Do the Marvel and Dc multiverses exist within the same creation?

Originally posted by starlock

Not one scan in this whole thread states "marvel has its own omniverse"..
not one single panel of repetitive scans-none

Last time I checked, TOAA was solely a Marvel property.

.............................................................................................................

1. Omniverse

2. TOAA

1. "Group of alternate universeS which encompasses ALL Reality"

2. The entity believed to be the Supreme being/Creator of the Omniverse"

.....................................................................................................

Originally posted by starlock

and showing references to omniverse in marvel comics does not make it theirs...
things like"protectors of the omniverse" "threatened the omniverse"
are not direct statemnts that make it marvels own

That's not a reference, that actually happened On Panel,
and was confirmed in the 2008 Official Marvel Handbook:

.........................................................................................................

Excerpt from Marvel Handbook clip - 2008 - Exiles bio:

"Insectoid alien explorers discover an observatory outside of space-time,
named ... later the Crystal Palace,
the equipment allowed them to observe every Reality in the Omniverse.

Eventually,
accidentally they caused All Creation (Omniverse) to become displaced"

.....................................................................................................

So they damaged the entire Omniverse? (Not just a "reference"😉

.....................................................................................................

On Panel:

That's why the Exiles were chosen to "fix realities" across the Omniverse:

This FACT ... is repeated on every first page of an Exiles comic book On Panel:

"Exiles ... repairing damaged Realities and protecting the Omniverse"

.....................................................................................................

Originally posted by starlock

A 2005 definition of omniverse from an official marvel handbook of Alternate Universes states
that marvel shares its omniverse with other companies
http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altuhb2005streetsamuraids2.jpg

Which is interesting because the person who was posting this 2005 info,
was claiming and is still claiming ... Marvel only has a single Multiverse.

So I guess you'll at-least disagree with him on that,
since his only piece of proof clearly states that Marvel is a Megaverse.

.....................................................................................................

Now again,
realize the above scan comes from the GLOSSARY of TERMS of 2005
where one finds definitions to terms in Marvel.

.....................................................................................................

UPDATED!!!!!

This is from the Glossary of Terms of Winter 2007

Definition of the Omniverse:

"Group of alternate universeS which encompasses ALL Reality"

======= CREATED by TOAA =========

.....................................................................................................

On Panel ... coincidentally,

Brian protects the SAME exact definition/Omniverse above: (that TOAA CREATED)

"Reality ... Brian came to realize the size and breadth of Reality,
he learned of the Omniverse and its unending alternatives,
Alternative Realities ...
the Omniverse is the collection of All those possibilities.

The Siege perilous is the Doorway to the Omniverse"

.....................................................................................................

Here is the Siege Perilous, "the Doorway to the (Marvel) Omniverse"

.....................................................................................................

"The Omniverse"

Thats the actual Omniverse being depicted/illustrated On Panel:

.....................................................................................................

Originally posted by starlock

Every hanbook entry after is not as thorough, but states -all reality
http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=omni2mz6.jpg

You missed the entry right below - "All Reality"

✅ ... The CREATOR of "All that Reality" ---- TOAA (Marvel's Supreme Being)

.....................................................................................................

Originally posted by starlock

So has marvel changed its stance since 2005?

Coincidentally, that FACT right there annihilates the 2005 Glossary excerpt.

If Marvel is just a Megaverse,
why is the LT dealing with the power of TWO MegaverseS?

See, it's these kinds of paradox's people enjoy ignoring.

Originally posted by starlock

i am to believe that in 2005 marvel stated they share a omniverse with all other companies,
and in 2006 till now they changed their stance...?
it looks to me that they state ALL REALITY

In 2006 the LT was manipulating TWO MegaverseS
(ON PANEL and in his Official 2006 Bio)

...................................................................................

Fact the LT was dealing with the power of TWO MegaverseS

"He (LT) sits at the CENTER of ALL things,
feeling the flow of countless Realities,
their FATE irrevocably determined through the judgment
rendered by HIS Three Faces"

............................

"the Living Tribunal also helped fashion the twin Entities the BROTHERS,
each of whom became the guardian of a different Megaverse,
within the larger Omniverse but encompassing MORE than a single Multiverse"

...................................................................................

In 2005 (in that single Glossary-NO on panel verification of any mind)
Marvel is considered a Megaverse.

In 2006 (in LT's Official Handbook - with On Panel verification)
The LT holds the power of TWO MegaverseS in one hand.

In the Winter 2007 (Glossary of Terms) - with On Panel verification)
The Omniverse are Alternate Universes that encompass all Reality,
All Reality which was CREATED by TOAA. (a Marvel Character)

Is it just me, or is there like either a contradiction there,
or simply a quick Retcon?

You decide.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Interesting,
I believe I posted like 10 times the [B]Glossary of Terms of Winter 2007,
which clearly specifies TOAA Created the Omniverse.

Last time I checked, TOAA was solely a Marvel property.

.............................................................................................................

1. Omniverse

2. TOAA

1. "Group of alternate universeS which encompasses ALL Reality"

2. The entity believed to be the Supreme being/Creator of the Omniverse"

..................................................................................................... [/B]

But I doubt it...

Originally posted by starlock

Crossovers have been shown as proof more that once in this thread,
and in the hanbooks those crossovers have been mentioned

The JLA/Avengers in only Two separate bios, (Pulsar's and Grandmaster's)
and Silver Surfer/Superman in One bio. (Impossible Man)

=================== This is interesting ================

The JLA/Avengers arc, is NOT considered a "significant" issue, to Pulsar's History:

In other words ... while it's recognized ... it's inconsequential.

I mean, how can such a "major" event as this (where Eternity itself nearly died)
be insignificant?

Perhaps because like Galan and I have said,
Cross-overs are only meaningful withIN the containment of said Cross-over.

...................................................................................

Pulsar's bio is from 2005.
IM and Grandmaster from 2006.

Unfortunately the 2006 bios don't have a "significant" issues section,
but imo, it's safe to assume the same insignificance would be applied.

Again, obviously, not every appearance is mentioned of the character,
but something as BIG as this, should be,
unless it's well ... insignificant.

Originally posted by starlock

A marvel site has updated their definition of the omniverse-
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Marvel_Universe

And it states marvel shares an omniverse

I found this in the Terms and Conditions at Marvel.com

http://www.marvel.com/company/index.htm?sub=terms_current.htm
...................................................................................

Right to Monitor and Editorial Control.

"Marvel reserves the right, but does not have an obligation,
to monitor and/or review all materials posted to the Web Site
or through the Web Site’s services or features by users,
and Marvel is not responsible for any such materials posted by users."

😬

As far as definitions & power grids are concerned, Marvel.com is dead to me.

Marvel.com can only be trusted, concerning Historical bibliographies.

Why?

Cause we can us On Panel evidence to confirm it's claims.

As ever and forever: On Panel >>> Handbook bios >>> Any Website.

Originally posted by starlock

the writer of the hanbook is the one who updated the site,
he has seen this thread and posters who are members of both sites brang it to his attention-yet this person was insulted twice in this thread-shamefull really
http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=44342&page=1&pp=20

No offense, but this meaningless.

Marvel Comics (On Panel) >>> Marvel official handbooks >>> Marvel.com/Marvunapp

Other sites ... will not even be considered.

I don't think any sensible debater
will start using "Comixfan" as their resource for evidence.

Originally posted by starlock

Btw this guy just happen to be the guy
who wrote the entry for impossible man and JASPERS

.....................................................................................................

Official Marvel Handbook clip - 2008 - Exiles BIO ...

"Exiles teamed with Excalibur,
to stop Jaspers & the Fury from destroying the Omniverse"

.....................................................................................................

Originally posted by starlock

There is one Omniverse and all companies and even our universe is in it .

Originally posted by manjaro

also how can there be ppl claiming

that our world is in the Marvel Omniverse and not be f ****ed in the head??!!???

seriuolsy im not even trying to be funny.

.....................................................................................................

This is the voice at "Comixfan" disputing events/occurances
that have been depicted On Panel and confirmed in bios,
let's see if this voice contradicts itself.

.....................................................................................................

Originally posted by Comixfan

But what about some Marvel characters who claim to deal with not just the multiverse,
but the Omniverse?
Doesn't that prove that Marvel has it's own Omniverse,
separate from every one elses?

Nope.

Merlyn (and latterly Roma) claim to be Omniversal protectors.

It could be they are just being boastful

"it could be they are being boastful"

Hmm ... So Merlyn literally wrote his own Entry in the UPDATED Bios?

.....................................................................................................

As we know, Merlyn was the Marvel "Supreme Omniversal Guardian"

..........................

Merlyn created Otherworld & the Starlight Citidel
"from which he oversaw the Omniverse"

In fact,
Merlyn even made a 50,000 year plan,
to manipulate the entire Omniverse, towards enlightenment & peace"

....................................................................................................

---------------------- One down ------------------------

Originally posted by Comixfan

What about the Exiles, who have claimed the mantle of Omniversal defenders? Well, they may well be defending the entire Omniverse,

but in the same way most NYPD cops only actually patrol a relatively small part of NYC,
the Exiles are mostly patrolling the "Marvel neighborhood.

Cause according to the 2008 Exiles Bio and Exiles Comic Book:

.........................................................................................................

Excerpt from Marvel Handbook clip - 2008 - Exiles bio:

"Insectoid alien explorers discover an observatory outside of space-time,
named ... later the Crystal Palace,
the equipment allowed them to observe every Reality in the Omniverse.

Eventually,
accidentally they caused All Creation (Omniverse) to become displaced"

.....................................................................................................

That's why the Exiles were chosen to "fix realities" across the Omniverse:

.....................................................................................................

This is what you see on the first page of every Exiles book:

"Exiles ... repairing damaged Realities and [I]Protecting the Omniverse"

....................................................................................................

And make no mistake people ... it is the entire Omniverse they deal with,
not just the "Marvel neighborhood"

.....................................................................................................

Exiles - (2008)

"Those lights we've been assuming was a star, just as we see from Earth,
they represent entire Dimensions.

I think that's a representation of the entire Omniverse,
we're looking at All Creation"

.................................................................................................................

that's a representation of the ENTIRE Omniverse,
WE'RE LOOKING AT ALL Creation"

AGAIN!!!!

.................................................................................................................

Exiles (2008)

"Crystal Palace ... home of the Exiles ...
when they look up into the sky at night at what they believe are Stars ...
... it turns out they're really beholding Entire DimensionS,
the WHOLE, incredible panoply (collection) of the Omniverse ...
... right before their eyes"

.................................................................................................................

the WHOLE, incredible panoply (collection) of the Omniverse ...
... right before their eyes"

.................................................................................................................

---------------------- Two down ------------------------------

Originally posted by Comixfan

What about the effects of Scarlet Witch's HoM reality warp?
X-Men: Die by the Sword noted
"Not long ago,
the Omniverse was swept by a temporal reality wave of unimaginable power,
that literally tore the Continuum to bits and re-arranged it.
Then after a time,
it apparently reversed itself and put everything back the way it was."

Ignoring the option of hyperbole for a moment,
first,
there's the note that everything was eventually put back the way it was -
which means that if HoM did have a ripple effect across all realities
and changed (for example) Bananaman's reality,
since everything got put back to normal after a while,
then Bananaman isn't likely to have noticed what happened.

That's right folks,

Wanda Re-Created DC/Bananaman
and the Real World according to this fella. 🙂

But since Wanda put everything back the way it was,
they didn't notice.

============================================

Originally posted by Comixfan

Also, we again hit the fact that the Omniverse is infinite;
what was a tsunami rushing over the Marvel multiverse
was likely a small ripple by the time it hit the more distant parts of the Omniverse (such as the realities owned by other companies)

Now the Marvel Multiverse re-ordered,
but other companies "likely" just felt a small "ripple" ...

"likely?" .... Is this person just making this up on the spot?

Meh, this theory isn't mentioned anywhere On Panel or Bios.

What is really stated (CLEARLY)

.................................................................................................................

"Not long ago, the Omniverse was swept
by a Temporal Reality Wave of unimaginable power,
that literally tore the Continuum to bits and Re-arranged it"

.................................................................................................................

If Claremont (the REAl Writer of THIS Arc) agrees with his unsupported speculation,
I'll concede.

Originally posted by Comixfan

We are told the Continuum got tore into pieces - but how big were those pieces?
At the distant edges of the damage,
we could find that entire megaverses were moved around,
but that nothing inside those megaverses got rearranged relative to one another.

Now "entire MegaverseS" were shifted,
but the contents withIn said MegaverseS were not affected.

===========================================

Originally posted by Comixfan

Who was going to notice that for the duration of HoM
the realtive interdimensional locations of the Star Wars multiverse
and the Star Trek multiverse had changed?

Now again, Wanda DID affect the contents of other Companies,
BUT,
again,
it went unnoticed since Wanda put everything back the way it was.

It's a cool theory actually, but unsupported.

Mr Master for you to say marvel changed their stance from 2005 to 2008 is a start, so from that what do you think made them change their view? where is the retcon and what was the cause?is it the writers who come and go on certain series or the executives who write the checks? do you think that the comics that came out previous to 2005 that state omniverse ment marvel shared the omniverse?

Remember we do not all agree with your methods..why does everybody have to agree that comics are greater than bios and official handbooks, is it not your opinon that one is greater than the other or is that in a comic also?

I never tell anybody what is and what is not in matters of how one comes to their conclusions, i just try and bring my view to the table and see what happens, it seems you are dictating to us the procedure to which we all must use when making up our minds

With no disrespect intended

I was just thinking about this on the way to work today, and this is related to this thread and could stand alone as it's own topic. In regards to the whole validity/hyperbole of some statments as being omniversal threats. We have heard that slung around quite a few times, my question is if guys like mad james jaspers are really omniversal threats and were truely on the verge of destroying everything, wouldnt TOAA or whateveryou want to call it get involved in said matter? To treaten the omniverse wouldnt you require power equal to that of TOAA because it is impossible to be beyond TOAA in power, infact it should be impossible equal to TOAA (as we have observed with thanos and THOTU). I mean these things just seem to stick out in my mind today, unless one would say that TOAA doesn't care if the omniverse is destroyed or not cause he could just make it again, better yet why make it to where it would be possible for someone to be powerful enough to do that in the first place. Master you have explained your side to me and I understand your standpoint so i am intreseted to know what your theory is on this.

Originally posted by lando005
I was just thinking about this on the way to work today,
and this is related to this thread and could stand alone as it's own topic.
In regards to the whole validity/hyperbole of some statments as being omniversal threats.
We have heard that slung around quite a few times

Actually we can't say it's hyperbole because it's actually been depicted on panel,
and confirmed as an event that took place in official Marvel Handbooks.
Like I presented above so many times across this thread.

Alien Insectiods damaged the entire Omniverse.
(confirmed on panel and in bio)
Alien Entity by re-created Marvel from it's Pre-Big Bang point,
if Marvel has an Omniverse, then that Omniverse got created from a Void.
(on panel and confirmed)
Wanda warped all of Marvel. ("literally tore the Omniverse to pieces"😉
(confirmed across several Marvel titles,
confirmed to have been a Reality Wave labeled
the "Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp" in the 2006 official Handbooks)

The Summer 2007 Updated Bio states it out right:

"Following the restoration of Reality after its Warping by the Scarlet Witch"

...................................................................................................................

...................................................................................................................

And it was confirmed On Panel what that was:

"Not long ago, the Omniverse was swept
by a Temporal Reality Wave of unimaginable power,
that literally tore the Continuum to bits and Re-arranged it"

...................................................................................................................

(excerpt from the Official Handbook of the Marvel - Jaspers bio)

"During the Scarlet Witch's 'House of M' Reality Warp,

Jaspers Reformed alive merged with the Fury"

...................................................................................................................

And Who that was doing it:

With the line "No More mutants",

Wanda managed to shift Reality causing cracks across "ALL" Realities.

Allowing the Shadow King to slip back into the 616 universe.

...................................................................................................................

"She changed the World once huh?"

"Yes, ... but She Altered ALL of Reality" ... (not just the world)

...................................................................................................................

So lando, I'll say in imo to not offend others,

"Hyperbole" refers to just statements with no proof of action,
like Phoenix sparking big bangs, yea it's been stated but never seen.

Originally posted by lando005
my question is if guys like mad james jaspers are really omniversal threats
and were truely on the verge of destroying everything,
wouldnt TOAA or whateveryou want to call it get involved in said matter?

So in reality, it's Toaa/god themselves that create those threats,
to make interesting stories, but since they create them, they're always in control,
the Omniverse/Megaverse whatever one believes it is,
is, with a doubt, nothing more than ideas and drawings on a piece of paper,
to Toaa/god portrayed in (FF#511)

Originally posted by lando005
To treaten the omniverse wouldnt you require power equal to that of TOAA
because it is impossible to be beyond TOAA in power,

And I agree, there is nothing above Toaa/god.

Originally posted by lando005
infact it should be impossible equal to TOAA
(as we have observed with thanos and THOTU).

ie. If Toaa/god decided to include themselves in a story with all their glory,
it'd be in the form of THOTI.

Remember, Thanos was still touched by conviction/dilemma/perseverance,
which gave him substance and human-like qualities (burdened with absolute power)

This made the story not only interesting to read,
but it made Thanos more of what Toaa/god is than ever before.

Because after all, Toaa/god (avatars of writer/artist) in FF#511
represents Human beings.

"That's what my creations do, they find the Humanity in God"

...................................................................................................................

As you can see here,
Toaa/god are ignorant about what's gonna happen next
until he (artist) and his collaborator (writer) create it:

Just like Human beings.

Originally posted by lando005
I mean these things just seem to stick out in my mind today,
unless one would say that TOAA doesn't care if the omniverse is destroyed
or not cause he could just make it again,
better yet
why make it to where it would be possible
for someone to be powerful enough to do that in the first place.

They can just as easily draw the Omniverse again with the stroke of a pencil:

"the Wellspring of All Reality"

Originally posted by lando005
Master you have explained your side to me
and I understand your standpoint
so i am intreseted to know what your theory is on this.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Wut up lando.

Actually we can't say it's hyperbole because it's actually been depicted on panel,
and confirmed as an event that took place in official Marvel Handbooks.
Like I presented above so many times across this thread.

Alien Insectiods damaged the entire Omniverse.
(confirmed on panel and in bio)
Alien Entity by re-created Marvel from it's Pre-Big Bang point,
if Marvel has an Omniverse, then that Omniverse got created from a Void.
(on panel and confirmed)
Wanda warped all of Marvel. ("literally tore the Omniverse to pieces"😉
(confirmed across several Marvel titles,
confirmed to have been a Reality Wave labeled
the "Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp" in the 2006 official Handbooks)

The Summer 2007 Updated Bio states it out right:

"Following the restoration of [B]Reality after its Warping by the Scarlet Witch"

...................................................................................................................

...................................................................................................................

And it was confirmed On Panel what that was:

"Not long ago, the Omniverse was swept
by a Temporal Reality Wave of unimaginable power,
that literally tore the Continuum to bits and Re-arranged it"

...................................................................................................................

(excerpt from the Official Handbook of the Marvel - Jaspers bio)

"During the Scarlet Witch's 'House of M' Reality Warp,

Jaspers Reformed alive merged with the Fury"

...................................................................................................................

And Who that was doing it:

With the line "No More mutants",

Wanda managed to shift Reality causing cracks across "ALL" Realities.

Allowing the Shadow King to slip back into the 616 universe.

...................................................................................................................

"She changed the World once huh?"

"Yes, ... but She Altered ALL of Reality" ... (not just the world)

...................................................................................................................

So lando, I'll say in imo to not offend others,

"Hyperbole" refers to just statements with no proof of action,
like Phoenix sparking big bangs, yea it's been stated but never seen.

Nah,
cause in Marvel Toaa/god (avatars of writerS/ArtistS)
best depicted in (FF#511) create the stories we read.

So in reality, it's Toaa/god themselves that create those threats,
to make interesting stories, but since they create them, they're always in control,
the Omniverse/Megaverse whatever one believes it is,
is, with a doubt, nothing more than ideas and drawings on a piece of paper,
to Toaa/god portrayed in (FF#511)

Not exactly,
the only power one needs
is Toaa/god developing and drawing a story where you destroy the Omniverse.

And I agree, there is nothing above Toaa/god.

Thanos became whatever Toaa/god would be withIN the Comics they imagine
and draw.

ie. If Toaa/god decided to include themselves in a story with all their glory,
it'd be in the form of THOTI.

Remember, Thanos was still touched by conviction/dilemma/perseverance,
which gave him substance and human-like qualities (burdened with absolute power)

This made the story not only interesting to read,
but it made Thanos more of what Toaa/god is than ever before.

Because after all, Toaa/god (avatars of writer/artist) in FF#511
represents Human beings.

"That's what my creations do, they find the Humanity in God"

...................................................................................................................

As you can see here,
Toaa/god are ignorant about what's gonna happen next
until he (artist) and his collaborator (writer) create it:

Just like Human beings.

It's just a story with words and pictures on a piece of paper to Toaa/god.

They can just as easily draw the Omniverse again with the stroke of a pencil:

"the Wellspring of All Reality"

I hope that was satisfactory good friend. [/B]

Look at all that circular reasoning. Marvel's right because Marvel says Marvel is right.

Face facts, Reality>Marvel's word

It's really not that hard a concept to get. You're using the bible to justify the bible... So if I were to write a comic and get it published that said that a character I made owned the omniverse, suddenly I'd own and have control over the omniverse?

Got any non-comic book information that backs up any of the outlandish claims you've made? so far all you've got is circular reasoning.

i didn't realize MARVEL had to comply with your ideas in works MARVEL owns and writes

Originally posted by 123KID
i didn't realize MARVEL had to comply with your ideas in works MARVEL owns and writes