Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Someone's a littleobsessed*COUGH*desperate for victory*HACKING COUGH* competitive.
SO you're admitting that I haven't made any ridiculous assumptions and you're just typing. I'm just wondering, what "victory" am I obsessed about? Do you even know what this debate is about or are you nutriding?
And obsessive? Obsessive is bitching and moaning, and then bringing in reinforcements to overcompensate for self esteem issues.
You argued that Maul can't be by far superior in comparison to Obi-Wan, when the latter basically admits this by stating that, even when utilizing his anger against the Sith Lord, he was just exhausting himself while Maul was getting stronger. This makes it pretty clear that Maul was by far superior to Kenobi.
After admiting you were wrong there, you just have to re-evaluate the strength of Mighella, who obviously is a better combatant than you gave her credit for. Considering the fact that she managed to hold Maul up for a nice period of time via saber combat (until her inferior weapon was destroyed by prolonged contact with a lightsaber - which hints that the fight wasn't short). And with her force lightning, a force attack that TPM Kenobi, to our knowledge, has no defense against, unless you want to suggest that his Dark Side knowledge equals that of Darth Maul.
Originally posted by Eminence
Wait.Nai?
Lucien?
Nemesis?
Exodus?
Sorgo?!
This is like, my entire ****ing antisocial failed-forum-visiting nutriding self hating pseudointellectual posse of global rejects and trolls. My self esteem must be like...
I don't even know.
Wait which one of these people aside from Nai defended you? Oh that's right, just Nai. Wtf is Exodus? Damn that delusional problem must be at an all time high.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
First off, even if I DID argue that, where is my argument that Maul isn't superior to Obiwan? For your sake I'm not going to repost your own accusations because they are contradictory and make you look bad. And after what you just wrote, how does that mean Maul was far superior? And my contention was ONLY that Obiwan MORE than held his own against Maul, which is validated by the actual fight scene.
Firstly: You have argued that Obi-Wan defeating Maul "was no fluke". This is saying that Obi-Wan defeated Maul fair and square, or at least implying that a duel between them could always go either way. Hell...you even said that Kenobi's victory had nothing to do with the present circumstances. So how about admitting that you were wrong?
Secondly: The original fight scene shows Kenobi disarmed and hanging over a bottomless pit less than 40 seconds after exchanging the first blow with the Sith Lord. In any other situation, this duel would have been over right there. Is this Kenobi "more than holding his own against Maul"? An interpretation, that - let me just point it out - ignores any other source on the issue (including Kenobi's own words), and is pretty twisted considering the fact that, you know, Kenobi was defeated in less than a minute.
I'm surprised you're being so civil. Absinthe? And I'm not saying Mighella is a push over, I'm saying that Obiwan faired a hell of a lot better than she did against Maul.
How do you conclude, that Kenobi performed better than Mighella? You don't know how long Maul's duel with Mighella lasted, but considering that it was long enough to have her Darksaber be destroyed by prolonged exposure to the lightsaber, one could guess, that it lasted longer than Kenobi's little 1vs1 with Maul. Which only lasted that long because Obi-Wan was utilizing his anger. An advantage that isn't present here...
So, face it: It's entirely possible that Mighella performed better against Maul than Kenobi, and even if that shouldn't be the case, she still has force abilities at her disposal that Kenobi, for all we know, has no defense against. Which means that, even if one suggests that Mighella is a lesser swordsbeing than Padawan Kenobi (argueable), she is still the superior force user, when offensive force abilities are concerned.
Wtf is Exodus?
It pains me that you can't even remember my name. Oh, such pain!
This is like, my entire ****ing antisocial failed-forum-visiting nutriding self hating pseudointellectual posse of global rejects and trolls. My self esteem must be like...
Hey! Your in my posse, not the other way around! 😠
Originally posted by Borbarad
Firstly: You have argued that Obi-Wan defeating Maul "was no fluke". This is saying that Obi-Wan defeated Maul fair and square, or at least implying that a duel between them could always go either way. Hell...you even said that Kenobi's victory had nothing to do with the present circumstances. So how about admitting that you were wrong?
Secondly: The original fight scene shows Kenobi disarmed and hanging over a bottomless pit less than 40 seconds after exchanging the first blow with the Sith Lord. In any other situation, this duel would have been over right there. Is this Kenobi "more than holding his own against Maul"? An interpretation, that - let me just point it out - ignores any other source on the issue (including Kenobi's own words), and is pretty twisted considering the fact that, you know, Kenobi was defeated in less than a minute.
How do you conclude, that Kenobi performed better than Mighella? You don't know how long Maul's duel with Mighella lasted, but considering that it was long enough to have her Darksaber be destroyed by prolonged exposure to the lightsaber, one could guess, that it lasted longer than Kenobi's little 1vs1 with Maul. Which only lasted that long because Obi-Wan was utilizing his anger. An advantage that isn't present here...
So, face it: It's entirely possible that Mighella performed better against Maul than Kenobi, and even if that shouldn't be the case, she still has force abilities at her disposal that Kenobi, for all we know, has no defense against. Which means that, even if one suggests that Mighella is a lesser swordsbeing than Padawan Kenobi (argueable), she is still the superior force user, when offensive force abilities are concerned.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
How was it a fluke exactly? Explain how Maul's arrogance constitutes as a fluke please. if I gave an impression that Obiwan was superior to Maul in any way then I apologize. My only contention(I thought), was that an enraged Obiwan held his own, lost his ground with a force maneuver, and won because Maul got arrogant.
Get yourself a dictionary (yes...this is a guy from Germany telling you to do so) and look up the word "fluke". What you may find is:
fluke [flook] - noun
1. an accidental advantage; stroke of good luck: He got the job by a fluke.
Do I really have to point out Kenobi's "lucky moments" again? Okay.
a) Instead of landing on solid ground disarmed, which would have resulted in a dead Jedi moments later, Kenobi drops into the nice pit, giving Maul the chance to play macho man instead of getting rid of his opponent.
b) He manages to grap on an input nozzle which was, lucky him, deactivated. Otherwise he would have been blown down the shaft, atomized or whatever, depending on what kind of stuff they did insert through said nozzle.
c) He, luckily, has the weapon of his master lying on the spot right next to him, which he then utilized to kill his opponent who - rightly - assumed that Kenobi was disarmed.
Now, let me make it pretty clear: If one of that componets weren't there [and every single one of them amounts to one instance of luck on Kenobi's side], the young padawan would have died. So, sorry to tell you: It was a fluke, that he managed to kill Maul.
The next thing is, that I don't get how you can stick to your idea that Kenobi was "holding his own" when Kenobi himself tells us that, in that 30 seconds of fighting Maul, despite using his anger, he was exhausting himself, while Maul just became stronger. I will make this one clear to you too: If Kenobi had not used his anger - which is obviously not present in every situation - Maul would possible have overwhelmed him even faster.
The same fight scene shows Obiwan attacking Maul, then defending, then breaking his lightsaber, forcing him to the ground, getting kicked by Maul and landing on his feet, and driving Maul back, where Maul decides to use the force.
I don't give a flying ducky about your interpretation of the fight, when I have the words of the Kenobi himself on the issue, who states that he was definitely losing the fight even in that situation.
could you post the scans of the fight scene with Mighella? My memory is hazy. I had the comic a few months ago.
I have known already that you are fairly stupid, even by troll-standards. But you didn't just ask the guy that you called, I quote, a "fool" and "not so bright" because he asserted, that you - basically - have no access to original SW sources, to provide source material for you? No. Even you can't be that freaking stupid.
Furthermore: If your memory is "hazy", you may want to tell us, how you arrived at the conclusion that Obi-Wan performed far better than Mighella, without remembering the duel between Mighella and Maul. Was that one of this great Darth Sexy ideas, or did you just want to proof my "baseless assertion" that you have no idea what you're talking about?
But before you drop down dead, burried under that pile of ownage, I will just provide some scans for you. First we have two pages of actual fighting happen. Both attack, both defend, Maghilla dodges some attacks. Then this here follows:
Maul cuts her weapon in two [so the duel could have lasted even longer, if she had been using a lightsaber], she manages to recover from being disarmed with a barrage of force lightning, that puts Maul, who comes flying at her, on his knees for a brief time period, before he overcomes the lightning and kills her. This can be seen here:
As you may notice, her lasts words are: "How can you resist? I know. I know what you must be." So she actually wonders how a single being in the Galaxy [which is filled with Jedi, in case one did forget] can resist a force lightning attack and, within seconds and facing her own demise, recognizes that Maul must be a Sith Lord.
She still, even after being disarmed managed to put Maul on his knees, while - in case you don't recall - Kenobi after being disarmed luckily found himself hanging just above a reactor shaft, on an inactive input nozzle. So...urm...who did perform better against Maul again?
What force abilities Nai? Other than force lightning, what have we seen? And can she compete with Obiwan in saber combat? And of course she has more offensive force maneuvers. She uses the dark side.
Stop dodging the issue or stop posting, Sexy. I've pointed out thrice now, that force lightning alone could be enough to deal with Kenobi, considering that we've seen Jedi Masters utterly failing against this ability. You didn't answer the point. Try again.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Get yourself a dictionary (yes...this is a guy from Germany telling you to do so) and look up the word "fluke". What you may find is:fluke [flook] - noun
1. an accidental advantage; stroke of good luck: He got the job by a fluke.Do I really have to point out Kenobi's "lucky moments" again? Okay.
a) Instead of landing on solid ground disarmed, which would have resulted in a dead Jedi moments later, Kenobi drops into the nice pit, giving Maul the chance to play macho man instead of getting rid of his opponent.
b) He manages to grap on an input nozzle which was, lucky him, deactivated. Otherwise he would have been blown down the shaft, atomized or whatever, depending on what kind of stuff they did insert through said nozzle.
c) He, luckily, has the weapon of his master lying on the spot right next to him, which he then utilized to kill his opponent who - rightly - assumed that Kenobi was disarmed.
Now, let me make it pretty clear: If one of that componets weren't there [and every single one of them amounts to one instance of luck on Kenobi's side], the young padawan would have died. So, sorry to tell you: It was a fluke, that he managed to kill Maul.
The next thing is, that I don't get how you can stick to your idea that Kenobi was "holding his own" when Kenobi himself tells us that, in that 30 seconds of fighting Maul, despite using his anger, he was exhausting himself, while Maul just became stronger. I will make this one clear to you too: If Kenobi had not used his anger - which is obviously not present in every situation - Maul would possible have overwhelmed him even faster
I don't give a flying ducky about your interpretation of the fight, when I have the words of the Kenobi/i] on the issue, who states that he [i]was definitely losing the fight even in that situation.
I have known already that you are fairly stupid, even by troll-standards. But you didn't just ask the guy that you called, I quote, a "fool" and "not so bright" because he asserted, that you - basically - have no access to original SW sources, to provide source material for you? No. Even you can't be that freaking stupid.
Furthermore: If your memory is "hazy", you may want to tell us, how you arrived at the conclusion that Obi-Wan performed far better than Mighella, without remembering the duel between Mighella and Maul. Was that one of this great Darth Sexy ideas, or did you just want to proof my "baseless assertion" that you have no idea what you're talking about?
But before you drop down dead, burried under that pile of ownage, I will just provide some scans for you. First we have two pages of actual fighting happen. Both attack, both defend, Maghilla dodges some attacks. Then this here follows:
Click MeMaul cuts her weapon in two [so the duel could have lasted even longer, if she had been using a lightsaber], she manages to recover from being disarmed with a barrage of force lightning, that puts Maul, who comes flying at her, on his knees for a brief time period, before he overcomes the lightning and kills her. This can be seen here:
As you may notice, her lasts words are: "How can you resist? I know. I know what you must be." So she actually wonders how a single being in the Galaxy [which is filled with Jedi, in case one did forget] can resist a force lightning attack and, within seconds and facing her own demise, recognizes that Maul must be a Sith Lord.
She still, even after being disarmed managed to put Maul on his knees, while - in case you don't recall - Kenobi after being disarmed luckily found himself hanging just above a reactor shaft, on an inactive input nozzle. So...urm...who did perform better against Maul again?
Stop dodging the issue or stop posting, Sexy. I've pointed out thrice now, that force lightning alone could be enough to deal with Kenobi, considering that we've seen Jedi Masters utterly failing against this ability. You didn't answer the point. Try again.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
No Nai, a fluke would be Maul throwing Kenobi into that pit as he holds on, then tripping over himself and falling to his death through the pit. Maul's character weaknesses such as arrogance don't constitute a fluke, because as an arrogant badass, he would do the same in another situation. Kenobi was FORTUNATE enough to have held on, you are correct, but he won because Maul got arrogant, and he capitalized on it. How you perceive character weaknesses as flukes, I don't understand.
I can't belive that you are that dense, Sexy. The fluke is present because of all the circumstances which put Kenobi in the position to capitalize on Maul's "character weakness" at all. He wouldn't have been able to do so, while getting chopped into pieces by the Sith Lord or while falling down that nice pit - or without a second weapon that certainly came in handy. This is why the entire situation is a fluke. That you can't either accept or comprehend that, is not my problem. I won't waste any more time with another attempt to explain it to you. Debate over - you lose. Period.
How I stick to my idea? Aren't you one of the ones (Janus and Faunus included), who always argue in favor of video over quotes? Strange that you don't in this case. I stick to my idea because it's what the fight shows, unless we're watching a different fight. I also don't put much faith in quotes because one quote says Maul was getting stronger while the duo was getting weaker, while in JvS Obiwan claims Maul sensed his demise and had to separate the duo. And for the millionth time I am NOT arguing Obiwan is on Maul's level. I have conceded on several occasions the idea that Obiwan only did so well because he was enraged and if he was in a peaceful state, he would have been defeated pretty badly.
No, Sexy. I argue in favor for primary source material over secondary source material, when both require an interpretation or the second is an interpretation of the first. You realize that this is not the case, when one of the combatants tells us how a certain fight went according to his view, right?
So while I would grant you the right to question the interpretation of the duel present in the TPM novel [or any other interpretation of said fight], to question the words of a fighter in regards to his own ability to win is absolute nonsense. Kenobi tells us that he was royally owned anyways and just able to stay a live for 30 seconds because of his anger.
And sorry, Sexy. You can't, apparently, even keep your own arguments consistant. You have taken the instance in which Kenobi is enraged (advantage for him) compared that to your "hazy" memory of the fight between Mighella and Maul, and then jumped to the conclusion that "Kenobi would win this rather easily". If you had "conceeded" that Obi-Wan would just have been owned faster by Maul without being enraged, none of your arguments does make any sense.
As usual Nai, you pick and choose what sources you agree with. Unfortunately, if my interpretation is correct, then the movie contradicts the in universe admission(you love arguing sources), because it showed Obiwan holding his own.
You're are trying to argue against Kenobi's words regarding his own skill with your personal interpretation of a fight. Kenobi tells us, that he was getting owned and you drop in and tell us "Urm. No. He did rather well." Sorry, Sexy. This doesn't make any sense. Especially not, when we consider how fast that fight ended - with Kenobi being disarmed and, essentially defeated.
No, your baseless assertions is that I don't have ANY source material(pathetic even for you). If you were smart(you're not), you would have said I don't have ALL the source material which I would gladly concede. My statement was that I had the source material and vaguely remember the fight between them, so if I was wrong about it you could have always corrected me, rather than attempting to insult me without any success.
If you were smart, Sexy, you would know what hyperbole is, and don't waste your already limited amount of brain cells to point out again and again, how wrong that "assertion" was. If you were smart, and you aren't, you could simply post one picture showing the piles of SW sources present in the cupboard under the stairs the carbage bin you live in your dorm room your luxurios penthouse, instead of asking me to prove a negative. That you don't do this, actually just furthers the idea that my "assertion" was not entirely wrong and it makes you look like an ass-clown.
Ah yes, ownage. This is what you usually imply when you don't have anything intelligent to add and you MUST convince yourself of some kind of victory. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad and happened so often. But I'll indulge your delusions some more.
Sexy. You realize that everyone here did acknowledge my victory over you, including Lightsnake, which alone should make your think...
So much for the "delusions".
I've never denied her using offensive force maneuvers(dark side), while Kenobi didn't. I also didn't deny she was a better force user than Kenobi, She put Maul on his ass, Obiwan put Maul on his ass.
Thanks for conceeding the point.
Possibly, force lightning could do the trick. Then again, Kenobi's saber could also do the trick.
Wow. From "Kenobi wins this easily" to "possible force lightning does the trick and Mighella wins". But I'm glad that you weren't wrong and didn't lose the debate. Anything else to say?
NaiChild, please. You're just riding my nuts. 🙄
You realize that everyone hear did acknowledge my victory over your
The IgnoredI must have missed each and every one of them.
I have conceded on several occasions the idea that Obiwan only did so well because he was enraged and if he was in a peaceful state, he would have been defeated pretty badly.
*cue*
Originally posted by Eminence
Child, please. You're just riding my nuts. 🙄I must have missed each and every one of them.*cue*
And the actual fight(since you are one of the people who would take an actual scene over quotes) confirms an angry Obiwan pushing Maul back. I'm not debating whether or not Maul would win had the fight been extended, that much is obvious. What I am contending is Obiwan more than held his own.
Originally posted by Borbarad
I can't belive that you are that dense, Sexy. The fluke is present because of all the circumstances which put Kenobi in the position to capitalize on Maul's "character weakness" at all. He wouldn't have been able to do so, while getting chopped into pieces by the Sith Lord or while falling down that nice pit - or without a second weapon that certainly came in handy. This is why the entire situation is a fluke. That you can't either accept or comprehend that, is not my problem. I won't waste any more time with another attempt to explain it to you. Debate over - you lose. Period.
No, Sexy. I argue in favor for primary source material over secondary source material, when both require an interpretation or the second is an interpretation of the first. You realize that this is not the case, when one of the combatants tells us how a certain fight went according to his view, right?So while I would grant you the right to question the interpretation of the duel present in the TPM novel [or any other interpretation of said fight], to question the words of a fighter in regards to his own ability to win is absolute nonsense. Kenobi tells us that he was royally owned anyways and just able to stay a live for 30 seconds because of his anger.
And sorry, Sexy. You can't, apparently, even keep your own arguments consistant. You have taken the instance in which Kenobi is enraged (advantage for him) compared that to your "hazy" memory of the fight between Mighella and Maul, and then jumped to the conclusion that "Kenobi would win this rather easily". If you had "conceeded" that Obi-Wan would just have been owned faster by Maul without being enraged, none of your arguments does make any sense.
This "circumstance", meaning he went on the offensive and capitalized on Maul's arrogance. His victory was no fluke. And Maul's fight with Mighella was hilarious. Kenobi would win this rather easily.
If you were smart, Sexy, you would know what hyperbole is, and don't waste your already limited amount of brain cells to point out again and again, how wrong that "assertion" was. If you were smart, and you aren't, you could simply post one picture showing the piles of SW sources present inthe cupboard under the stairsthe carbage bin you live inyour dorm roomyour luxurios penthouse, instead of asking me to prove a negative. That you don't do this, actually just furthers the idea that my "assertion" was not entirely wrong and it makes you look like an ass-clown.
Sexy. You realize that everyone here did acknowledge my victory over you, including Lightsnake, which alone should make your think...
So much for the "delusions".
Wow. From "Kenobi wins this easily" to "possible force lightning does the trick and Mighella wins". But I'm glad that you weren't wrong and didn't lose the debate. Anything else to say?
The fact that I can admit when I'm wrong and the fact that you look a helpless retard when you can't. I'll be waiting for the proof that I have no source materials.
*Cue troll and sock name calling*
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
In that case, ANYTIME a character gets arrogant and loses, it's a fluke, right Nai?
As I said: I won't waste time explaining it to you again.
My contention that Obiwan would easily defeat Mighella was premature, I admit that. But the contention that he WOULD beat her is based on him pushing Maul back in a saber duel, while apparently Mighella did something of the sort with the force. Naturally now I have to concede the fact that Mighella has more force maneuvers, but it also appears that Obiwan can win in a saber duel.
🙄
So you use a unique state Kenobi was in (read: "enraged"😉, and your interpretation of his performance which does contradict Kenobi's own words as basis for your assertions? And you really think that the result of this kind of "reasoning" will be accurate?
Well Nai, you've easily once again proven that you're dumb beyond belief, seeing as how you can't even follow the basic rules of debate. You ASSERTED that I have no source material, and seeing as how there's no proof for any of that, the burden of proof is on you. The fact that you are embarrassing yourself while trying desperately to sound intelligent, is quite sad.
You, again, don't get it. This "assertion" wasn't part of any debate, it was just a mocking exeggeration of facts. That you still waste time with it, just shows your stupidity. That's like if I would go "Proof I'm a Nazi" any time you make a comment in that direction. That would certainly make me look very smart, huh? Oh...wait...no it won't, since only 12 year old children behave that way.
Who is "everyone"?
Any single being posting in this thread with the exception of yourself, including Lightsnake, who - last time I checked - wasn't one of my greatest fans.
The fact that I can admit when I'm wrong and the fact that you look a helpless retard when you can't. I'll be waiting for the proof that I have no source materials.
Excuse me. Faunus has proven that you're wrong on page #1 of this thread. It just took you four additional pages, to concede and - no - you didn't admit you're wrong. You're still arguing your original point, based on two illogical premises.
*Cue troll and sock name calling*
Why should I state the obvious?
Originally posted by Borbarad
So you use a unique state Kenobi was in (read: "enraged"😉, and your interpretation of his performance which does contradict Kenobi's own words as basis for your assertions? And you really think that the result of this kind of "reasoning" will be accurate?
You, again, don't get it. This "assertion" wasn't part of any debate, it was just a mocking exeggeration of facts. That you still waste time with it, just shows your stupidity. That's like if I would go "Proof I'm a Nazi" any time you make a comment in that direction. That would certainly make me look very smart, huh? Oh...wait...no it won't, since only 12 year old children behave that way.
Excuse me. Faunus has proven that you're wrong on page #1 of this thread. It just took you four additional pages, to conceed and - no - you didn't admit you're wrong. You're still arguing your original point, based on two illogical premises.
Why should I state the obvious? [/B]
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Because I used the actual video over the interpretation, so based on what I used, the reasoning was accurate. If I used the wrong sources then I was wrong.
No, it wasn't. Because even if you take the video, you still have Obi-Wan in a unique state, that he won't be in while facing Mighella. Thus your "reasoning" is devoid of any logic, because the performance of TPM Kenobi during this 30 seconds of duelling Maul is not an example of Kenobi's every day duelling abilities.
Seeing as how you're the only one that's ever peddled this illusion, it's not facts but another part of your delusions. It's funny how if I'm wasting time with it, it's stupidity, but when you make baseless accusations that make you look like a moron, it's because you're mocking. Gotta love the double standards by an incompetent human being.
How about not trying to play IKC - only one of the roles you miserably fail at - and stop your hilarious attempts to spot and point out logical fallacies. A double-standard? So, when exactly have I asked you to prove that one of your insults was correct, which would be necessary for me to commit a double-standard?
Yes, I'm arguing my original point that according to the video, Obiwan held his own. If we were to take the video as supreme canon, I would be right. If we are to take Kenobi's interpretation, then I am wrong, but not because of "illogical premises", but because I thought the wrong source took precedence over another.
Just look above and see why this is "illogical" - because you didn't take Kenobi's unique state into consideration and attempted to apply his skill level shown there to another fight.
Because the obvious to you, has been ignored and ridiculed on this forum, yet you still persist and make yourself look ridiculous. Then again, you're still claiming I have no sources and that I'm asking you to prove a negative, so why would I expect anything from an incompetent foreigner?
Sexy...
Didn't I just tell you to stop the trolling? You can make a poll to see how many people here believe you ["I'm not TDTD" "I have sources"] and how many people believe my words. Have fun with it. I'm not interested in your personal perceptions of reality or in the size of your e-peen. Time to get that into your head.
