Lord Vitiate runs the gauntlet.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
I haven't seen Vitiate be the culmination of nearly 1000 years' worth of training, experience, knowledge, wisdom and observation.

Buy this book, if you take interest in TOR era lore: http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-The-Republic-Encyclopedia/dp/0756698391

It is wonderful book with lot of information about ancient era lore of the mythos.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
Palpatine has spent decades studying the most arcane and esoteric Jedi disciplines. It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure.

--Taken from Dark Empire Sourcebook

"There is nothing I do not know. Nothing that is worth knowing, anyway."

In his relentless pursuit of immortality, the Emperor explored the most sinister, uncharted depths of the dark side. (SWTORE, Page 161)

Vitiate's talents haven't been fully disclosed. He packs incredible knowledge of Sith lore and his command of the dark side is amazing. With passage of time, hopefully lot more about him will be revealed.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
Vitiate requires additional aid as well as countless simultaneous deaths, plus an entire ritual.
Not from his own power.

Also, the ritual is a product of Sith Sorcery and this isn't Alchemy. Sith Sorcery involves the power of the dark side of its user and therefore Vitiate's full (natural) power came in to play when he performed that (planet busting) ritual.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I don't know, I haven't played the game. It is an official TV Commercial for the TFU lore.

However, message given is clear-cut that defenseless humans don't stand a chance against the power of the Force. Only a Jedi or Sith can withstand such power through defensive applications of the Force.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No! They got atomized or whatever as well. However, could Revan and Zannah be atomized like that?

🙄

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malgus's brutal campaign nearly ended forever when he suffered a crushing defeat battling Jace Malcom, commander of the elite Havoc Squad, and Satele Shan on Aldeeran. The Empire's greatest surgeons and cyberneticists repaired Malgus's broken body and installed a special breathing apparatus to conceal his ruined face. (SWTORE, Page 169)

For that matter, Plagueis' feat is far better than Malgus'.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
[So the Temple began to self-destruct? Please spare me the idiocy in your responses.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You are comparing apples and oranges here.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Some of those Sith who served him were extraordinarily powerful.

Some examples:

Darth Jadus was so powerful that he could prevent disintegration of his Imperial starship with his power in the Force out in the space while he stood inside it after attempts were made to disintegrate it with planted bombs. Imperial intelligence claims that Jadus's powers are second only to the Emperor but this is disputed; Darth Marr is arguably stronger.

Darth Marr; a master of the dark side; survived on the Dark Council for several decades; became de-factor leader of the Empire in the absence of the Sith Emperor.

This is an indication of Marr's skill and power:

Tales spread through the Republic of the masked Dark Council member who routed armies and deflected assaults more thoroughly than any planetary shield. (SWTORE, Page 174)

Darth Tanaton was supremely strong in the dark side. And even this guy was routed out by the deadly Darth Nox (who harnessed overwhelming power of several consumed Force spirits). I don't know if it is even possible to defeat Darth Nox through conventional means.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Laugh at this:

-----------------------------
-----------------------------

Time to explain a bit about capabilities of HoT (Hero of Tython):

"You harness immense power." (Sith Emperor to HoT)

Defeated following noteworthy opponents in single combat:

[B]01. Bengel Morr (Corrupted)

A powerful Jedi hero; survivor of Sacking of Coruscant event; defeated the battle-hardened Jedi Master Orgus Din in single combat.

02. Sith Lord Tarnis

Son of powerful Darth Angral; skilled swordsman (trained by the EXPERT swordsman Praven) with decent mastery of the Force.

03. Lord Sadic

Noted to be highly powerful before he underwent the Power Gaurd programme, which transformed him from a slight man into a hulking cybernetic giant. Said to be the best of Angrals apprentices even before his upgrade.

04. Sith Lord Praven

EXPERT swordsman; superb warrior; defeated some of the Jedi Order's finest duelists; once blitzed 3 opponents simultaneously with a single attack.

05. The Sand Demon

This thing hunts Krayt Dragons. 😐

Let that set in for a moment. Codex Entry.

06. Lord Nefarid

Its noted that he isn't very powerful in the Force despite the fact that hes pants-shittingly difficult in the game. Still, we see how immensely hard it is to prove yourself worthy of becoming a Sith Lord in the Inquisitor campaign, so he must be pretty good. Also he can become invisible and has a ****ing orbital death laser firing at you throughout the fight, which the Knight dodges several times.

07. Rakata entity (20,000 years old)

Gigantic figure who corrupted individuals around him and possesses supernatural powers.

08. Darth Angral

One of the Empire's most celebrated warlords; very powerful in the Force; master swordsman; decent tactician; commander of Darth Malgus; slaughtered Orgus Din. Lead the Sack of Coruscant, the most significant military attack in Imperial History. This lead to him being offered a place on the Dark Council, but he refused. So even as of Act 1 the Hero defeated a Dark Council-level opponent. After fighting through the Desolator to get to him.

09. Kira Carsen (possessed)

Kira is then possessed by the Emperor and you have to defeat her. While Kira is obviously not as powerful as the Hero, the Emperor is likely the most skilled and knowledgable Force User up to that point in galactic history, plus you'd just fought through a star destroyer and fought a Darth.

10. Pulled down pieces of the ceiling to collapse four tunnels which the Colicoids were using to enter a hospital, despite resistance from several dozen enemies.

.... pretty self-explanatory.

11. Emperor's Wrath

EXPERT swordsman; superb warrior; kill record of Sith and Jedi exceeding 1000. Even the Dark Council is afraid of him.

12. Leehan Narez (Fallen)

One of the strongest Jedi of the Order. Fights along with her droids.

13. Warren Sedoru (Fallen)

One of the strongest Jedi of the Order; survived many near-death situations. Satale Shan credits him as the best infiltrator in the Order, as well as some other shit.

14. Guardsman Lassicar

A member of the Imperial Guard who's defeated 'six Jedi and over two dozen Sith Lords who made the mistake of crossing the Emperor.'

15. Ancient Terentatek

Much bigger than a regular terentatek, this thing was pretty damn big.

16. Lord Fulminiss

One of the greatest Sith Sorcerers in the Empire, who is said to have once disintegrated an entire city with 'a raging storm of pure Force energy.' Was able to drive even Sith Lords and Voss Mystics to gibbering madness and planned to use his power to drive the entire planet Voss insane. Dunno if that makes him a planetary-level Force-User but you have to admit its kind of crazy.

15. The Gormak Guardian

Its ****ing enormous:

The Gormak by its leg is a good 8 feet tall. The Gormak Guardian is telepathic and a manifestation of Sel-Makor, radiating darkside energy and dominating the minds of the Gormak.

16. Blitzed 2 Sith Warriors

For clarity: You come up behind them after they've defeated Jedi Council member Kiwiiks and instead of just killing them from behind the Hero gives them time to react to them by activating their lightsaber, leaping straight over them and then cutting both of them down before they can do anything.

17. Blitzed 2 Sith Warriors (again)

This time they drop down from the ceiling behind the Hero in an ambush yet the Hero is still able to turn around and cut both down with a single slash each.

16. Tol Braga (Fallen)

One of the strongest Jedi of the Order; defeated a Dark Councilor in single combat after several days of fighting. The Hero can also dominate his mind, which is a really damn good feat.

17. Imperial Guard

Elite warriors, 'unmatched in martial skill' and able to contend with Jedi and Sith. The Knight fights through them to get to the Emperor (after already fighting through Kaas City).

13. The Sith Emperor

Avatar of the dark side; supremely powerful in the Force. Fought on a darkside nexus so powerful that conventional weapons don't even work near it.

This is the big one. An amazing feat.

------------

As per SWTORE, HoT handled impossible odds.

------------

List compiled with help of member (Nephthys). [/B]

Throughout the worlds submissive to the Empire, Byss is renowned as a paradise, whose siren call multitudes to willingly apply for emigration to its shores. Once there, wrapped in the power of the dark side, the immigrants become completely submissive, their life energy forever enslaved to the mind that would devour a galaxy.

--Taken from the Dark Empire endnotes

20 Billion+ mind wiped vs something Vitiate did over several weeks, requiring sacrifices and his servants to help him yet still much less..

Palpatine's abilities are all from himself.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
By this logic, should we ignore everything done against non-force users? T3 couldn't defend itself, neither could technobeasts, neither could the durasteel door Revan blew up, neither could the stones Dooku lifted, the list goes on and on and on...

As an example:

Corrupted Jedi hero Bengel Morr overwhelmed Jedi Master Orgus Din in single combat; this Jedi Master had Dooku level Force-mastery.

By the way, T3 have participated in many battles and survived. It did a fine job at defending itself.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
No, but it's a far greater demonstration of power than what either Revan or Zannah have shown.

🙄

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Plagueis was at the point where he only had one attack left, his heart was failing him, paralyzing him and almost making him unconcious.

For that matter, Plagueis' feat is far better than Malgus'

Malgus was also heavily injured and almost died from the cliff-shattering attack unleashed by Satele Shan.

Here is interesting revelation:-

Sidious pivoted to see his Master limp into the room, mouth, chin, and neck concealed behind a breath mask or transpirator of some sort. Most of the vibroblade wounds had healed, but his skin looked especially wan. Sidious had been wondering if Plagueis had been weakened by the attack, but he saw now that, for all the punishment his body had sustained at the hands of the Maladian assassins, the Muun was no less strong in the Force.

"Your thoughts betray you," Plagueis said. "Do you think that Malak's powers were weakened by Revan's lightsaber? Bane by being encrusted in orbalisks? Do you think Gravid's young apprentice was hindered by the prosthesis she was forced to wear after fighting him?"
"No, Master." (Star Wars: Darth Plagueis)

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Prove Vitiate did it or get out of here. If he did, then why the hell didn't he use such powers against Revan? Against Hero of Tython?

Against HoT, what makes you think that Vitiate wasn't attacking him with lethal powers? HoT packs lot of talent of his own; he uses his immense power to restrict Vitiate from unleashing his most potent powers somehow because the Sith Emperor actually can one-shot him to death.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Address the damn argument.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
This is supposedly Yoda's level?

-Have Yoda ever routed whole armies by himself?

-Have Yoda destroyed an entire city by himself?

-Have Yoda actually overwhelmed extremely powerful adversaries in single combat and killed them?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Good but calling them ''EXPERT swordsmen'' or ''SUPERB warrior'' isn't really helping your case.

He have actually subdued EXPERT swordsmen. You think that only PT/OT era characters can be superb duelists?

Emperor's Wrath was EXPERT swordsman; Lord Praven was EXPERT swordsman; and so on...

For example, read about Lord Praven: http://www.swtor-spy.com/codex/lord-praven-knight/1599/

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
Throughout the worlds submissive to the Empire, Byss is renowned as a paradise, whose siren call multitudes to willingly apply for emigration to its shores. Once there, wrapped in the power of the dark side, the immigrants become completely submissive, their life energy forever enslaved to the mind that would devour a galaxy.

--Taken from the Dark Empire endnotes

20 Billion+ mind wiped vs something Vitiate did over several weeks, requiring sacrifices and his servants to help him yet still much less..

Palpatine's abilities are all from himself.

Also, population size doesn't matters against extreme power of the Force. If billions had inhabited Nathema, all of them would have perished.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Except that Plagueis have been stated to be the most powerful Sith Lord (ever). Please don't twist the statements to fit your agenda.

Clearly the latter.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate is definitely superior to Plagueis on the basis of sheer evidence.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So what does it have to do with "strength"?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
A single battledroid? Once again, spare me such idiocy in your arguments.

Emperor's Wrath have cut down over a thousand Jedi and Sith.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You are lying; I have the novel.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Your idiocy have toughed new heights now.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yoda is most powerful Jedi (ever)? You shouldn't be taken seriously instead.

-The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known...

-Revenge of the Sith

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He outwitted him to make his escape both times.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Your knowledge is extremely limited. Learn from my posts.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Of-course, Anakin was expected to become strong given his high affinity with the Force. Sidious expected him to perform; he wasn't an idiot.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Subjective assumption; just because he is an important character of the mythos, doesn't means he can contend with true heavyweights of the mythos. He beat Dooku but he lost to Obi-Wan; he also lost to Shaak Ti in the Jedi Temple.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He (is) considerably more powerful then Dooku.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Heck, Nyriss will WTFpwn Dooku.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I noted it. It doesn't changes a dime.

No sense taking chances; even his Master would agree with that. Lord Sidious could come up with a new plan more easily than a new apprentice.

Both quotes are from Dooku's perspective and happen before they even reach the stairs.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
😂

😂

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
:The assertion makes perfect sense.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You don't have ROTS Novelization perhaps or you haven't read it properly. Mace absolutely matched Sidious's speed and gained upperhand.

He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced;

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is why I am not such a fan of engaging in (pure) feat-wars in my debates. Feats are important to point out but arguments should not be restricted to them only.

As an example:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Corrupted Jedi hero Bengel Morr overwhelmed Jedi Master Orgus Din in single combat; this Jedi Master had Dooku level Force-mastery.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
By the way, T3 have participated in many battles and survived. It did a fine job at defending itself.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Both Revan and Zannah are capable of utterly destroying opponents.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Look! If you want to be taken seriously, you need to drop the habit of using the terms such as "far far better" to promote the feats of characters that you like.

Malgus was also heavily injured and almost died from the cliff-shattering attack unleashed by Satele Shan.

Here is interesting revelation:-

Sidious pivoted to see his Master limp into the room, mouth, chin, and neck concealed behind a breath mask or transpirator of some sort. Most of the vibroblade wounds had healed, but his skin looked especially wan. Sidious had been wondering if Plagueis had been weakened by the attack, but he saw now that, for all the punishment his body had sustained at the hands of the Maladian assassins, the Muun was no less strong in the Force.

"Your thoughts betray you," Plagueis said. "Do you think that Malak's powers were weakened by Revan's lightsaber? Bane by being encrusted in orbalisks? Do you think Gravid's young apprentice was hindered by the prosthesis she was forced to wear after fighting him?"
[B]"No, Master." (Star Wars: Darth Plagueis) [/B]

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Why would he collapse a structure over himself in an attempt to crush his opponents? Also, he attacked Revan several times and gradually increased his ferocity level; a time came when he went all-out against the Jedi Master and would have utterly destroyed him but T3 intervened and the unlucky droid ended-up atomized instead.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Against HoT, what makes you think that Vitiate wasn't attacking him with lethal powers? HoT packs lot of talent of his own; he uses his immense power to restrict Vitiate from unleashing his most potent powers somehow because the Sith Emperor actually can one-shot him to death.

No proof, babe.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What do you think I have been doing? You have totally evaded my question because it shattered your original argument which you attempted to advance in favor of Yoda's supposed supremacy.
Yoda's aircraft moving TK isn't going to help him against a super-strong individual like Vitiate who can very easily blunt its impact. Not even HoT managed to overwhelm Vitiate with his TK abilities and this guy collapsed four tunnels during one of his encounters.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
-You think Yoda have demonstrated the capability to prevent disintegration of a (gigantic) Starship of around Ravager's size?

-Have Yoda ever routed whole armies by himself?

-Have Yoda destroyed an entire city by himself?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
-Have Yoda actually overwhelmed extremely powerful adversaries in single combat and killed them?

QUOTE=14309683]Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You cannot overlook his accomplishments...

He have actually subdued EXPERT swordsmen. You think that only PT/OT era characters can be superb duelists?

Emperor's Wrath was EXPERT swordsman; Lord Praven was EXPERT swordsman; and so on...

For example, read about Lord Praven: http://www.swtor-spy.com/codex/lord-praven-knight/1599/ [/QUOTE]
Lord Praven was an EXPERT swordsman because he killed one of the most famous duelists?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
What makes more sense: For Luceno to retcon Sidious' claim of being the most powerful or for Sidious to surpass Plagueis?

Clearly the latter.

On the basis of available evidence, I believe that Sidious surpassed Plagueis in power but;

-In some aspects in OT era
-In most aspects in DE era

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Nope.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I was just listing his accolades. 😉

"Being a mastermind isn't part of being a strong Sith?"

A strong Sith isn't necessarily a mastermind. Concession accepted regardless.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
How powerful were they?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I'm not.

The fighting was effortless for him now; he let his body handle it without the intervention of his mind. (ROTS novel)

Then he got the upperhand (thanks to his shatterpoint talent):

He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced; in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear. Easily, almost effortlessly, he turned the shadow's fear into a weapon: he angled the battle to bring them both out onto the window ledge. Out in the wind. Out with the lightning. Out on a rain-slicked ledge above a half-kilometer drop. Out where the shadow's fear made it hesitate. Out where the shadow's fear turned some of its Force-powered speed into a Force-powered grip on the slippery permacrete. Out where Mace could flick his blade in one precise arc and slash the shadow's lightsaber in half. One piece flipped back in through the cut-open window. The other tumbled from opening fingers, bounced on the ledge, and fell through the rain toward the distant alleys below. Now the shadow was only Palpatine: old and shrunken, thinning hair bleached white by time and care, face lined with exhaustion.

"For all your power, you are no Jedi. All you are, my lord," Mace said evenly, staring past his blade, "is under arrest."

Mace successfully disarmed Palpatine, as apparent from the above description. I have highlighted the crucial developments for your convenience.

And Palpatine couldn't overwhelm Mace with his lightning either:

Because Vaapad is more than a fighting style. It is a state of mind: a channel for darkness. Power passed into him and out again without touching him. And the circuit completed itself: the lightning reflected back to its source. (ROTS novel)

And the fight eventually reached this point:

Mace turned toward the cringing, beaten Sith Lord. "You can explain the difference after he's dead." (ROTS novel)

Originally posted by Intrepid37
You must see a doctor if you think Mace can take Sidious in a rematch on fair ground.

Even in a so-called fair ground, Sidious couldn't hope to disarm Mace with his martial abilities. The former could try his Sith powers but his lightning didn't work; maybe other powers?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chamber, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two engaged in a spectacular duel—a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides.

-The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known...

-Revenge of the Sith

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Dooku was able to escape because he knew Yoda cares about saving lives.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Proof?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
As it stands, Dooku is above Malak, Revan, Malgus, Nyriss, perhaps Vitiate.

Somebody can claim that Cole Trebor is superior to Dooku but it would be just an opinion.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Point is, Dooku have never subdued Anakin with force attacks despite going all-out all times.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Pre-Suit Darth Vader lost to Kenobi, not Anakin.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
He is more powerful, true, but not neccesarily powers he can use in combat. Force wise, there's not a very big gap if at all.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Proof?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Now it was time to kill.

No sense taking chances; even his Master would agree with that. Lord Sidious could come up with a new plan more easily than a new apprentice.

Both quotes are from Dooku's perspective and happen before they even reach the stairs.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
No attempts for a counter argument? Makes me sad.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
As does mine but you kindly ignore them and then expect me to accept yours as some canon proof?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
He was able to not be outdone by his speed as Dooku was not by Yoda's. Doesn't mean Sidious and Yoda aren't faster than Mace and Dooku.

He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced;

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I agree to an extent, but feats are surely the best way to go, no?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Point?

If these two haven't clashed, it would have been impossible to side with Bengel Morr, because he and Din both were regarded as heroes of the Jedi Order and the latter had feats on his side too.

Such are the complexities of the Star Wars lore; some characters are more explored in the context of talents then others and this makes it very difficult to determine their relative position in terms of strength against each other.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Does surviving battles make it harder to disintegrate? Don't think so.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Not the caliber of Plagueis.

- Zannah's tendrils could dissolve (organic) bodies.

- Revan's raw power reduced a very powerful opponent to a pile of ash. Had their been a defenseless opponent in her place, he or she would have been atomized.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
What, now lifting a lot of rubble is comparable to practically atomizing 18 Maladians?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Oh please. He had numerous chances to destroy Revan had he the power to collapse the Dark Temple

Keep in mind that no bombs were planted in the Dark Temple prior to this encounter. Vitiate actually started collapsing the structure in his effort to prevent HoT from escaping with the intent to crush him under lot of rubble. He actually pointed out to HoT that he will not let him leave alive.

Analogy: Kas'im haven't demonstrated remarkable telekinetic abilities too and yet he was able to withstand the building-shattering power unleashed by Bane.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
So the reason for Vitiate not using such powers is because HoT is powerful enough to undermine them?

No proof, babe.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
How is it not going to help Yoda? Crashing the aircrafts together is a far better feat then disintegrating T3. Vitiate's offensive force powers would make little differences.

Some of the strongest Jedi of the Order (in history) couldn't budge him with their telekinetic abilities; such was his power.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
All these are hard to answer. Yoda's feats isn't the same ''kind'' if you get me.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Overpowering Dooku twice and disarming Sidious isn't good enough?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Lord Praven was an EXPERT swordsman because he killed one of the most famous duelists?

Jedi Master Usma was one of the Order's most famous duelists; and she was slain in a duel of epic proportions by Lord Praven. How do you think a Jedi gains renown/fame as a duelist?

Praven's martial capabilities are considerable.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Luceno believes that Plagueis is better duelist.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Care to elaborate?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You originally made this assertion;

"Being a mastermind isn't part of being a strong Sith?"

A strong Sith isn't necessarily a mastermind. Concession accepted regardless.

You and I differ the meanings of a ''strong Sith''. A strong Sith isn't necessarily a mastermind, but being a mastermind is a part of a strong Sith.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Powerful enough to be regarded as a threat to be eliminated. Emperor's Wrath doesn't kills for amusement.

He dueled Palpatine on equal-footing (thanks to his Vaapad talent):

The fighting was effortless for him now; he let his body handle it without the intervention of his mind. (ROTS novel)

Then he got the upperhand (thanks to his shatterpoint talent):

He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced; in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear. Easily, almost effortlessly, he turned the shadow's fear into a weapon: he angled the battle to bring them both out onto the window ledge. Out in the wind. Out with the lightning. Out on a rain-slicked ledge above a half-kilometer drop. Out where the shadow's fear made it hesitate. Out where the shadow's fear turned some of its Force-powered speed into a Force-powered grip on the slippery permacrete. Out where Mace could flick his blade in one precise arc and slash the shadow's lightsaber in half. One piece flipped back in through the cut-open window. The other tumbled from opening fingers, bounced on the ledge, and fell through the rain toward the distant alleys below. Now the shadow was only Palpatine: old and shrunken, thinning hair bleached white by time and care, face lined with exhaustion.

"For all your power, you are no Jedi. All you are, my lord," Mace said evenly, staring past his blade, "is under arrest."

Mace successfully disarmed Palpatine, as apparent from the above description. I have highlighted the crucial developments for your convenience.

And Palpatine couldn't overwhelm Mace with his lightning either:

Because Vaapad is more than a fighting style. It is a state of mind: a channel for darkness. Power passed into him and out again without touching him. And the circuit completed itself: the lightning reflected back to its source. (ROTS novel)

And the fight eventually reached this point:

Mace turned toward the cringing, beaten Sith Lord. "You can explain the difference after he's dead." (ROTS novel) [/B][/QUOTE]

Now Anakin was at Mace's shoulder. Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face.

Palpatine's eyes glowed with power, casting a yellow glare that burned back the rain from around them. "He is a traitor, Anakin. Destroy him."

"You're the chosen one, Anakin," Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade. "Take him. It's your destiny.'"

Skywalker echoed him faintly. "Destiny ..."

"Help me! I can't hold on any longer!" The yellow glare from Palpatine's eyes spread outward through his flesh. His skin flowed like oil, as though the muscle beneath was burning away, as though even the bones of his skull were softening, were bending and bulging, deforming from the heat and pressure of his electric hatred. "He is killing me, Anakin-! Please, Anaaahhh-"

Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone. "Anakin, he's too strong for me-"

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What is a fair ground? A setting favorable to Sidious?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Even in a so-called fair ground, Sidious couldn't hope to disarm Mace with his martial abilities. The former could try his Sith powers but his lightning didn't work; maybe other powers?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I know! Issue is that these sources precede SWTOR.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
IWhat happened on Vjun?

"Can you feel it dropping? A thorn, a needle, an arrow. Faster all the time." He paused to get his breath. "Obi-Wan and your precious Skywalker and your little Padawans will be wiped out when the missile hits. So what you need to decide is, what means more to you, Master Yoda? Saving their lives-or taking mine?"

-Dark Rendezvous

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malgus? He is actually Dooku's superior

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Dooku's limitation.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Genius, person is the same. In-fact, tapping in to the dark side grants more strength.

But even Sidious hadn't foreseen Anakin's defeat by Obi-Wan Kenobi on Mustafar. Anakin had still been between worlds then, and vulnerable. The failure to defeat his former Master had worked to prolong that vulnerability.

-Rise of Darth Vader

You care clueless; some Sith Lords have served the Emperor who put Dooku to shame (examples already provided) and even these Sith Lords didn't dare to challenge Sith Emperor in combat. [/B][/QUOTE]
You haven't provided any examples of Vitiate putting Dooku to shame.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Haven't you read Revan's novel? She subdued two powerful opponents simultaneously; one was an expert swordsman; the other one was a KoTOR 2 heavyweight. Nyriss's signature power was lethal enough to destroy these opponents and even stronger ones. In-fact, Nyriss was also a practitioner of Sith Sorcery which gives her more advantage against conventional foes.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And yet he acted upon according to the plan he agreed to; he actually removed Obi-Wan from the picture and then lured Anakin to tap in to the dark side.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He didn't employed his Sith powers against Anakin during this duel like he did in his previous duels. Do the math.

Dooku's decades of combat experience are irrelevant. His mastery of swordplay is useless. His vast wealth, his political influence, impeccable breeding, immaculate manners, exquisite taste-the pursuits and points of pride to which he has devoted so much of his time and attention over the long, long years of his life-are now chains hung upon his spirit, bending his neck before the ax.

Even his knowledge of the Force has become a joke.[B]

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
[B]Those assertions are so absurd that they do not warrant a response. Anakin like warriors have confronted Sith Emperor and failed.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yours are mostly filled with misconceptions unfortunately. Your bias is very obvious.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This point has been defeated already. See above.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Orgus Din collapsed a part of a gigantic cave during one of the events on Tython. In contrast, Bengel Morr haven't been shown demonstrating impressive telekinetic abilities like Orgus Din.

If these two haven't clashed, it would have been impossible to side with Bengel Morr, because he and Din both were regarded as heroes of the Jedi Order and the latter had feats on his side too.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No other foe managed to disintegrate it. Ponder over this.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Debatable.

- Zannah's tendrils could dissolve (organic) bodies.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
- Revan's raw power reduced a very powerful opponent to a pile of ash. Had their been a defenseless opponent in her place, he or she would have been atomized.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
These feats are of entirely different nature; one involves telekinetic abilities to lift lot of rubble; the other involves a manifestation of a pure dark side energy which atomized defenseless bodies. In both cases, raw power was involved but the nature of powers unleashed were (are) vastly different.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
His first response was to uproot Revan with a Force push and he succeeded in doing so. It surprises me that why you still are not able to comprehend the fact that Revan packed lot of raw power too and his abilities would have been (logically) considerable too accordingly.

Saying that he didn't use it against Revan because Revan is that good isn't proof - it's just a way for you to overrate Revan and Vitiate at the same time.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Keep in mind that no bombs were planted in the Dark Temple prior to this encounter. Vitiate actually started collapsing the structure in his effort to prevent HoT from escaping with the intent to crush him under lot of rubble. He actually pointed out to HoT that he will not let him leave alive.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Analogy: Kas'im haven't demonstrated remarkable telekinetic abilities too and yet he was able to withstand the building-shattering power unleashed by Bane.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
A major part of this encounter is not scripted so hard to tell. However, several SWTOR players have revealed that the Sith Emperor can actually one-shot HoT to death if not prevented from unleashing his Sith Sorcery during combat.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
By token of this logic, Darth Jadus should have attempted to kill the Sith Emperor. Why didn't he try it?

Some of the strongest Jedi of the Order (in history) couldn't budge him with their telekinetic abilities; such was his power.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Another evasion tactic; concession accepted regardless.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Mace had also disarmed Sidious so Yoda isn't unique in this aspect.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And disarming Dooku shouldn't be a big deal for a Jedi of such strength.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is weird; you are the first one to reject evidence that supports my assertion about Praven being an EXPERT swordsman. Must it be written in a text book to make you believe a (validated) assertion and not the actual deed itself?

Jedi Master Usma was one of the Order's most famous duelists; and she was slain in a duel of epic proportions by Lord Praven. How do you think a Jedi gains renown/fame as a duelist?

Praven's martial capabilities are considerable.

The video has him gethering energy into a sphere before he launches attacks. Prep time he wouldn't have against Sidious' lightning. By the way, most of his feats are from original body.

"Okay, well, this sequence always started out with Mace overpowering Palpatine, and then Palpatine using his powers to try to destroy Mace, and Mace deflecting his rays with his lightsaber. And it always was that Anakin cut the lightsaber out of his hand. But this part where he pretends to lose his power and be weak was something that I added later, 'cause this is, it moved the point where Anakin turns down to this moment right here, and you can see now, that it's very clear that he's, he, he wants him to go on trial so he can pump him for information about how to get these powers."

--Taken from the Revenge of the Sith commentary

If you fail to pay attention to context, this sounds like Lucas said that Mace in fact did defeat Palpatine. However, you need to notice the comment as a whole. Lucas starts off by offering a description on a certain scene, but then he moves on to tell how he fitted details in with one another. But this is the distinction: He describes a sequence of events as the viewer sees them at first, giving a brief background on what sequence in particular he is talking about, but then his focus shifts from what the audience sees to what the characters' intentions are and what they experience and think. So from the context of simply a perceivable sequence, no, this does not constitute proof that Lucas stated that Mace did really defeat Palpatine.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Intrepid37

But even Sidious hadn't foreseen Anakin's defeat by Obi-Wan Kenobi on Mustafar. Anakin had still been between worlds then, and vulnerable. The failure to defeat his former Master had worked to prolong that vulnerability.

-Rise of Darth Vader

That's a useful quote 👆

I'm a useful guy.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
He can only talk of the versions in the book he made in which he supports my logic.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Plagueis' disintegration feat outshines Vitiate's,

Originally posted by Intrepid37
his speed is far higher,

Originally posted by Intrepid37
he is far stronger

Originally posted by Intrepid37
and is a far more skilled duelist.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
The only thing that Vitiate edges is lightning.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
😐

You and I differ the meanings of a ''strong Sith''. A strong Sith isn't necessarily a mastermind, but being a mastermind is a part of a strong Sith.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
As was Maul but that didn't matter.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Now Anakin was at Mace's shoulder. Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face.

Palpatine's eyes glowed with power, casting a yellow glare that burned back the rain from around them. "He is a traitor, Anakin. Destroy him."

"You're the chosen one, Anakin," Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade. "Take him. It's your destiny.'"

Skywalker echoed him faintly. "Destiny ..."

"Help me! I can't hold on any longer!" The yellow glare from Palpatine's eyes spread outward through his flesh. His skin flowed like oil, as though the muscle beneath was burning away, as though even the bones of his skull were softening, were bending and bulging, deforming from the heat and pressure of his electric hatred. "He is killing me, Anakin-! Please, Anaaahhh-"

Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone. "Anakin, he's too strong for me-"

You are also overlooking that the fact the movie depicts the same fight differently, so which source should I accept?

And movie's depiction has more canonical support:

Palpatine killed Master Windu's companions and battled the Jedi Master, who soon gained the upper hand. Just as Windu was ready to slay Palpatine, Anakin Skywalker intervened and cut off Windu's lightsaber hand. This gave Palpatine the opportunity to blast Windu with Force lightning, sending him out a window to his death. (SWTCE)

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Mace was forced back the entire fight until he gained an advantage through Shatterpoint. The Shatterpoint was Anakin's fear, and Anakin's fear will not be there in a rematch.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Sidious is a superior duelist and a far better telekinetic. Mace would stand no chance.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
TOR does nothing to retcon it.

As pointed out before, in this book: http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Readers-Companion-Star-Wars/dp/0345511190 - TOR era lore (some part) along with Plagueis's lore have made an entry and neither Sidious and nor Yoda have been reaffirmed as being the most powerful individuals within their respective Orders in history.

You should be open to new possibilities in the light of continuous expansion of Star Wars mythos; new books can render older ones obsolete.

It remains to be seen how characters will be portrayed in the upcoming Essential series book "The Essential Characters" which will be released in 2014.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Dooku shot a quick glance at the red button on his desk and, with a Force push, he punched it in. Yoda cocked his head.

"A choice made, have you, Count?"

"I notice I am no longer your apprentice," Dooku said between breaths. "There was always a chance you could overpower me, of course."

Yoda attacked: Dooku parried.

"So I put a missile in high orbit, slaved to this location. It's falling now. Gathering speed."

Dooku stepped warily back to the open window casement.

"Can you feel it dropping? A thorn, a needle, an arrow. Faster all the time." He paused to get his breath. "Obi-Wan and your precious Skywalker and your little Padawans will be wiped out when the missile hits. So what you need to decide is, what means more to you, Master Yoda? Saving their lives-or taking mine?"

-Dark Rendezvous

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Nope.

Malgus have tanked direct SLM hit; tolerated extremely potent cliff-shattering power; prevented tons of rubble from crushing him beneath and blew it apart with his power in the Force; tolerated lightsaber inflicted injuries; achieved oneness with the dark side; destroyed a very powerful opponent with his FLS; impaled extremely skilled lightsaber duelists; recognized as one of the strongest predecessors of Sidious; disarmed Satele Shan; killed a powerful Sith Lord with bare hands and more....

Dude, you would be really foolish to argue against such information.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Nope. His telekinetic feats talk for themselves, as does his ragdolling of Kenobi and Ventress.

In addition, Ventress and Obi-Wan are mediocre in terms of power in the Force.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
It is made clear that he was weaker then.

But even Sidious hadn't foreseen Anakin's defeat by Obi-Wan Kenobi on Mustafar. Anakin had still been between worlds then, and vulnerable. The failure to defeat his former Master had worked to prolong that vulnerability.

-Rise of Darth Vader

When Anakin sees Obi-Wan emerge from Padmé’s vessel, he is consumed by jealousy. He reaches out with the Force and telekinetically chokes Padmé. Obi-Wan engages Anakin in a fierce lightsaber duel, defeating his former apprentice by amputating his legs and remaining arm. Anakin’s ruined body bursts into flames amid the fires of Mustafar. Obi-Wan leaves the planet with an ailing Padmé. (SW: TERC, 2012)

When you cite an information to support your argument, make sure that it is not contradicted by other canonical sources.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
You haven't provided any examples of Vitiate putting Dooku to shame.

With Grand Master Satele Shan's support, Master Braga assembles a strike team of the strongest and most resolute Jedi in the Order. Their goal is to pinpoint the Emperor's hidden fortress, capture the Sith leader alive, and turn him to the light side. The Jedi do not realize that they have underestimated the true extent of the Emperor's power. It is an error that will cost them dearly. (SWTORE, Page 89)

The plan to invade the Emperor's fortress succeeds beyond Master Braga's greatest ambitions. However, the Jedi find more than they bargained for when they finally confront the Sith leader in his lair. The Emperor is more than a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga and their fellow Jedi, twisting them to the dark side.[/I] (SWTORE, Page 92)

4 of the strongest Jedi is lot of firepower to handle simultaneously.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Dooku hasn't subdued expert swordsmen? 😐

Dooku outclassed Ventress though. He have demonstrated the capability to handle multiple opponents simultaneously but he lacks the ferocity of Nyriss.

Nyriss's combat performance is much more impressive; she outclassed her opponents in such a fashion that it was not even funny.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
It doesn't matter what he agreed to when he changed his mind mid-duel.

Dooku's decades of combat experience are irrelevant. His mastery of swordplay is useless. His vast wealth, his political influence, impeccable breeding, immaculate manners, exquisite taste-the pursuits and points of pride to which he has devoted so much of his time and attention over the long, long years of his life-are now chains hung upon his spirit, bending his neck before the ax.

[B]Even his knowledge of the Force has become a joke.[B]

Yes, once the two clashed in a lightsaber duel after Obi-Wan was knocked out, the fight took a serious turn and Dooku but then Dooku was assured by Palpatine that he would intervene if he looses. Dooku got played actually.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
If so, you could have ended this debate long ago by proving it.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Which is why you have an apparant history of extreme bias, right?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
It hasn't.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
If Bengel Morr won over Orgus Din, he's better (unless it was circumstancial, of course).

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Because they hadn't the power to disintegrate.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Her socery is unique. Without it she'd kinda suck.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
If you refer to Nyriss' lightning, it is made very explicit it was her own power, not Revan's.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Disintegration is an extreme power. Vitiate, Bane, Plagueis and Marek per few have done it. Obviously more impressive than the telekinetic feat done by Malgus.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
😐

Saying that he didn't use it against Revan because Revan is that good isn't proof - it's just a way for you to overrate Revan and Vitiate at the same time.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Sorry bud, but no proof has been provided. Vitiate saying that ''if he dies, everything must die with him'' and then Scourge saying that ''the temple is coming apart'' is not proof Vitiate collapsed it.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Bane didn't actually collapse it, it imploded as made clear in the text.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
If it's so hard to tell don't try to defend the point.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
You assume far too much. Let's work with what we've got which is Vitiate's disintegration and Yoda's telekinetic display.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Not really. Provide the examples.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Mace's victory was circumstancial.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Except Dooku has accolades such as being one of the strongest Jedi in the twentyfivethousand year history of the Order and an even greater Lord of the Sith, yet was overpowered when amped.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Again, this is far from enough. Agen Kolar curbstomped Quinlan Vos and has been noted to be ''among the greatest bladesbeing ever produced by the Order'' but if I'd say he'd beat Jedi Master Usma you'd act as if you were on your period.

Don't fret too much over accolades awarded to characters in ROTS novel. They represent internal viewpoints.

Some revelation for you:

THOUGH THE EPISODE III adult novelization by Matthew Stover follows the Episodes I and II precedent of adding new scenes, its greatest additions to the screenplay are extensive internal viewpoints exploring the psychological underpinnings to character actions. (SW: TERC, 2012)

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You are speculating...

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
T3 is more durable then a human.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You keep on bringing speed factor; do you know anything about Vitiate's speed?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Prove it.

Others Plagueis felled with his hands by snapping necks and putting his fists through armored torsos.

In blinding motion his hands and feet smashed skulls and windpipes.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate have defeated very skilled duelists in single combat.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
- Ability to create illusions?
- Ability to break powerful opponents with mental powers?
- Telekinetic abilities considerable enough to collapse buildings?
- Sith sorcery?

Plagueis understood, too, that there were no powers beyond his reach; none he couldn't master through an effort of will. If a Sith of equal power had preceded him, then that one had taken his or her secrets to the grave, or had locked them away in holocrons that had been destroyed or had yet to surface.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And Vitiate is a mastermind too.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What is your point?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And Mace managed to hold...

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You are also overlooking that the fact the movie depicts the same fight differently, so which source should I accept?

And movie's depiction has more canonical support:

Palpatine killed Master Windu's companions and battled the Jedi Master, who soon gained the upper hand. Just as Windu was ready to slay Palpatine, Anakin Skywalker intervened and cut off Windu's lightsaber hand. This gave Palpatine the opportunity to blast Windu with Force lightning, sending him out a window to his death. (SWTCE)

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
See above.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Look! I personally don't buy the notion that Mace Windu is unstoppable or something like that. It would be possible to overwhelm Mace Windu in ways not explored in the ROTS movie. However, dismissing Windu's performance and talents isn't going to help your argument.

Mace was forced back on the defensive the whole time until he gained an advantage he wouldn't gain in a rematch. His feat is really no better than Dooku holding his own against Yoda.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What makes you think that TOR era lore is not going to change things?

As pointed out before, in this book: http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Readers-Companion-Star-Wars/dp/0345511190 - TOR era lore (some part) along with Plagueis's lore have made an entry and neither Sidious and nor Yoda have been reaffirmed as being the most powerful individuals within their respective Orders in history.

You should be open to new possibilities in the light of continuous expansion of Star Wars mythos; new books can render older ones obsolete.

It remains to be seen how characters will be portrayed in the upcoming Essential series book "The Essential Characters" which will be released in 2014.

Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Thanks for the information.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I expected this response from you.

Malgus have tanked direct SLM hit; tolerated extremely potent cliff-shattering power; prevented tons of rubble from crushing him beneath and blew it apart with his power in the Force; tolerated lightsaber inflicted injuries; achieved oneness with the dark side; destroyed a very powerful opponent with his FLS; impaled extremely skilled lightsaber duelists; recognized as one of the strongest predecessors of Sidious; disarmed Satele Shan; killed a powerful Sith Lord with bare hands and more....

Dude, you would be really foolish to argue against such information.

I know what he's capable of and he's not capable of taking down Dooku more times than not.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Dooku overwhelmed Anakin with his telekinetic abilities on Tatooine; he overwhelmed Anakin with his lightning on Naboo; he choked Anakin much in the same way as he did to Obi-Wan on Invisible Hand but since he was to follow the plan, he chose to incapacitate Obi-Wan instead. So I don't understand the reason to exaggerate capabilities of Anakin...

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
In addition, Ventress and Obi-Wan are mediocre in terms of power in the Force.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vulnerable in what sense? ROTS Novel doesn't gives the impression that Vader was weaker at the time he confronted Obi-Wan; neither does the movie. He wasn't injured or something. He was rather angry and Sith Lords use emotions to fuel their power.

When Anakin sees Obi-Wan emerge from Padmé’s vessel, he is consumed by jealousy. He reaches out with the Force and telekinetically chokes Padmé. Obi-Wan engages Anakin in a fierce lightsaber duel, defeating his former apprentice by amputating his legs and remaining arm. Anakin’s ruined body bursts into flames amid the fires of Mustafar. Obi-Wan leaves the planet with an ailing Padmé. (SW: TERC, 2012)

When you cite an information to support your argument, make sure that it is not contradicted by other canonical sources.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
🙄

With Grand Master Satele Shan's support, Master Braga assembles a strike team of the strongest and most resolute Jedi in the Order. Their goal is to pinpoint the Emperor's hidden fortress, capture the Sith leader alive, and turn him to the light side. The Jedi do not realize that they have underestimated the true extent of the Emperor's power. It is an error that will cost them dearly. (SWTORE, Page 89)

The plan to invade the Emperor's fortress succeeds beyond Master Braga's greatest ambitions. However, the Jedi find more than they bargained for when they finally confront the Sith leader in his lair. The Emperor is more than a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga and their fellow Jedi, twisting them to the dark side.[/I] (SWTORE, Page 92)

4 of the strongest Jedi is lot of firepower to handle simultaneously. [/B][/QUOTE]
Prove the Jedi were on Dooku's level.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
- He couldn't subdue Yoda in a lightsaber duel

There's really no shame in that.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
- He couldn't subdue Obi-Wan in a lightsaber duel when the latter became a master swordsman

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
- He couldn't subdue Anakin in a lightsaber duel when the latter became a master swordman

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
- Savage disarmed Dooku once

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Dooku outclassed Ventress though. He have demonstrated the capability to handle multiple opponents simultaneously but he lacks the ferocity of Nyriss.

Nyriss's combat performance is much more impressive; she outclassed her opponents in such a fashion that it was not even funny.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He had the chance to incapacitate Anakin early on but didn't because he followed the plan.

Yes, once the two clashed in a lightsaber duel after Obi-Wan was knocked out, the fight took a serious turn and Dooku but then Dooku was assured by Palpatine that he would intervene if he looses. Dooku got played actually.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Once again, what do you know about Vitiate's speed?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No, I am objective and only PT/OT era fans declare me as biased because I do not blindly adhere to their perceptions.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Covered above.