is no more flesh, blood and bones but a life-giving spirit...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I rest my case with these final verses of God's Holy Word:

The Lord Jesus wanted to demonstate or prove to His disciples that He was not a spirit (or ghost) but a living, breathing, PHYSICAL BODY capable of eating PHYSICAL FOOD. It was with this body that Jesus ascended to Heaven: a glorified, incorruptible, immortal body!

🙂 💃 😄 😎 😉

* Jesus resurrected with a physical body, no problem... but when He came to heaven, the physical body is no more but was put on incorruption... the physical was changed into a spirit (I Corinthians 15:45)...

"Wherefore we henceforth know no man after the flesh: even though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now we know him so no more."
II Corinthians 5:16

* Christ is flesh no more...

"Now the Lord is the Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."
II Corinthians 3:17

* Christ now is a spirit... no physical body... 😉

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Stop trying to dogde the actuality of my points.

Spanking your children is NO WHERE comparable to eternal torment, or EVEN limitted torment. What an IDIOTIC and DESPERATE not to mention LAST RESORT argument....

If my mother sent me to a realm of intense torment, i would no longer consider her my mother.

Likewise, if God sent me to a place of excruciating torture, simply cuz I was bisexual, I'd hate him...and I would NEVER want to be close to a cruel being like that.

Dude, ur so simple...when i target your points, I atleast have the DECENCY to answer your ACTUAL argument, rather than cheat my way out of it by summarizing your points into a simple and irrelevant analogy.

If you are going to argue against my points, I'd ask you to TARGET and ATTACK my ACTUAL points, and not just DANCE around my questions.

I think the problem is that you aren't accepting that Mormons don't have the same system of beliefs as far as purpose of life, afterlife, God, reasoning for beliefs, and interpretations of the Bible as any other Christian religion. It is so different that they claim we are not Christian.

Given this, I believe the reason we are not responding to your posts as you want us to is that when we think of hell as you are putting it, it really isn't that bad in our view. The worst place that man can end up, the place that is the destination of the murderers, the rapists, the pedophiles, etc. is described as glorius beyond mans understanding. Hell, the place of torment, is reserved for those that have absolute knowledge of God's existence and deny him, for those that have an absolute knowledge of the consequences of their behaviors and behave improperly all the same, for those with an absolute knowledge of the Truths of life and deny them.

Homosexuals do not go to some bad place in our belief system.

We have answered appropriately for what we believe. You are merely not speaking about what we believe. Our responses just are not adequate because you are asking a question about a subject that we do not believe in, you'd have to ask some of the mainstream Christians on here to get the answer you are looking for.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Thanks for the input 👆

However, check this out:

I love my mother very much. I love her probably more than the rest of my family....honestly. She is the Greatest mother I can imagine one being...

However...

If she were to send me to a place of eternal and excruciation torment...for EVEN ONE MINUTE....

I would no longer consider her my mother, and my love and respect for her would fade.....

Does this reaction and analogy make ANY sense to you ?

Thing is God doesn't want anyone to endure that. The only people who will taste of Eternal torment are those that refuse the get out of jail free card.

This is from the same chapter as the last one:

Doctrine and Covenants 19:17-19

16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;
17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;
18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—
19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and afinished my preparations unto the children of men.

Oh, by the way, We somehow got WAY off topic 😮

Originally posted by peejayd
* there is no death in heaven because corruption is not allowed in heaven (I Corinthians 15:50)... that's why we should all be changed, because if the physical body can enter the kingdom in heaven, what's the point of changing corruptible to incorruption in the first place?

* let us read the context...

"All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fishes.
There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory."
I Corinthians 15:39-41

* verse 39 is about different kinds of flesh while verse 40 is about the two kinds of bodies: one is heavenly (celestial) and one is earthly (terrestrial)... for better understanding, let us see another translation...

"And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies. But the glory of the heavenly is truly different, and that of the earthly different;"
Literal Translation

"And there are bodies of heaven and bodies of earth, but the glory of the one is different from that of the other."
Bible in Basic English

"There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another."
New International Version

"And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but one is the glory of the heavenly, and another that of the earthly;"
Young's Literal Translation

"And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies: but different is the glory of the heavenly, different that of the earthly:"
Darby Bible

"And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; the beauty that belongs to heavenly bodies is different from the beauty that belongs to earthly bodies."
Good News Bible

* see? now to prove to you that bodies used in heaven is different from what we use now on earth, let us read this...

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body."
I Corinthians 15:44

* there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body...

* if you are aware of I Corinthians 15:44, then you should know the difference of the body used in heaven and the body used on earth... plus...

"So also it has been written, The first man, Adam, became a living soul; the last Adam a life-giving Spirit."
I Corinthians 15:45
Literal Translation

"So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit."
The American Standard Version

"Thus also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul; the last Adam a quickening spirit."
Darby Bible

* Christ being the "Last Adam" is said to be a life-giving spirit... which blatantly opposes your belief that Jesus came up to heaven with a physical body... there is no more flesh, blood and bones but a life-giving spirit...

* Jesus resurrected with a physical body, no problem... but when He came to heaven, the physical body is no more but was put on incorruption... the physical was changed into a spirit (I Corinthians 15:45)...

"Wherefore we henceforth know no man after the flesh: even though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now we know him so no more."
II Corinthians 5:16

* Christ is flesh no more...

"Now the Lord is the Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."
II Corinthians 3:17

* Christ now is a spirit... no physical body... 😉

You do realize Peejayd that human beings are tripartite beings. What this means is that we have three aspects to our nature. We are SPIRIT, we have a soul (mind, will, and intellect), but we live in a physical body. When its says that the last Adam is a "life-giving Spirit" it is a reference to the SPIRIT aspect of Christ's three-fold nature. It is NOT talking about His outward appearance (i.e., His physical body). Jesus Christ gives ETERNAL LIFE to all who ask Him. Thus Jesus is a "Life-giving Spirit" as opposed to the first Adam who brought death to the human race. Can you see this?

Now, putting on corruption has nothing to do with the flesh in the sense of having or not having a physical body. You are not getting this. You continue to associate corruption with having or not having a physical body but it has nothing to do with this at all. What corruption and incorruption are talking about is sin. To put on incorruption is to assume a physical body that is devoid of sin. Right now every single person born into the world has sin resident in their members (i.e, their physical body). That is why we STILL sin even after our spirits' get born again. Paul talks about this conflict between our spirit and our flesh. So corruption has nothing to do with having or not having a physical body, but is talking about the body having sin (i.e., corruption).

1 Corinthians 15:40 is NOT talking about human bodies (spiritual or physical) it IS talking about ASTRONOMICAL bodies: the sun, moon, stars, and planets. That is what celestial connotes not an anthropomorphic figure. Stop associating celestial bodies with human bodies in Heaven because that is not what it means.

So, you believe that that same Jesus who rose from the dead suddenly transformed in front of those onlookers as He ascended into Heaven? Then why doesn't the Bible say that? This SAME Jesus who was raised from the dead was the SAME Jesus who ascended to Heaven--THAT'S what the Bible says.

Peejayd, you are contradicting yourself when you admit that Jesus Christ was raised from the dead PHYSICALLY but then ascended to Heaven SPIRITUALLY. Can't you see this? Jesus either rose from the dead spiritually then ascended to Heaven spiritually or Jesus rose from the dead PHYSICALLY and ascended to Heaven PHYSICALLY. There is not a mixture or combination here. That would be a contradiction.

Jesus put on incorruption THE MOMENT He was raised from the dead NOT when He ascended to Heaven. You keep confusing the "putting on incorruption" part with putting on a spiritual body. This is gross error because putting on incorruption has to do with assuming a body devoid of sin. Putting on immortatlity is assuming a body with eternal life.

Question Peejayd: have you heard of the millenial reign of Christ along with His believers? It is mentioned in Revelation 20:4-10. Christ and His believers will return to this earth (Revelation 19:11-21). Jesus will rule for one thousand years in Jerusalem, the beloved city (Revelation 20:9). Now on to my question. How is Jesus going to come back to this earth with a spiritual body or with a physical body? You need a physical body to live in a physical environment. Earth is a PHYSICAL environment. Furthermore, how are us believers going to come back, as spirits (or with a spiritual body) or with a physical body? One thing I think trips you up is the wording. I think everytime you read the word PHYSICAL you think sin. It is possible to have a PHYSICAL body devoid of sin. That is what the whole "putting on incorruption" part is about. I believe that our body will still be physical but it will be incorruptible and immortal--but still PHYSICAL. Again, putting on incorruption has nothing to do with the body transforming into spirit. This is a fallacy. Putting on incorruption has to do with the body becoming FREE OR DEVOID OF SIN.

Jesus has flesh and He has bones STILL. What He DOES NOT have is blood. He does not need it because He has put on incorruption AND immortality. The Bible says that the LIFE of the FLESH is in the blood. But Jesus IS the Resurrection and the Life. Therefore, Jesus IS a Life-giving Spirit, meaning He gives immortality to all who ask Him. Not that He is a disembodied Spirit. He still has a flesh and bone body.

Galatians 6:1
Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted.

You who are SPIRITUAL. Does this mean that we are disembodied spirits? No, it just means those of us who walk in the spirit (i.e., yield to the dictates of our spirit and not the demands of our flesh, which always wants to sin).

Check out these links Peejayd:

http://tektonics.org/lp/physrez.html

http://mcdonaldroad.org/bible/coming.html

Originally posted by Regret
I think the problem is that you aren't accepting that Mormons don't have the same system of beliefs as far as purpose of life, afterlife, God, reasoning for beliefs, and interpretations of the Bible as any other Christian religion. It is so different that they claim we are not Christian.

Interesting...I was unaware of that fact.

Originally posted by Regret
Given this, I believe the reason we are not responding to your posts as you want us to is that when we think of hell as you are putting it, it really isn't that bad in our view.

How bad is your version of Hell ?

I think Hell, torment in any form, is horrible. Even if Hell lasts only a minute, I don't thkn anyone can deal with even an hour of actual torture.

Originally posted by Regret
The worst place that man can end up, the place that is the destination of the murderers, the rapists, the pedophiles, etc. is described as glorius beyond mans understanding. Hell, the place of torment, is reserved for those that have absolute knowledge of God's existence and deny him, for those that have an absolute knowledge of the consequences of their behaviors and behave improperly all the same, for those with an absolute knowledge of the Truths of life and deny them.

But how can you acquire absolute knowledge of God's word, much less his existance ? There is no proof...and if there IS please share.

Originally posted by Regret
Homosexuals do not go to some bad place in our belief system.

What ideas do your version of Hell derive from then, if not the Bible ?

Originally posted by Regret
We have answered appropriately for what we believe. You are merely not speaking about what we believe. Our responses just are not adequate because you are asking a question about a subject that we do not believe in, you'd have to ask some of the mainstream Christians on here to get the answer you are looking for.

Then I apologize, but understand that what you are saying, and what some other Mormons are saying are not agreeable.

Originally posted by docb77
Thing is God doesn't want anyone to endure that. The only people who will taste of Eternal torment are those that refuse the get out of jail free card.

Not to change subject again, but here is my question:

What is the Eternal Torment for ? Because Eve ate an Apple? What is the crime that every individual human committed, that we are automatically sent there, unless we repent ?

What is the actual wrong humanity did ? Can you please answer me this...thanks.

Originally posted by docb77
Thing is God doesn't want anyone to endure that. The only people who will taste of Eternal torment are those that refuse the get out of jail free card.

Which would be fine if life was a game of monopoly. But sadly, it isn't.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
How bad is your version of Hell ?

Hell, not the place I stated was glorious beyond man's understanding, is only described as darkness, the absolute absence of God, and God's power (which we term the Priesthood.) We term it outer darkness, where there is weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth (D&C 101:91, Matt 8:12) I do not believe there is any torment aside from the absence of God, and an understanding of the state of stagnation that the individual is in. This hell is the one for those that had absolute knowledge and denied it.

Hell, the purgatory type place, the place where those that were not good dwell until either they accept Christ or their resurrection occurs, whichever occurs first, is merely a place where you are unable to satisfy the physical desires you have come to be addicted to. If you enjoyed gambling, there is no means by which to do this. If you enjoyed chemicals that were addicting, you do not have a body to satiate these addictions. If you were addicted to sexual pleasures, there is no means by which to satisfy these urges. In short, if your body controlled your spirit instead of your spirit controlling your body, you will still have the cravings you had during life without a means for sating these cravings. Thus, you are tormented by the insatiable cravings that you submitted to in the physical mortal body. And everyone will probably have some degree of this torment, dependant upon the degree to which the spirit controlled the body and vice versa.

We term good as love, with charity being the pinnacle of good, it being the pure love of Christ. Given this, being absolutely selfless, greatly reduces the bodies control, and thus, when we are dead and only spirit, we are not under the control of the cravings that were really only the physical.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I think Hell, torment in any form, is horrible. Even if Hell lasts only a minute, I don't thkn anyone can deal with even an hour of actual torture.

I think that the issue with Christianity is that they do not understand which verses of scripture refer to hell (purgatory) and hell (outer darkness)

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
But how can you acquire absolute knowledge of God's word, much less his existance ? There is no proof...and if there IS please share.

That is what I am saying. There will be an extremely small group of individuals that could make it to Mormon hell (outer darkness.) To aquire absolute knowledge would require one to see God or Jesus at a time other than when Christ was living as a mortal on the earth. Thus, few men will make it to hell.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
What ideas do your version of Hell derive from then, if not the Bible ?

It is from the Bible, as well as modern revelation through our prophets. I believe much of the torment ascribed to hell is a misinterpretation, or mistranslation. I do not believe God created hell, unless by not being present there he can be said to have created it.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Then I apologize, but understand that what you are saying, and what some other Mormons are saying are not agreeable.

It is probably due to our lack of education on the subject of hell. Mormons do not speak of it often, and it is often glossed over. When we speak of anything, we speak of heaven, because everyone is going to some degree of heaven. We also have not been told a lot about what hell is, I assume this is due to the fact that it is not something a person should fret over.

Also, what we would term torment is merely the understanding of what our potential was after the fact. If we die and a person finds out that they could have become a God had they been more charitable, more selfless, more loving and less sensual, less temporally oriented, less proud, I believe that would be torment. The release from that torment is when it is understood that one can progress still, if one but accepts Christ. We believe all the degrees of heaven can progress, with only differences as to rate. Thus, if one is in the lowest degree of heaven, one can learn and progress, and may one day attain everything that anyone else could have. The problem is time frame. If you are in the lowest degree it will take a much longer time than one that was in the highest degree.

So, we may not seem to agree, because we are condensing a large amount of Mormon Doctrine into a description of hell, using our own limited understanding. Myself, I tend to describe it by what heaven is not, and by inference based on as many references to these states as I know of, and then reconciling them with each other to come to a belief as to what the state actually is. Even the Bible contradicts itself a number of times as to what hell is.

Hell in my opinion is mainly regret.

Off topic, "The Outer Darkness" always makes me think of Cthulhu and Yog-Sogoth and things like that. Which is cool.

* i have the first part of my post reply here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=387241&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=14

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You do realize Peejayd that human beings are tripartite beings. What this means is that we have three aspects to our nature. We are SPIRIT,

* wrong, my friend... we are NOT spirits, but we HAVE spirits... one kind of spirit we have is this...

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
Genesis 2:7

* the breath of life given by God to man, here's the proof...

"(For my life is yet whole in me, And the spirit of God is in my nostrils);
Job 27:3

* the spirit of God was breathed to the nostrils of man to live... and it was the breath of life... we HAVE spirits but we are NOT spirits...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
we have a soul (mind, will, and intellect), but we live in a physical body. When its says that the last Adam is a "life-giving Spirit" it is a reference to the SPIRIT aspect of Christ's three-fold nature. It is NOT talking about His outward appearance (i.e., His physical body). Jesus Christ gives ETERNAL LIFE to all who ask Him. Thus Jesus is a "Life-giving Spirit" as opposed to the first Adam who brought death to the human race. Can you see this?

* i see the analogy of the verse Saint Paul had given in I Corinthians 15:45... but that does NOT mean that the statement was only an analogy, it was also the truth... Christ is a life-giving spirit, as i have said in the last (2nd) post i made...

"Wherefore we henceforth know no man after the flesh: even though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now we know him so no more."
II Corinthians 5:16

* Christ is flesh no more...

"Now the Lord is the Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."
II Corinthians 3:17

* Saint Paul said that Christ is now a spirit...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Now, putting on corruption has nothing to do with the flesh in the sense of having or not having a physical body. You are not getting this. You continue to associate corruption with having or not having a physical body but it has nothing to do with this at all. What corruption and incorruption are talking about is sin. To put on incorruption is to assume a physical body that is devoid of sin. Right now every single person born into the world has sin resident in their members (i.e, their physical body). That is why we STILL sin even after our spirits' get born again. Paul talks about this conflict between our spirit and our flesh. So corruption has nothing to do with having or not having a physical body, but is talking about the body having sin (i.e., corruption).

* putting on from corruption to incorruption has EVERYTHING to do with I Corinthians 15:50-53, my friend...

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."
I Corinthians 15:50

* the verse says flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God, NEITHER doth corruption inherit incorruption... as long as there is flesh and blood, there is corruption...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
1 Corinthians 15:40 is NOT talking about human bodies (spiritual or physical) it IS talking about ASTRONOMICAL bodies: the sun, moon, stars, and planets. That is what celestial connotes not an anthropomorphic figure. Stop associating celestial bodies with human bodies in Heaven because that is not what it means.

* first off, my friend, you should not tell or dictate what i should believe or not... and i didn't associate celestial bodies with HUMAN bodies in heaven... remember the verse...

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body."
I Corinthians 15:44

* there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body... here's the different translations regarding I Corinthians 15:40, i hope you understand that the celestial bodies are bodies of heaven and the terrestrial bodies are the bodies of earth, the verse says it very clearly...

"And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies. But the glory of the heavenly is truly different, and that of the earthly different;"
Literal Translation

"And there are bodies of heaven and bodies of earth, but the glory of the one is different from that of the other."
Bible in Basic English

"There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another."
New International Version

"And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but one is the glory of the heavenly, and another that of the earthly;"
Young's Literal Translation

"And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies: but different is the glory of the heavenly, different that of the earthly:"
Darby Bible

"And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; the beauty that belongs to heavenly bodies is different from the beauty that belongs to earthly bodies."
Good News Bible

* see?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
So, you believe that that same Jesus who rose from the dead suddenly transformed in front of those onlookers as He ascended into Heaven? Then why doesn't the Bible say that? This SAME Jesus who was raised from the dead was the SAME Jesus who ascended to Heaven--THAT'S what the Bible says.

* please do not ignore the number of translations i've posted regarding Acts 1:11, i have proven that the angel was talking about the manner of ascension and NOT the physical body of Christ...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Peejayd, you are contradicting yourself when you admit that Jesus Christ was raised from the dead PHYSICALLY but then ascended to Heaven SPIRITUALLY. Can't you see this? Jesus either rose from the dead spiritually then ascended to Heaven spiritually or Jesus rose from the dead PHYSICALLY and ascended to Heaven PHYSICALLY. There is not a mixture or combination here. That would be a contradiction.

* there is no contradiction, my friend... on the contrary, you are the one NOT in accordance with the Bible... of course, Jesus resurrected with a physical body...

"See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye behold me having."
Luke 24:39

* Christ even told his apostles that He had flesh and bones... but that flesh and bones will not be allowed in heaven, why?

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."
I Corinthians 15:50

* the statement of Saint Paul is very clear, unless you want to blatantly contradict it... flesh and blood will not enter the kingdom of God...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Jesus put on incorruption THE MOMENT He was raised from the dead NOT when He ascended to Heaven. You keep confusing the "putting on incorruption" part with putting on a spiritual body. This is gross error because putting on incorruption has to do with assuming a body devoid of sin. Putting on immortatlity is assuming a body with eternal life.

* the hanging question is: if the physical body can enter the kingdom in heaven, what's the point of changing corruption to incorruption in the first place?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Question Peejayd: have you heard of the millenial reign of Christ along with His believers? It is mentioned in Revelation 20:4-10. Christ and His believers will return to this earth (Revelation 19:11-21). Jesus will rule for one thousand years in Jerusalem, the beloved city (Revelation 20:9). Now on to my question. How is Jesus going to come back to this earth with a spiritual body or with a physical body? You need a physical body to live in a physical environment. Earth is a PHYSICAL environment. Furthermore, how are us believers going to come back, as spirits (or with a spiritual body) or with a physical body?

* what's the problem of millenial reign of Christ as a spirit in a physcial environment?

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 4:24

* even now, we should worship God (who is a spirit) in spirit and in truth... there's no problem about that...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
One thing I think trips you up is the wording. I think everytime you read the word PHYSICAL you think sin. It is possible to have a PHYSICAL body devoid of sin. That is what the whole "putting on incorruption" part is about. I believe that our body will still be physical but it will be incorruptible and immortal--but still PHYSICAL. Again, putting on incorruption has nothing to do with the body transforming into spirit. This is a fallacy. Putting on incorruption has to do with the body becoming FREE OR DEVOID OF SIN.

* when you say physical, the body has flesh, blood and bones, is mortal and is corruptible - that is physical... and there is NO WAY that physical body will enter the kingdom of God, unless it was put on incorruption and immortality (I Corinthians 15:50-53)...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Jesus has flesh and He has bones STILL. What He DOES NOT have is blood. He does not need it because He has put on incorruption AND immortality. The Bible says that the LIFE of the FLESH is in the blood. But Jesus IS the Resurrection and the Life. Therefore, Jesus IS a Life-giving Spirit, meaning He gives immortality to all who ask Him. Not that He is a disembodied Spirit. He still has a flesh and bone body.

* are you saying that flesh and bones CAN enter heaven but flesh and blood CANNOT? what kind of interpretation is that? it's not even Biblical...

* and the "life-giving spirit" IS a spirit... and a spirit has NO flesh and bones (Luke 24:39)... see?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You who are SPIRITUAL. Does this mean that we are disembodied spirits? No, it just means those of us who walk in the spirit (i.e., yield to the dictates of our spirit and not the demands of our flesh, which always wants to sin).

* so, being spiritual does NOT mean we ARE spirits... 😉

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Not to change subject again, but here is my question:

What is the Eternal Torment for ? Because Eve ate an Apple? What is the crime that every individual human committed, that we are automatically sent there, unless we repent ?

What is the actual wrong humanity did ? Can you please answer me this...thanks.

Nope, the "apple incident" was completely paid for by Christ. No one who was ever alive will have to suffer because of that.

Hell is because we're screwed up people. I screw up all the time. Basically life is a minefield and God is doing 2 jobs at once. He's yelling "don't step there", and He's acting as the Doctor/Surgeon.

Of course next you'll ask why God made the world such a minefield. The answer is he didn't. God gave us a great place and then we put the mines down (That's probably part of the "us screwing up" thing).

Originally posted by peejayd
* please do not ignore the number of translations i've posted regarding Acts 1:11, i have proven that the angel was talking about the manner of ascension and NOT the physical body of Christ...

* there is no contradiction, my friend... on the contrary, you are the one NOT in accordance with the Bible... of course, Jesus resurrected with a physical body...

"See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye behold me having."
Luke 24:39

* Christ even told his apostles that He had flesh and bones... but that flesh and bones will not be allowed in heaven, why?

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."
I Corinthians 15:50

* the statement of Saint Paul is very clear, unless you want to blatantly contradict it... flesh and blood will not enter the kingdom of God...

* the hanging question is: if the physical body can enter the kingdom in heaven, what's the point of changing corruption to incorruption in the first place?

* what's the problem of millenial reign of Christ as a spirit in a physcial environment?

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 4:24

* even now, we should worship God (who is a spirit) in spirit and in truth... there's no problem about that...

* when you say physical, the body has flesh, blood and bones, is mortal and is corruptible - that is physical... and there is NO WAY that physical body will enter the kingdom of God, unless it was put on incorruption and immortality (I Corinthians 15:50-53)...

* are you saying that flesh and bones CAN enter heaven but flesh and blood CANNOT? what kind of interpretation is that? it's not even Biblical...

* and the "life-giving spirit" IS a spirit... and a spirit has NO flesh and bones (Luke 24:39)... see?

* so, being spiritual does NOT mean we ARE spirits... 😉

That is exactly what I am saying. Flesh and blood CANNOT enter heaven but flesh and bone can because Jesus IS FLESH AND BONE. Jesus entered Heaven with a flesh and bone, incorruptible, immortal body. This is what the Scriptures reveal. You can learn as much about what the Bible DOES SAY as you can by what it DOES NOT say. Nowhere does the Bible say that Jesus transformed into a spirit then ascended to Heaven.

Spirits occupy the spirit world and physical things occupy the physical world. That is the problem with a "spirit" Christ ruling on a physical planet.

The point of changing FROM a mortal (subject to death) corruptible (sin-resident) body TO an incorruptible (devoid of sin) immortal (no longer capable of death) body is to deal with the sin and death PROBLEM. Can you see this? There is no sin or death in Heaven so that is why FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT inherit the Kingdom of God because flesh and blood is a synonym for unregenerate (i.e., not born again) humanity. Flesh and blood is a reference to sinful humanity still subject to death. So God dealt with humanity's SIN AND DEATH problem through the sacrifice of His Son Jesus. NOW, anyone who wants to go to heaven can be free from sin and death by faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus said though you may die (i.e., physically) you WILL LIVE (i.e., eternally in His presence because you have everlasting life).

I am not saying that every single person who dies goes to Heaven in a physical body because they do not. But Jesus DID, I think Enoch and Elijah did as well.

Furthermore, it does NOT say that flesh and blood CANNOT ENTER the Kingdom of God it says cannot INHERIT.

Acts 1:9-11
9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus , who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

This same Jesus who ascended BODILY will SO COME IN LIKE MANNER...meaning...BODILY, not spiritually.

Originally posted by peejayd
* i have the first part of my post reply here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=387241&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=14

* wrong, my friend... we are NOT spirits, but we HAVE spirits... one kind of spirit we have is this...

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
Genesis 2:7

* the breath of life given by God to man, here's the proof...

"(For my life is yet whole in me, And the spirit of God is in my nostrils);
Job 27:3

* the spirit of God was breathed to the nostrils of man to live... and it was the breath of life... we HAVE spirits but we are NOT spirits...

* i see the analogy of the verse Saint Paul had given in I Corinthians 15:45... but that does NOT mean that the statement was only an analogy, it was also the truth... Christ is a life-giving spirit, as i have said in the last (2nd) post i made...

"Wherefore we henceforth know no man after the flesh: even though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now we know him so no more."
II Corinthians 5:16

* Christ is flesh no more...

"Now the Lord is the Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."
II Corinthians 3:17

* Saint Paul said that Christ is now a spirit...

* putting on from corruption to incorruption has EVERYTHING to do with I Corinthians 15:50-53, my friend...

"Now this I say, brethren, that [B]flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."
I Corinthians 15:50

* the verse says flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God, NEITHER doth corruption inherit incorruption... as long as there is flesh and blood, there is corruption...

* first off, my friend, you should not tell or dictate what i should believe or not... and i didn't associate celestial bodies with HUMAN bodies in heaven... remember the verse...

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body."
I Corinthians 15:44

* there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body... here's the different translations regarding I Corinthians 15:40, i hope you understand that the celestial bodies are bodies of heaven and the terrestrial bodies are the bodies of earth, the verse says it very clearly...

"And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies. But the glory of the heavenly is truly different, and that of the earthly different;"
Literal Translation

"And there are bodies of heaven and bodies of earth, but the glory of the one is different from that of the other."
Bible in Basic English

"There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another."
New International Version

"And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but one is the glory of the heavenly, and another that of the earthly;"
Young's Literal Translation

"And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies: but different is the glory of the heavenly, different that of the earthly:"
Darby Bible

"And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; the beauty that belongs to heavenly bodies is different from the beauty that belongs to earthly bodies."
Good News Bible

* see? [/B]

Peejayd, we are created in the IMAGE AND LIKENESS of God. Jesus said, "God is a SPIRIT..." Therefore, WE ARE SPIRITS too. That is why God is called the FATHER of SPIRITS, because we too ARE SPIRITS. Paul had a lot to say about the INNER MAN. In 1 Corinthians 9:27 Paul says, "I discipline MY BODY." Paul didn't say my spirit that I own, have, or possess--disciplines my body, he said "I." Who is the "I" that Paul is referring to? Paul is talking about the REAL him, who IS A SPIRIT just like God. Just as God the Father is Triune (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) so are we (spirit, soul, and body). Read this:

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely ; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Don't let the "your" part confuse you. You ARE a spirit, you don't HAVE one, YOU ARE ONE. But you DO have a soul (mind, will, emotions), and a physical body. You are not a soul or body; you have a soul, you have a body, but you ARE a spirit. That, as well as the anthropomorphic features (head, torso, legs, feet, etc.) that you have are what is created in the image and likeness of God. Soul and spirit are so similar that they have been used almost interchangeably, but they ARE NOT the same. If they were the same then you wouldn't be able to DIVIDE THEM.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit , and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

There is a division or distinction between soul and spirit. However, in Revelation and in other places the word soul is used as if it is referring to a spirit person or entity. But the soul is the mind, will, and emotions; it is the seat of these faculties. I heard a minister give this very good analogy once. He said picture an empty glass sitting on a table. Let's say that the empty glass represents the human body. Now, fill this empty glass with water. Imagine yourself pouring water into this empty glass. Let's say that the water represents the spirit (the real you) and the "wet" or "wetness" characteristic of the water represents the soul. There you have it: the three-fold nature of humankind. When a person dies the water (spirit) along with the wet (soul) departs from the glass (physical body). So when a person dies their spirit and soul leaves their physical body. Imagine pouring the water from the glass. You cannot have water without having water’s “wet” quality too. So you cannot have a spirit without a soul; they go together. But you can analyze them and study them compartmentally.

Originally posted by peejayd
* i have the first part of my post reply here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=387241&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=14

* wrong, my friend... we are NOT spirits, but we HAVE spirits... one kind of spirit we have is this...

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
Genesis 2:7

* the breath of life given by God to man, here's the proof...

"(For my life is yet whole in me, And the spirit of God is in my nostrils);
Job 27:3

* the spirit of God was breathed to the nostrils of man to live... and it was the breath of life... we HAVE spirits but we are NOT spirits...

* i see the analogy of the verse Saint Paul had given in I Corinthians 15:45... but that does NOT mean that the statement was only an analogy, it was also the truth... Christ is a life-giving spirit, as i have said in the last (2nd) post i made...

"Wherefore we henceforth know no man after the flesh: even though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now we know him so no more."
II Corinthians 5:16

* Christ is flesh no more...

"Now the Lord is the Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."
II Corinthians 3:17

* Saint Paul said that Christ is now a spirit...

* putting on from corruption to incorruption has EVERYTHING to do with I Corinthians 15:50-53, my friend...

"Now this I say, brethren, that [B]flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."
I Corinthians 15:50

* the verse says flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God, NEITHER doth corruption inherit incorruption... as long as there is flesh and blood, there is corruption...

* first off, my friend, you should not tell or dictate what i should believe or not... and i didn't associate celestial bodies with HUMAN bodies in heaven... remember the verse...

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body."
I Corinthians 15:44

* there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body... here's the different translations regarding I Corinthians 15:40, i hope you understand that the celestial bodies are bodies of heaven and the terrestrial bodies are the bodies of earth, the verse says it very clearly...

"And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies. But the glory of the heavenly is truly different, and that of the earthly different;"
Literal Translation

"And there are bodies of heaven and bodies of earth, but the glory of the one is different from that of the other."
Bible in Basic English

"There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another."
New International Version

"And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but one is the glory of the heavenly, and another that of the earthly;"
Young's Literal Translation

"And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies: but different is the glory of the heavenly, different that of the earthly:"
Darby Bible

"And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; the beauty that belongs to heavenly bodies is different from the beauty that belongs to earthly bodies."
Good News Bible

* see? [/B]

2 Corinthians 3:17 states that the Lord is THE Spirit, not A Spirit. There is a big difference. What God wants us to see here is the contrast between the letter-of-the-law approach to God's commandments, and the way things were done under Moses' administration. Go back up to verse 3 and 8 to get a feel or better contextual understanding.

2 Corinthians 3:3
3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.

2 Corinthians 3:8
8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious ?

Did you catch that? Paul said, "how will the ministry of the Spirit...." This sets the context for 2 Cor. 3:17. Paul contrasts the ministry under Moses which is characterized as being "of the letter."

2 Corinthians 3:6
6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant , not of the letter but of the Spirit ; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Sorry for the rainbow of colors but I want certain points to stand out. Paul talks about being a minister of the New Covenant. Moses was a minister as it were of the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant with its litany of dos and don'ts was somewhat legalistic (i.e., of the letter). But under the New Covenant everything is a matter of the heart (i.e., spirit). We do things from the heart. There is no eye for an eye legalism under the New Covenant. We LOVE our enemies, BLESS those who curse us and so on. We don't try and exact tooth for tooth or stone people who commit adultery. All of those goings on were very legalistic. So what Paul endeavors to do is show how much more glorious the ministry under the Spirit is so much better. The Spirit gives life but the letter (the codified body of laws that the children of Israel were bound by) kills. Remember the law was given so that sin would be sin and so that the Israelites could see that they were incapable of keeping the law in its entirety. If they offended in one point...then they were guilty of breaking it all. The letter does in fact kill. I studied the context and discovered that 2 Corinthians is not talking about Jesus being a Spirit. That is not the gist of what Paul is trying to convey. Paul is contrasting the two, different ministries (The Old Covenant and The New Covenant). One is characterized as a ministry of death, written and engraved on stones.

2 Corinthians 3:7
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones , was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,

The other one of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...oops! I got a little carried away. I mean life and liberty.

2 Corinthians 3:6
6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

2 Corinthians 3:17
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Under the New Covenant there is life because of Jesus and that life begins in our hearts (i.e., spiritually). So when 2 Cor. 3:17 says that, "Now the Lord is the Spirit...." it is in direct contrast to the letter of the law. There was the "letter" but NOW there is THE Spirit. Paul puts his finger on the New Covenant, that is, the ministry of the Spirit when he says, "Now the Lord IS THE SPIRIT. In other words between the two ministries (Old and New Covenant). Imagine Paul putting his finger on this one and saying, "this one here, the one that we Christians are under, the New Covenant, THIS is the one that the Lord represents." The Lord is the Spirit or SPIRIT ONE but Moses represented the LETTER ONE.

I lost and confused you. Sorry.

Let me read 2 Corinthians 3:17 this way. I will substitute Moses for "the Lord" and in place of "Spirit" I will put "letter" an instead of liberty I will insert bondage (the opposite of liberty) and you will see what I am talking about.

2 Corinthians 3:17
17 Now Moses is (or represents) [COLOR=blue]the letter ; and where the letter of Moses is, there is bondage. [/COLOR]

You probably still did not get this. Well, I tried. It is somewhat confusing but that is all 2 Cor. 3:17 is talking about. It is not saying that Jesus is a Spirit.

Anyway, celestial bodies is NOT a reference to the anthropomorphic bodies of the saints in Heaven and terrestial bodies is NOT talking about the anthropomorphic bodies of saints on earth. I keep reiterating this to you. Celestial and terrestial is all about the astronomical bodies in the heavens. Celestial points to the sun, moon, stars, but terrestial points to the earth. Why do you think that Paul talks about the sun, moon, and stars in the very next verse? These are the HEAVENLY bodies Paul is talking about, not some body composed of some heavenly substance up in Heaven somewhere or a body composed of earthyly material on earth.

Originally posted by peejayd
* i have the first part of my post reply here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=387241&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=14

...

"Wherefore we henceforth know no man after the flesh: even though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now we know him so no more."
II Corinthians 5:16

* Christ is flesh no more...

...

* see?

I JUST noticed something: Paul said, "...we henceforth know NO MAN after the flesh...." This is very important because Paul says the VERY SAME THING about Jesus! Brother Peejayd, if Christ is flesh no more (based on your understanding and interpretation of this Scripture verse) then you MUST come to the same conclusion about other people. Paul said we henceforth know NO MAN (man is a general term and it can stand for people) after the flesh. So it would read like this:

"Wherefore we henceforth know no PERSON OR PEOPLE after the flesh: even though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now we know him so no more ."

Paul said that he (and whoever else is included in the "We"😉 know NO MAN (i.e., person or people) AFTER THE FLESH. Then in the same breath as it were Paul said the same thing in reference to or about Jesus.

"...even though we have known Christ after the flesh , yet now we know him so no more." ."

Let me break it down for you bro. What you believe is that this Scripture is proof-positive that Jesus ascended to Heaven with a spiritual body because "Christ is flesh no more" right? Wrong. If you conclude that Christ is flesh no more and you base or support that line of thinking/belief on this verse of Scripture, then you have to apply the same logic to other people. Remember Paul said the same thing about other people. He didn't just say that he does not know Christ after the flesh anymore and then stop. He said that he knows NO MAN after the flesh either. So, based on your logic and Bible interpretation ability are you saying that other people are flesh no more?

Originally posted by docb77
Nope, the "apple incident" was completely paid for by Christ. No one who was ever alive will have to suffer because of that.

So Jesus suffered a tormenting, agonizing three hours, because Eve ate an Apple ?

I'd hate to be in a courtroom where God is the Judge and Heaven is the Jury....scared

I've done FAR WORSE THINGS than eat an Apple... 😆

Originally posted by docb77
Hell is because we're screwed up people. I screw up all the time. Basically life is a minefield and God is doing 2 jobs at once. He's yelling "don't step there", and He's acting as the Doctor/Surgeon.

Failing tests, sexually experimenting, creating art, making mistakes, and growing up does not make us screwed up people.

Torturing, Murdering, or Controlling other people, or making attempts at those things, is what makes us screwed up people.

Originally posted by docb77
Of course next you'll ask why God made the world such a minefield. The answer is he didn't. God gave us a great place and then we put the mines down (That's probably part of the "us screwing up" thing).

You mean when Eve ate the apple ?

HERE WE GO AGAIN 🙄

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
So Jesus suffered a tormenting, agonizing three hours, because Eve ate an Apple ?

I'd [b]hate to be in a courtroom where God is the Judge and Heaven is the Jury....scared

I've done FAR WORSE THINGS than eat an Apple... 😆
[/B]

No, Jesus did that for all our screw-ups as well. The "apple" was only part of it. Jesus suffered in part for your "worse things" as well.

The rest of your post was opinion. You're entitled to it. God may not agree with what you think sins are, but you have a free mind. And whether you recognize your sins as such or not. Jesus already paid for them.

Ok I'm gonna be quiet now. I don't much like getting preachy over the internet.

Originally posted by docb77
No, Jesus did that for all our screw-ups as well. The "apple" was only part of it. Jesus suffered in part for your "worse things" as well.

The rest of your post was opinion. You're entitled to it. God may not agree with what you think sins are, but you have a free mind. And whether you recognize your sins as such or not. Jesus already paid for them.

Ok I'm gonna be quiet now. I don't much like getting preachy over the internet.

But Preaching is what you do Best. ✅

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
But Preaching is what you do Best. ✅

come on, there's a difference between religious argumentation and preaching. One uses logic, the other is simple exposition.