Final Destination [Maximum] Vol.9 Bowser X Kain

Originally posted by The Scenario
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I dont know actually, Vorador died before the SR era, infact canonically he died in BO1 but appears in BO2 from an unkown reason, so at some point he was ressurected, I am not sure what happened to him since he is not mentioned in the following games, it would seem he was destroyed as most fans speculate by Kain. Either way, your argument holds no ground still, age is not the only defining power level of a vampire, Kain is still vastly more powerful. Your bringing up vampires other than those featured in the scene....your grasping at straws. Melchiah was considered the weakest of his brothers, to the point where his flesh was constantly rotting off by itself.

So according to your interpretation they look like Sarafan melee weapons (despite sarafan no longer excisting in that period unless your claiming this happened years ago before any evolution/devolution sort of ruining your argument anyway) and based on that you think you have fact to suggest they were meleed? 😆 not convincing, scenario you have a problem with burden of proof, first I have proven the vampires are durable with Raziels comments so its your turn to prove humans had a way to surpass this with your theory of meleeing them.

Why would raziel look for other means of killing them if their not durable and able to be ripped into piecies? You also misunderstand the use of spears, water etc, because its a constant period of damage meaning it will stay inside them unlike his claws, hence why when water recedes vampires come back to life, when spears are pulled out etc. If Raziel could tear them into piecies with his super strength, he would not need water, the sun etc.

Well because he was hit by a devasating furnace blast that also explodes with force of its power, its not just "catching alight". NO evidence? you have 2 gameplay videos of a fire render that does the same to most materials such as wood included, which all burn ridiculously fast, theres a consistency in the rendering that either things burn fast for the sake of gameplay or burn fast because of the SR environment. Further, Kain is different because he is millions of times more durable, you cannot melt down something so durable, not in time. This is not a turn based fight where Kain has to wait for bowser to choose another form of attack before doing an action, Kain can instantly go between mist form and solid, I have yet to see reason to belive Bowser can instantly go between suction and fire.

The gas consists of a few little ignitions and the fire burns first to the center for a good few seconds, so no gas ignites to fill the room, its the combustion of fire striking the center that makes it explode.

Well its proven he can exert more than enough force than Bowser can survive, which is so far nothing really gaugable.

Yeh, you know that was concering the soul card, its a gameplay mechanic, most bosses are immune to one hit kills and until you can prove it canonically happens your wasting our time.

How can a completly different scene overwrite/retcon a FMV previous? it cannot, it has different situations involved. Although I dont know how you spamming this claim is going to convince me.

Originally posted by The Scenario

Whats them not being here have anything to do with it? developers know more about their series as do I, yet you apprently think your a know it all so I have to use developers who know even more than I do. Also prove they were talking about the crease across Kains chest? because in the Q/A it is refered to as Kains death scar, the one made by Raziel is the only one where Kain is refered to or thought of as dead, considering he had lost the only piece of him that would push him into death.

Do we? because the last time I checked it was a scripted event that was used by the ability, it cannot even be a mechanic. Thats not really gaugable, give me an actual figuire, tbh it does not look like a feat at all since again when he lands he does not real damage to the environment. They restarted the universe ergo their physical forces are incredibly powerful? what are you even talking about, I hope you know because you need to explain this.

You cannot keep saying "your evidence", evidence for what? it seems to me most of my evidence has been covered, your still struggling with the scraps your trying to find, claiming your interpretations as fact (you like doing this, good old pride and arrogence) and then pretending its cold hard facts against someone who actually knows the series.

But the dimension reaver is a static, scripted event. Theres nothing with bowsers speed other than him flying around in SMG that is canon, happens and cannot be argued against. You rely on too many actual mechanics, when the dimention reaver although present in gameplay, is not a gamepaly mechanic, you have a problem with this whole difference between what is and is not a mechanic it seems.

Hang on, Kain suggests the human mind is fragile therefore you claim he can only use it on human minds? you need to prove Bowsers mind is less fragile than a humans, which is the correct logical path.

So you admit you cannot prove he has no blood, coolio.

I dont know what your saying here, you seem to be rambling. Some things can be slow for a bullet. Also i like how your reaching again, how apprently your feat is not good enough therefore I am not seeing what your talking about ,theres no durability to mension, we dont know the forces here. Where I can point out in a calculation that Kain can take 9 million tons PSI without harm, wheres your calculation for this black hole? so far I see weak sauce objects being pulled in, slowly....I doubt half of those objects even weigh in the millions of tons, let alone have a durability to equel it.

Two unproven claims.

The slow moving sonic blasts it fires are a mechanic, like a lot of in-game projectiles. Also, unlike the dimension reaver which is scripted, you need to prove the actual dodging is scripted, also saying their still as fast as sound is a leap of logic, since we cannot see that. Its also interesting to note the SM characters can be harmed by loud music, seems their ****ed against Kains varied powers and a sword.

Its unclear why there are peasants there, evidence suggests three things, A; gameplay mechanic, peasents have to be there for a health source for Kain, its not actually canonically mentioned by Kain or others iirc. B; Humans, creatures and weather are mentioned to be affected, so the reason why these specific people are not could be explained by the fact the circle simply use some slaves/people to experiment on. C, finally, it could be only the outer bubble that Kain walks through that changes the world as it passes over it and these peasents were put there after.

Nothing claims that, so its an amazing feat. Your playing on Kains "theories" on why he was not affected I assume?

😆 a few little stars into cards=an entire region/country tranformed in many different ways, both weather, ground and beast was warped yet you think its not as impressive. You are easily the most stubborn KMC member, at least I change certain points, I think if it was anyone other than me you would agree but because you "have to" continue due to pride whatever, we will waste more time on this.

Originally posted by BloodRain
😕 It'd do a better than the pistol would...

Well thats the point, despite its power (far more than the less than 50% more that bowser has over Raziels) it can never penetrate the tank.

Kinda pointless comparison. The bottom line is that Kain's best durability feat comes from a person with 1/20th to 1/2000th the strength that Bowser has here.

Its a perfect comparison, something that can take 9 million tons is not going to suddenly combust, be destroyed completly by someone who only has about 47% more energy, thats not even an entire half.

So, to make you understand I used the example of how a pistol cannot penetrate a tank, but something far stronger cannot either. Theres no reason to belive Bowser can do anymore than Raziel, but to let it slide the best it can do is small slices. Hes just as screwed as Raziel when he gets into deeper flesh and bone, not that this is going to make a difference.

Still a bad comparison, and not touching that 47% thing as.. well its obvious.

Bowser is up tp 2,000 times stronger than Kain's best durability feat. How is that not the end of the strength/durability deal?

Why is it? I think this thread is a very worthless matchup but it still has to be argued.

You did not counter me, 47% increase is not enough to convince me that he can do much more than make the smallest slashes. Therefore its not the end, also thats not more than Kains durability, thats potentially more than the resistance of Kains chest skin layer, the very top layer.

To go from that, to actually doing any major damage to Kain is going to be a long struggle, one Bowser cannot finish. If Bowser can do twice as much damage, then we may be getting somewhere to suggest he can certainly make a nasty gouge in Kains body. But theres plenty of arguments that have been made before to suggest Kains durability is irrelevent, they have been argued long before kains durability was even brought up in an argument.

Personal opinion? And wasn't looking to counter. 300 tons to 6,000 tons is a 2,000% increase. 272KJ to 544MJ is a 200,000% increase. AKA the best thing Kain has survived is only at 5% or 0.05% of Bowers strength. Or another way; Raziel has 272KJ of strength on claw tips < Bowser has 544MJ on claw tips.

Its basically like saying took a punch from a strong person[500J] then going ahead to think they could survive getting hit by a speeding car[1MJ]. A punch and a speeding car have a percent difference equal to Raziel and Bowser's strength fyi.

What Scream posted was correct, the only alterations being the area of the hand if accuracy is needed.

Your looking at basic strength numbers, I have done the math on page 4 to calculate how much PSI bowser is doing. His energy is only about 46% more on an equel ground level compared to kains durability.

No, its like as I said, taking a pistol shot without damage and then suggesting a shotgun would completly destroy the same object, theres no real reason to suggest it.

Show me how Screams post was correct, you apprently now agree claw tips are not the surface area? And that somehow Raziel punched with his claws or something?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your looking at basic strength numbers, I have done the math on page 4 to calculate how much PSI bowser is doing. His energy is only about 46% more on an equel ground level compared to kains durability.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No, its like as I said, taking a pistol shot without damage and then suggesting a shotgun would completly destroy the same object, theres no real reason to suggest it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Show me how Screams post was correct, you apprently now agree claw tips are not the surface area? And that somehow Raziel punched with his claws or something?

Energy: Max force they can produce in pounds / Area: Hand\claw\whatever area in Square Inches = PSI:.. Pounds per Square Inch.

Using this method with a three claw tip hand area of 0.0048in2: (basically what Scream did but with alterations to the area)

272 000 N.

1N = 0.224808943 foot pound force.

272000N = 61148/0.0048 = 12739166.7 lb/i^2

So 6,369.58 tons of PSI(half that with one arm strength if needed). Now put in Bowser's 122296065 foot pound force over a four claw tip 0.0064 area. To save you the work the answer is a good 9.5 mil tons of PSI.... lol at reversal. Leaving his PSI at 150,000% of Raziel's. Then again, never was a fan of PSI. ^^;

Weight: Bowser's 20x stronger. Joules: Bowser's 2,000x stronger. PSI: Bowser's 1,500x stronger. }All that times Kain's best durability feat.

Originally posted by BloodRain
So some calculation you came up with made a guy who was 2,000 time stronger then another only doing 1.5x the damage? Energy/Area=PSI. What you did was some strange calc.

Example with guns and a tank... example that has the same energy difference on an organism... Yeah, I think I'll stick to the latter example if you don't mind. How about another way; I'm pretty sure an average person can take a 100J weak punch without trouble. You know what will badly hurt them? A good 400J punch. A 5,000J full-body charge will break bones and knock them out. And what about a two-seater car at 40mph aka something with 2,000 times the force of the weak hit they took? Deadly.

"(...)the only alterations being the area of the hand if accuracy is needed." Means I don't care to think about if the claw tips alone or the whole hand is needed, so change if ya want. Scream did the correct formula of, like I said above, Energy/Area=PSI.

Energy: Max force they can produce in pounds / Area: Hand\claw\whatever area in Square Inches = PSI:.. Pounds per Square Inch.

Using this method with a three claw tip hand area of 0.0048in2: (basically what Scream did but with alterations to the area)

272 000 N.

1N = 0.224808943 foot pound force.

272000N = 61148/0.0048 = 12739166.7 lb/i^2

So 6,369.58 tons of PSI(half that with one arm strength if needed). Now put in Bowser's 122296065 foot pound force over a four claw tip 0.0064 area. To save you the work the answer is a good 9.5 mil tons of PSI.... lol at reversal. Leaving his PSI at 150,000% of Raziel's. Then again, never was a fan of PSI. ^^;

Weight: Bowser's 20x stronger. Joules: Bowser's 2,000x stronger. PSI: Bowser's 1,500x stronger. }All that times Kain's best durability feat.

Its spread over more area, bowser has 4 claws not 2. The calc is fairly clear, Kain has a few million tons PSI durability, Bowser does a tad more than that but thats not quite enough to suggest hes going to "wreck" Kain.

Your talking about low numbers and durability on normal people. The tank at least in my example points out how a vastly durable object cannot be so easily damaged by slightly more force.

Energy is the specific force they dealt in that scenario, e.g. the energy Raziel used in roughply a square foot (Scream seemed to use it for a pair of hands or something) is around 800 tons force. The area, gives you the spread the energy is moving across.

First, where are you getting 272 000N from, what weight and velocity are you using to get that. here is mine;

mass= 272235.422

Speed= 4 meters over 1 seconds

velocity= 4 divided by 1= 4

Velocity squared= 16

Multiply squared velocity with Mass= 272235.422 x 16

Kinetic energy= 4355766.752 x 0.5= 2177883.376 joule

Where is your piece that looks similiar to get energy below my joules?

Other errors include now calculating three claws, Raziel leads with just two, the other is like a thumb at the back of his hand. Second, you dont half the force just beacause one arm was not used, if you did it would be the same for bowser but one arm does not equel half your strength.

Bowser cannot do 9 million tons PSI because the area of his force is not in a square inch, I think you have warped your math a little here with the confusion of what PSI is, being force within a square inch, not the force within the area bowser is actually affecting. That being, 108,000 tons per 0.0064 sample compared to Kains durability in a similiar area being just over half that. As I said, around 46%

Edit- Looking back, it looks like you have mistaken the objects mass as the newtons? judging by the fact their roughply the same figuires in your work.

haermm Told myself I wouldn't post more than 2 lines when getting back to this thread. Such a short lived plan.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its spread over more area, bowser has 4 claws not 2. The calc is fairly clear, Kain has a few million tons PSI durability, Bowser does a tad more than that but thats not quite enough to suggest hes going to "wreck" Kain.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your talking about low numbers and durability on normal people. The tank at least in my example points out how a vastly durable object cannot be so easily damaged by slightly more force.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Energy is the specific force they dealt in that scenario, e.g. the energy Raziel used in roughply a square foot (Scream seemed to use it for a pair of hands or something) is around 800 tons force. The area, gives you the spread the energy is moving across.

Originally posted by Burning thought
First, where are you getting 272 000N from, what weight and velocity are you using to get that. here is mine;

-... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .--.

Where is your piece that looks similiar to get energy below my joules?

300 tons lifted at 1.4m/s. Measured and timed. Divide your joules by 8.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Other errors include now calculating three claws, Raziel leads with just two, the other is like a thumb at the back of his hand. Second, you dont half the force just beacause one arm was not used, if you did it would be the same for bowser but one arm does not equel half your strength.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Bowser cannot do 9 million tons PSI because the area of his force is not in a square inch, I think you have warped your math a little here with the confusion of what PSI is, being force within a square inch, not the force within the area bowser is actually affecting. That being, 108,000 tons per 0.0064 sample compared to Kains durability in a similiar area being just over half that. As I said, around 46%

Energy in lbs/Area in in2=PSI. Its that simple. Joules to Newtons, Newtons to lbs force, divide that by in squared = result.

Originally posted by BloodRain
haermm Told myself I wouldn't post more than 2 lines when getting back to this thread. Such a short lived plan.

Raziel's area: 0.0032in2 with two claws, 0.0048 with thumb. Bower's area: 0.0048 with three, 0.0064 with thumb. So this tiny area difference is nearly as strong as the massive strength difference? Lets see, 0.0048/0.0032 = 1.5x in Raziel's favour... A small blip to what strength brings to the table.

The tank is more metaphoric, mine is more literal. I used a literal example on a human scale with scaled up would be like Kain's.. at least more than a tank would. And on that; A pistol can't pierce a tank but anti-tank guns can.. guns that are 2,000-3,000x stronger than a pistol. That 2,000x difference is quite convenient, no?

And that scenario is the most they can generate, aka 272KJ. Thats the energy thats needed to preform the feat. That figure is the most the character can produce at any given time. That is the characters max strength they can put into a strike and the figure used.

300 tons lifted at 1.4m/s. Measured and timed. Divide your joules by 8.

Wasn't paying attention to what scene was being used. Give or take. The character uses the arms as the major thing in both feats, taking one away would dampen the result. Unless one believes that Raziel could punch the obelisk for the same results and a lift. The two handed thing is becoming as tiresome as PSI, personally.

So Pounds per Square Inch means... Pounds per Square Inch?? O: *le gasp* Both Scream and I know how to calc PSI, he may be better as I can't really be bothered to thing about those lil buggers. ;3

Energy in lbs/Area in in2=PSI. Its that simple. Joules to Newtons, Newtons to lbs force, divide that by in squared = result.

Well its quite large, also I am not sure I have seen Bowser using his claws yet, I thought he used all 4 in a swipe?

Well actually, not all anti-tank guns can damage all tanks although whats interesting here is that assuming your correct in an anti-tank guns being 2000-3000x stronger, Bowser cannot create 2000-3000x more force, infact he can just about create 0.5x more force.

Max strength but not max force, because velocity is relative. Dante performing a strength feat, will create less force using said strength to punch at a normal humans speed, than he would at full speed.

Can you show me the calculation please like I just did, I am not dividing Joules by 8 until I know why? also it seems theres some disparity, why is your velocity only 1.4 meters? It seems the only real argument so far is the distance raziel moves the thing, you wont get much less than millions of tons of durability PSi for a meter or so though.

Well two hands or one is irrelevent, because it would be comparative to Kains durability anyway. Kains durability over an area of skin is still the same, even if Bowser used two hands the area spread would simply increase comparatively.

Well you said bowser does 9 million PSI, which confused me because he does not strike for PSI, he strikes for pounds per 0.0064 if you get my meaning.

You cannot make joules to newtons for the guys reason on Yahoo so I dont know what you mean, also tranfering it is simply going to give us the same result but in newtons;

Joules cannot be converted to Newtons for the very simple reason that they are units of different things with joules being a unit of work or energy and newton being a unit of force (weight is a force too). It is just like how oranges cannot be converted to apples.

We already have a result however without transfering to newtons anyway.

1.5 is larger than 2000? I see.. hard to throw a thumb into a strike unless for a thrust.

Actually yes, he can produce 2000x the force Raziel can. Obelisk at 1.4m/s is 1/2000th that of the iron ball at 10m/s.

The character cant produce more energy then their max. And attack speed to increase force isnt used here, thought we said this already. I remember Nemebro saying something like unless the verse shows force increasing due to different speeds then its not used, with everyone agreeing. If you disagree take it up with people to change it. Otherwise it stays as it is.

Isnt it obvious from the weight and speed I gave? O.o change the weight to kg, square the speed, times together and half for joules to equal 272KJ. Also Im questions you sense of scale.. A meter or so isnt much but 1.5x is, and is above 2000x..

Not irrelivent if you want to place a figure on his durability.

You keep it as PSI as its easier to compare then changing Kain's durability to see what he can take under 0.0064 in2.

1 Joule = 1 Joule per second which can be changed into Newtons. Anyhow: Energy in lbs / Area in in2 = PSI. How you got 9 million from 272KJ over claw tips is anyone guess.

May as well lay it out for you:
Raziel; (272,155.422kg*2)/2 = 272,155.422 Joules. (V=2 as 1.4^2 = 1.96, but just incase, upped)
272,155.422 Joules over 2 claw tips with a total area of 0.0032in2.
272,155.422*0.224808943 = 61182.9728 / 0.0032 = 19,119,679 lb/in2
= 9,559.8395 tons.

Bowser: (5,443,108.44kg*(10*10))/2 = 272,155,422 Joules. (Must have left it as kinetic energy last time /shrugs)
272,155,422 Joules over 3 claw tips with a total area of 0.0048in2.
272,155,422*0.224808943 = 61182972.8 / 0.0048 = 12,746,452,700 lb/in2
= 6,373,226.35 tons.

Bowser's PSI is 666.666 times that of Raziel's.

To sum up again: Bowser has 20x the weight lift, 1000x the joule output and 666.666x the pressure.

Originally posted by BloodRain
1.5 is larger than 2000? I see.. hard to throw a thumb into a strike unless for a thrust.

Actually yes, he can produce 2000x the force Raziel can. Obelisk at 1.4m/s is 1/2000th that of the iron ball at 10m/s.

The character cant produce more energy then their max. And attack speed to increase force isnt used here, thought we said this already. I remember Nemebro saying something like unless the verse shows force increasing due to different speeds then its not used, with everyone agreeing. If you disagree take it up with people to change it. Otherwise it stays as it is.

Isnt it obvious from the weight and speed I gave? O.o change the weight to kg, square the speed, times together and half for joules to equal 272KJ. Also Im questions you sense of scale.. A meter or so isnt much but 1.5x is, and is above 2000x..

Not irrelivent if you want to place a figure on his durability.

You keep it as PSI as its easier to compare then changing Kain's durability to see what he can take under 0.0064 in2.

1 Joule = 1 Joule per second which can be changed into Newtons. Anyhow: Energy in lbs / Area in in2 = PSI. How you got 9 million from 272KJ over claw tips is anyone guess.

May as well lay it out for you:
Raziel; (272,155.422kg*2)/2 = 272,155.422 Joules. (V=2 as 1.4^2 = 1.96, but just incase, upped)
272,155.422 Joules over 2 claw tips with a total area of 0.0032in2.
272,155.422*0.224808943 = 61182.9728 / 0.0032 = 19,119,679 lb/in2
= 9,559.8395 tons.

Bowser: (5,443,108.44kg*(10*10))/2 = 272,155,422 Joules. (Must have left it as kinetic energy last time /shrugs)
272,155,422 Joules over 3 claw tips with a total area of 0.0048in2.
272,155,422*0.224808943 = 61182972.8 / 0.0048 = 12,746,452,700 lb/in2
= 6,373,226.35 tons.

Bowser's PSI is 666.666 times that of Raziel's.

To sum up again: Bowser has 20x the weight lift, 1000x the joule output and 666.666x the pressure.

I dont know where your getting the whole 2000 from, just because the ball is 2000x heavier or something? or 20x heavier? I think your trying to calculate forces from there and getting wrong figuires, my calculation starts from beginning to end and gets him at about 46% more force, its not small but its not enormous, certainly not 2000x more than Raziels.

The iron ball did not move 10m/s, unless you mean when he tossed it? he was powered up by the brothers.

Of course its used otherwise where do you think velocity comes from the get joules? without any velocity mass is standing still, e.g. not much if any force if its not moving. 😆 I like how you claim that apprently Nemebro invented some sort of "movement does not increase energy" and then stick to it like its a forum rule, I dont think even Nemebro would even say something so strange especially when it would make the Chronos feat almost useless for Kratos, and most of the legend of zelda feats far weaker than they already are.

Weight and speed? but we cannot calculate speed, nemebro said so? 😛 my calculation does that, it does not come to 272kj, as you see juels have another unit, you seem to have lost one in translation.

Well the 0.0064 figuire is the one thats most useful, theres no point in having PSI if bowsers force does not cover that area. Kains durability does, bowsers force does not because hes not able to create the force of his finger in a square inch.

Its not actually anyones guess as its in calculation form, you ignoring it does not change anything. Instead of just saying its wrong, then putting your own calc and saying its better, why dont you go back with your own red pen and say where my calculation does not add up? like I did below to yours?

A few errors there, like someone else likes to say time to get my red pen out.

-1.4 meters is a lowball figuire for how far Raziel moved the obelisk, it went above his height, which by itself is over 2 meters and before it reaches the apex of its climb for its own weight to pull it down it moves at least another meter, maybe two which Raziel pushes it into doing, it could be argued Raziel also gave it some of its speed on the way down but its hard to gauge how much.

-Your final figuire is not in square inch, its in a fraction of that because its across 0;0032.

-As I said above, Bowser does not move it without aid, infact he struggles quite a lot with holding it, the ball you mathed at 6k tons, I think its time i took a look at it myself because I think were more likely looking at it in hundreds of tons, not thousands like you belive. Just to be clear, where are your own figuires/calculatiosn on it?

-Finally, the force he used on the obelisk is not the same series of events he used on Kain. So I dont know why your squaring the result across Raziels claw tips when he did not use that energy through his claw tips, only through his hands which would come to roughly 800 tons, not thousands.

You seem to haev the right practice, but until I see Bowser slashing with just 3 claws, not 4 like I imagine he does I am unsure if 3 is the number to divide by. Also, more importantly is Bowser usually punches, in almost every video I have of him, he punches suggesting his claws are not durable enough to take his strength, kinda like how human nails are too frail to use as claws. But again, we may as well argue distance Raziel moved and pushed it first, before the calculation. At the moment you dont seem to think he pushed it above his height when I belive he pushed it at least 2/3 meters more.

I would put my own math down again but at the moment, theres no point because its in the respect thread but more importantly, your calculating the wrong numbers because Raziel does not use his claws on the obelisk, nor does he use both hands on Kain.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I dont know where your getting the whole 2000 from, just because the ball is 2000x heavier or something? or 20x heavier? I think your trying to calculate forces from there and getting wrong figuires, my calculation starts from beginning to end and gets him at about 46% more force, its not small but its not enormous, certainly not 2000x more than Raziels.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The iron ball did not move 10m/s, unless you mean when he tossed it? he was powered up by the brothers.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Of course its used otherwise where do you think velocity comes from the get joules? without any velocity mass is standing still, e.g. not much if any force if its not moving. 😆 I like how you claim that apprently Nemebro invented some sort of "movement does not increase energy" and then stick to it like its a forum rule, I dont think even Nemebro would even say something so strange especially when it would make the Chronos feat almost useless for Kratos, and most of the legend of zelda feats far weaker than they already are.

Weight and speed? but we cannot calculate speed, nemebro said so? 😛 my calculation does that, it does not come to 272kj, as you see juels have another unit, you seem to have lost one in translation.

Wow... ok have to ask; Can you read? If yes, do you read my posts? ''The character cant produce more energy then their max'' Eg Link. His max comes from throwing a pillar at x speeds = 100% of what he can do. You cant further increase a characters max.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Well the 0.0064 figuire is the one thats most useful, theres no point in having PSI if bowsers force does not cover that area. Kains durability does, bowsers force does not because hes not able to create the force of his finger in a square inch.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its not actually anyones guess as its in calculation form, you ignoring it does not change anything. Instead of just saying its wrong, then putting your own calc and saying its better, why dont you go back with your own red pen and say where my calculation does not add up? like I did below to yours?

Originally posted by Burning thought
A few errors there, like someone else likes to say time to get my red pen out.

-1.4 meters is a lowball figuire for how far Raziel moved the obelisk, it went above his height, which by itself is over 2 meters and before it reaches the apex of its climb for its own weight to pull it down it moves at least another meter, maybe two which Raziel pushes it into doing, it could be argued Raziel also gave it some of its speed on the way down but its hard to gauge how much.

Originally posted by Burning thought
-Your final figuire is not in square inch, its in a fraction of that because its across 0;0032.

Originally posted by Burning thought
-As I said above, Bowser does not move it without aid, infact he struggles quite a lot with holding it, the ball you mathed at 6k tons, I think its time i took a look at it myself because I think were more likely looking at it in hundreds of tons, not thousands like you belive. Just to be clear, where are your own figuires/calculatiosn on it?

Originally posted by Burning thought
-Finally, the force he used on the obelisk is not the same series of events he used on Kain. So I dont know why your squaring the result across Raziels claw tips when he did not use that energy through his claw tips, only through his hands which would come to roughly 800 tons, not thousands.

Am going to give a lol that the the 'errors' are how you got different speeds, something, your wishful doubts and wanting to use more than 100% strength. You would be a terrible teacher, just doodling over my homework with your red pen .-.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You seem to haev the right practice, but until I see Bowser slashing with just 3 claws, not 4 like I imagine he does I am unsure if 3 is the number to divide by. Also, more importantly is Bowser usually punches, in almost every video I have of him, he punches suggesting his claws are not durable enough to take his strength, kinda like how human nails are too frail to use as claws. But again, we may as well argue distance Raziel moved and pushed it first, before the calculation. At the moment you dont seem to think he pushed it above his height when I belive he pushed it at least 2/3 meters more.

Then go look for it? 😕 No ones stopping you.. Dude listen to yourself here; "The monster-thing has claws, he has used his claws before, but wont and/or cant here." And is it logical to compare Bowser's claws to human nails..?

Ok ok ok, the lift. As he flips it instead of lifting the whole thing up and chucking it we have to use the speed in which only Raziel was the factor in moving it, and that was until he gets it near chest height. The clean. You appear to be using the jerk, problem is that as he's flipping it the obelisks own weight will be a major factor in it falling, by my eye half the weight was on the tipping axis. Only 51% of the weight would need to be over that tipping weight to make Raziel's play in it a bare minimal. I'm looking at it and honestly, I cant see where you got a 4m/s push from anywhere.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I would put my own math down again but at the moment, theres no point because its in the respect thread but more importantly, your calculating the wrong numbers because Raziel does not use his claws on the obelisk, nor does he use both hands on Kain.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Its 1000x, misscalc. The weight is 20x heavier, the force he can produce is 1000x as much. Said this like 3 times before I swear.. Any calculation with the positive being 1000x and the negative being /1.5 leaving an answer only 1.46x the original figure is a problematic one.

It moved its own diameter in a second, technically its 11m/s then.

Nope, not in the actual attack. The max force possible is used. Actually Neme, DP, Scream and I think two others. I believe what they say is true. And it makes sense as there is no way a character can do more than 100%, unless you disagree. Max = Max.

Wow... ok have to ask; Can you read? If yes, do you read my posts? ''The [b]character cant produce more energy then their max'' Eg Link. His max comes from throwing a pillar at x speeds = 100% of what he can do. You cant further increase a characters max.

......*sigh* Its to compare. One has a weight over B the other has weight over D, the only way to see if the former weight is above the latter is to get B to equal D or vise versa. Either way the numbers will be changed when comparing so we leave them all over A.

Nah, feels like an ass move tbh. All the point are already obvious and have been explained.

Its only a lowball figure if I say it was a lowball figure when getting it. It wasnt. It was the figure. The speed comes from how fast he could lift it, which was 1.4m in a second. Went back to measure it again; in 1 second he gets it to a his slight leaned in chest height which is, compared to his height, 1.4m. Measured and timed. Want that red pen back?

...what are you talking about son? Its 6,1182.9728 lbs over 0.0032in2. The steps after that are over 1in2.

And as I said above thats from the catch, strength has to equal that or it would not have been stopped. Urm... /shrugs/ Scene asked, I answered. Search around. But good luck making a 5.5mR iron ball anywhere less than a few thousand tons. A little tip, you'd have to get it to a size of 2mR or density of... oats to make it equal the frustum.

Frustum lift = Max possible force = Most he can force upon Kain.

Am going to give a lol that the the 'errors' are how you got different speeds, something, your wishful doubts and wanting to use more than 100% strength. You would be a terrible teacher, just doodling over my homework with your red pen .-.

Then go look for it? 😕 No ones stopping you.. Dude listen to yourself here; "The monster-thing has claws, he has used his claws before, but wont and/or cant here." And is it logical to compare Bowser's claws to human nails..?

Ok ok ok, the lift. As he flips it instead of lifting the whole thing up and chucking it we have to use the speed in which only Raziel was the factor in moving it, and that was until he gets it near chest height. The clean. You appear to be using the jerk, problem is that as he's flipping it the obelisks own weight will be a major factor in it falling, by my eye half the weight was on the tipping axis. Only 51% of the weight would need to be over that tipping weight to make Raziel's play in it a bare minimal. I'm looking at it and honestly, I cant see where you got a 4m/s push from anywhere.

Well no offense but I don't need to see it. Raziel can not generate more than 100% of his maximum force. Must be the third time saying that... stop making me repeat myself. [/B]

The force is not 1000x, I dont know why you keep claiming that when I have proven its under twice as much, 1000x would be far more.

It did not move at all thanks to bowser and your calculating its diameter at 11 meters? not even close, you dont even have to work anything out to realise bowser could fit into the dimater a few times only, if hes a meter, meter and a half across thats not 11 meters.

100% is something youve pulled out of nowhere, your ignoring momentum. A car going at speed is going to impact heavier than it going at 10 mph, basic physics seriously please tell me you dont dispute that, if you do and its the same for those you mentioned then none of you know basic physics 😬

Can you logically deduce momentum? do you know something going faster impacts harder than something moving slow? Maybe there was no point in making firearms because humans throwing bullets by hand create the same pressure according to you, afterall momentum does not mean anything.

Compare what? its like me saying Raziel has billions of tons of force over a square inch just because his claws can make millions of tons in 0.0032, its not logical.

Well the points are obvious, for some reason however you cannot grasp them.

1.4 meters? impossible, in 1 second Raziel moves it over himself and pushes it. At 3:31 he pulls it up and by 3:32 has pushed it a few meters, then after that it would be unfair to claim raziel pushed it all the way since obviously it takes its own weight.

😆 son, as if your arrogent tone is going to impress me, I am not even sure if your my senior 😉 "sport" 😛

Its more a durability feat, Bowser being anchored and has strength superior to the ball, he does not use his own strength to push it back. The iron ball is about 3/4 meters in dimeter max assuming bowser is about a meter.5 wide. Bowser is not wider than that.

Wrong, frustum lift is the highest strength feat, if you move that strength at higher speed, or through his claws hes getting more force silly.

Why should I? I want the opposition to actually provide something. Has he used his claws before? when? because some incarnations of bowser seem to be stronger than others. Illogical? well its illogical that bowser punches all the time if he create far more pressure just by using his claws, therefore I can only suggest its because his claws are not that strong.

You cannot see?, from the ground to Raziels chest about 1.4 meters but it does not stop there, he lifts it over his head and pushes it a meter or two before its own weight takes it. It does not start moving until Raziel pushes it so you cant ignore the second push, it goes a meter or so. The figuire would at least be able 2.5-3 meters. Again, you wont get less than millions of tons per square inch of force.

How do you think I feel? I have to repeat myself to you, scenario and will probably have to do so again. Difference is you dont know how momentum works, so its like fighting a losing battle if you dont know the basics. Also no offence, but you are argueing bullshit, how much of a difference do you think it will make if you can prove Bowser can actually pierce Kains first skin layer that means nothing. He will never do any real, major damage, his hand will get stuck a few inches in.

Further, he will never get to striking Kain, so far he can just fly around.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The force is not 1000x, I dont know why you keep claiming that when I have proven its under twice as much, 1000x would be far more.

Originally posted by Burning thought
It did not move at all thanks to bowser and your calculating its diameter at 11 meters? not even close, you dont even have to work anything out to realise bowser could fit into the dimater a few times only, if hes a meter, meter and a half across thats not 11 meters.

1m? .__.

Originally posted by Burning thought
100% is something youve pulled out of nowhere, your ignoring momentum. A car going at speed is going to impact heavier than it going at 10 mph, basic physics seriously please tell me you dont dispute that, if you do and its the same for those you mentioned then none of you know basic physics 😬

Originally posted by Burning thought
Can you logically deduce momentum? do you know something going faster impacts harder than something moving slow? Maybe there was no point in making firearms because humans throwing bullets by hand create the same pressure according to you, afterall momentum does not mean anything.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Compare what? its like me saying Raziel has billions of tons of force over a square inch just because his claws can make millions of tons in 0.0032, its not logical.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Well the points are obvious, for some reason however you cannot grasp them.

Originally posted by Burning thought
1.4 meters? impossible, in 1 second Raziel moves it over himself and pushes it. At 3:31 he pulls it up and by 3:32 has pushed it a few meters, then after that it would be unfair to claim raziel pushed it all the way since obviously it takes its own weight.

Originally posted by Burning thought
😆 son, as if your arrogent tone is going to impress me, I am not even sure if your my senior 😉 "sport" 😛

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its more a durability feat, Bowser being anchored and has strength superior to the ball, he does not use his own strength to push it back. The iron ball is about 3/4 meters in dimeter max assuming bowser is about a meter.5 wide. Bowser is not wider than that.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Wrong, frustum lift is the highest strength feat, if you move that strength at higher speed, or through his claws hes getting more force silly.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Why should I? I want the opposition to actually provide something. Has he used his claws before? when? because some incarnations of bowser seem to be stronger than others. Illogical? well its illogical that bowser punches all the time if he create far more pressure just by using his claws, therefore I can only suggest its because his claws are not that strong.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You cannot see?, from the ground to Raziels chest about 1.4 meters but it does not stop there, he lifts it over his head and pushes it a meter or two before its own weight takes it. It does not start moving until Raziel pushes it so you cant ignore the second push, it goes a meter or so. The figuire would at least be able 2.5-3 meters. Again, you wont get less than millions of tons per square inch of force.

Originally posted by Burning thought
How do you think I feel? I have to repeat myself to you, scenario and will probably have to do so again. Difference is you dont know how momentum works, so its like fighting a losing battle if you dont know the basics. Also no offence, but you are argueing bullshit, how much of a difference do you think it will make if you can prove Bowser can actually pierce Kains first skin layer that means nothing. He will never do any real, major damage, his hand will get stuck a few inches in.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Further, he will never get to striking Kain, so far he can just fly around.

Originally posted by BloodRain
The max force Raziel can produce is.... holy groundhogs day Batman! Its the same thing over again. Raziels max output = 272KJ, Bowsers max output = 272MJ.

How did it get to him in the first place. Start there and come back to the reply. Hang on hang on, Bowser is 1m tall?... Bowser? OK first off he's 2m tall compared to Mario's official height which was posted in the original calc. Second is that the radius is more than twice his height.

1m? .__.

Nope. 100% is the most force Raziel can deliver, which so happens to be flipping the obelisk. He cant do more that his maximum. Youre obviously not getting it. To start do you think that the people who calc physics things here dont know the basics? Or the people that taught you dont know the basics? Gonna say this one more time so perk your ears; Go ask someone else. I supported it, didnt fly here. You want it, go get it brah 😐

So you dont read them. Making me sad face in the face. Reply to the post next time, dont drift off into other things.

[Repeat the same thing]

Was talking about my points, not yours... pretty clear really.

0-1 second = obelisk is lifted to Raziels chest = 80% of his height = 1.4m. Used my phone stopwatch, dont just use the vids time. Thats not precise.

O__o Why is it that whenever I use words like kid, sport, son etc you think Im being arrogant or speaking in a demeaning way? Its how I speak normally irl, the more I post the more likely Im gonna use irl speech. Dont be so sensitive.. ^^;;

Without the strength to counter it he would have collapse under the force. Not gonna touch that, just suggest you talk another crack at it. By that very vague answer of '3/4m' kinda tells me that you barely looked at it. Passing thought.

The max strength you can exert on something is the max force you can exert on something. If he could increase it with more speed then he would have done so in the lift [insert infinite gain loop here].

'Cos you want it? Scene's already covered this, take his word or go do it yourself. Falls down to two things; 1. Scenario's covered this. Or 2. Really... really not touching a pointless thing like this :/ No offense, but if a monster has claws and has used his claws then he can use his claws.

*adjusts imaginary glasses* all youre doing is getting the distance and ignoring the time. He lifts it 1.4m in 1 second aka 1.4m/s for his primary clean lift. How about this, I'll gladly accept the jerk part if you can give the specifics of; 1- The exact distance. 2- The exact time. 3. The exact percentage that was balancing on the axis then the distance that the obelisk needed to be moved so that 51% of its weight is over the axis so it can continue to move by itself with the aid of gravity and how much strength was needed to do so.. Whenever youre ready.

As long as you say things like "you dont know how momentum works" the more you'll fail to get your point across. Because if you did read this thread you'd know that Im just following customs despite what I wanted. You're sounding mad bro o: don't be~ Not really, I'm arguing that the vast difference in strength will allow Bowser to shred through Kain. But as you're so sure you're right lemme know, have you managed to convince anyone of the durability you want? Am curious. As if your workings were right no one would be able to object to it.

Right now, don't really care. :3

Ok a statement, now what evidence is there to support this? your saying that regardless of what happens concerning speed, assuming in the next LoK game (if there was one coming) he gained lightspeed, he would not be able to increase his force? yes or no? 🙂

No, bowser is about 1.5 meters wide, if that. You can fit his width in the image about 3 times across the diameter of the sphere, ergo ihe sphere is about 4/5 meters in diameter, I dont know how the hell you got 11 meters.

You did not counter my post, just continued spamming the whole "he cant do more than 100%" rubbish which does not even make sense. Clearly you dont know the basics because you dont realise how velocity/momentum can increase force. I think its funny how when your calcing Saviour for Dante, you take into account the speed of his arm, yet I cannot do so for Raziels arm on Kain 😐

Hypocrite mr drift off into other things.

And it does not stop at his chest, you see during the same 1 second it lifts above him and he pushes it, it does not start moving until he pushes it forwards.

Because it sounds demeaning, its used by other posters to be demeaning, e.g. Quanchi.

He did collapse under the force, his face was nearly touching the ground, its just his thick turtle legs seem to have some great absorbtion. It was vague because I am yet undecided on how wide Bowser is and was leaving room for another half meter since hes a wide character, either way it does not come to 11 meters, nowhere near close.

Again, rubbish because as we have seen Raziel is excerting more force on Kain using the PSI area of his claws. So you trip yourself up again, and again, momentum is relevent. Something moving faster is going to impact with more force than something slower.

You did not really counter me here, I want to know when he has used his claws and against what, I dont have to look around the internet to find it myself when its my oppositions argument to prove hes using his claws here. There could be a good reason why he uses punches most of the time.

Exact distance is 3 meters, 2 meters above raziel and the push can send it another meter. Its pretty clear by;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3oDJym8UNw&feature=related#t=3m31s

That the obelisk is not only above Raziels head, a fair amount above as he pushes it.

All this "if you did read this thread" nonsense, I think if you did read this thread you would realise by now Kain is not going to be fazed much by Bowser. Your argueing a lie, there is no "vast" difference, and your math is messed up because you belive momentum does not affect force or at least, when concerning Kain and not Dante or another character you favour it does not, further where is this customs nonsense from because I dont belive anyone has said momentum is irrelevent to force other than you. Are you trying to make an appeal to audiance fallacy here? My math clearly points it out in factual data, and your speaking as if nobody is unbias on KMC and would not simply ignore or claim something is wrong just to continue their argument even if its wrong. You have not even tried to address the math in question tbh, you have tried making more equations that you claim are more likely, as I said perhaps if you bothered to go back and look at the math and point out at least one error you can get a toffee for trying.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ok a statement, now what evidence is there to support this? your saying that regardless of what happens concerning speed, assuming in the next LoK game (if there was one coming) he gained lightspeed, he would not be able to increase his force? yes or no? 🙂

Originally posted by Burning thought
No, bowser is about 1.5 meters wide, if that. You can fit his width in the image about 3 times across the diameter of the sphere, ergo ihe sphere is about 4/5 meters in diameter, I dont know how the hell you got 11 meters.

That should be enough time. Right, now here's why; Mario was confirmed to be 1.52 cm tall, compared to him Bowser is 2m tall. On my screen Bowser in the scene is 1cm tall [thus 1cm = 2m] and when he's holding the ball his width as you call it is 1.5cm ie 3m. Now on the screen the ball is 5x wider than him ie 10m, and that without getting to the center line. 11.5m as in the original post, being made of iron makes it 6000 tons.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You did not counter my post, just continued spamming the whole "he cant do more than 100%" rubbish which does not even make sense. Clearly you dont know the basics because you dont realise how velocity/momentum can increase force. I think its funny how when your calcing Saviour for Dante, you take into account the speed of his arm, yet I cannot do so for Raziels arm on Kain 😐

Originally posted by Burning thought
Hypocrite mr drift off into other things.

Originally posted by Burning thought
And it does not stop at his chest, you see during the same 1 second it lifts above him and he pushes it, it does not start moving until he pushes it forwards.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Because it sounds demeaning, its used by other posters to be demeaning, e.g. Quanchi.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He did collapse under the force, his face was nearly touching the ground, its just his thick turtle legs seem to have some great absorbtion. It was vague because I am yet undecided on how wide Bowser is and was leaving room for another half meter since hes a wide character, either way it does not come to 11 meters, nowhere near close.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Again, rubbish because as we have seen Raziel is excerting more force on Kain using the PSI area of his claws. So you trip yourself up again, and again, momentum is relevent. Something moving faster is going to impact with more force than something slower.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You did not really counter me here, I want to know when he has used his claws and against what, I dont have to look around the internet to find it myself when its my oppositions argument to prove hes using his claws here. There could be a good reason why he uses punches most of the time.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Exact distance is 3 meters, 2 meters above raziel and the push can send it another meter. Its pretty clear by;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3oDJym8UNw&feature=related#t=3m31s

That the obelisk is not only above Raziels head, a fair amount above as he pushes it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
All this "if you did read this thread" nonsense, I think if you did read this thread you would realise by now Kain is not going to be fazed much by Bowser. Your argueing a lie, there is no "vast" difference, and your math is messed up because you belive momentum does not affect force or at least, when concerning Kain and not Dante or another character you favour it does not. Are you trying to make an appeal to audiance fallacy here? My math clearly points it out in factual data, and your speaking as if nobody is unbias on KMC and would not simply ignore or claim something is wrong just to continue their argument even if its wrong. You have not even tried to address the math in question tbh, you have tried making more equations that you claim are more likely, as I said perhaps if you bothered to go back and look at the math and point out at least one error you can get a toffee for trying.

Originally posted by BloodRain
'The' statement. Unless he's shown to get stronger, nup. I suggested that Dante used his Mach15 attack speed to opponents here. Shot down like Santa Jack. If its the general practice of places like here or obd, I'm not too bothered to question it. Like I said, ask the others if you want to change it. Wouldnt mind giving Dante a 25mil m/s velocity~

Before I tell you why, why dont you go and tell me your evidence to why youre sure that he's 1.5m wide? Feel like placing a tenner down that you're guessing.

That should be enough time. Right, now here's why; Mario was confirmed to be 1.52 cm tall, compared to him Bowser is 2m tall. On my screen Bowser in the scene is 1cm tall [thus 1cm = 2m] and when he's holding the ball his width as you call it is 1.5cm ie 3m. Now on the screen the ball is 5x wider than him ie 10m, and that without getting to the center line. 11.5m as in the original post, being made of iron makes it 6000 tons.

For good reason, its a badass point who doesn't play by the rules. Lol how does 'you cant do more than 100%' not make sense to you? Oh clearly thats whats happening 🙂 cos its so obvious that no one on games vs understands velocity in relation to force even though they're the ones that taught it to you.. I think its funny that you think a statue is an organism~ The Savior doesn't have muscles for his strength, it only has its own weight to literally throw around. Now Raziel, he isn't a moving piece of rock. On the other hand if you want I can use the standard method and have the Saviors strength be equal to its body weight. FYI Dante's strength would skyrocket. Like I said, ask the others if you want to change it.

Typo's totally throwing me off what you're trying to say. I've said several time now that it should but doesn't, I wanted it but didn't get it, and how you should ask the others if you want to change it.

Does he move it 4m in 1 second? No he does not. How far does he lift it in a second? 1.4m. Thus the speed at which he lifts it it 1.4m/s.

Geez even my teachers didn't get this touchy-feely about random unrelated words, though you should know that if I wanted to assert dominance, arrogance or be demeaning in speech... you'd know about it. ^^

Collapse means facepalming the ground. The fact that he was able to support the force coming at him means he has the strength to do so. Look above for teh answer of weight.

Thats a change in PSI, not force. The medium in which he releases his force may change but the force itself has its limit, in this case 272KJ. Tripping up... wha? O-o

That might be because I wasn't looking to counter you in the slightest lol If you want specific examples then ask Scene, though I'm fairly sure he has already done so in this thread

'Can' no cans. So you say that the jerk portion is 3m.. and didnt say the time because? You only did 1 out of 3 things. From the push to land is about 2s, 3 meters over 2 seconds. Thats 1.5m/s. He pushed a certain percent of the obelisk at 1.5m/s and if even a little percent of its weight is over the axis (its near half) then the clean will give a higher result then the jerk... but seriously man, how on earth did you get 4m/s as the speed?

Oh, youre actually replying to that part. Was not expecting that. Also was not expecting the lil rage rant <-< >-> alrightythen.. And if you read my first reply to you you'd know that ''If Bowser can get his hands on Kain he wins, if not than probably Kain if his powers work against him.'' is my stand on this without looking much into it. Looking above we see that your Dante/Savior example didnt work, so that bias claim fails too. Whats that fallacy got to do with this? Isnt it the same as your traditional ''Youre not convincing me'' part? Shouldnt the guy that said that be able to convince others of his point? And people dont ignore proper math. I'm not a favorite around here, and Dante is hated more then most characters debated on games vs yet when I give a legit calc, those people except it. Nup, dun need ta. #1 Get the joules from (weight*speed2)/2 #2 turn joules to lbs force/area for PSI. The only difference is your #1.5 stage that, like Ive said numerous time, to take it up with the others instead of complaining to me. Admittedly this was a strange little... 'episode', especially from you bro `-` .....want a toffee?

So your basing your entire belief that I should follow these rules because your claim was shot down and then you just gave up? I dont know about mach 15 but speed increases force, its basic physics and unless its a new forum rule (checked, nope 😉 ) then KMC is full of shit if it thinks it can twist physics. If they want to twist physics then they have no reason to even argue any of the physics, they cannot pick and choose what physics are relevent.

If hes 2m tall like you claim, hes not much shorter than he is wide, so I am baseing it on the scene where he grabs the sphere. Where are you getting the 11 meters from because I doubt its in-game so you must be doing something similiar. How can a 2m tall bowser be 3m wide...hes wider than he is tall according to you and how tall do you think Mario is? 6 feet or something? Look here;

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Based on this, his crouching size is about as big as mario give or take a cm. hes not much wider than tall, even when crouching and only about 3.3 bowsers, e.g. 5 meters wide is the spheres diameter. I admit its rough but its much better than "on my screen"

😆 tought it to me? I think anyone who has any clue about gravity or physics in general can tell you that a similiar faster object hurts more than a slow one,a child can tell you that yet apprently you and the KMC crew dont think this is the case. Your argument is that Raziels force come from his muscles now? so what? what a shoddy counter, theres still force, Saviour being a statue does not let you dodge your own apprently undeniable rules.

I dont have to ask anyone or play by anyones rules unless its in the forum rules. least of all something that goes against physics itself when were discussing physics.

He lifts it AND pushes it a meter in 1 second, it does not stop at pulling it up to his chest.

He almost did facepalm the ground, he collapsed but not completly e.g. fall over. Due to his large mass and width (hes no slim jim) this makes sense since he has the strength to hold it in the first place, if he stopped it dead and did not struggle with his chin an inch off the floor you would have a point.

Thats what we are talking about, forces. PSI is the force he is using, your poking around at the strength feat. Why do you think its called striking force?

"pretty sure", maybe but this thread is only a few pages long i am sure he can point me to it.

Raziel is not responsible for it landing so how long it took to land is irrelevent, we know it was pushed to reach the apex and fall, It was roughply 2 meters when it was above his head, then pushed to move another meter. This all happens in 1 second, the actually obelisk hits the ground later but Raziel is not responsible hes already entered his energy input in 1 second.

Looking up we see you reaching about how apprently Saviour being a statue without muscle changes everything without any real evidence to suggest why. I never said anyone can convince me more than I can convince them, tbh I dont think anyone is trying to be convinced including you, even if you could not think of a counter you would rather ignore something than admit you were wrong. Clearly they do, but even so I dont ignore your shoddy math I assess it. Since when? I dont remember anyone with major opposition against you but I am not accepting your math, I cna see the holes in it so your thesis crumbles. 😆 you dont need to? Thats because you cannot.

Come back with some real calculations or at least if you see error in mine, the exact area where. If you cannot then theres no point spamming your calculations as if your some respected superior whos math is automatically above mine, afterall yours does not even follow physics because you were shot down in another thread lol.

Originally posted by Burning thought
So your basing your entire belief that I should follow these rules because your claim was shot down and then you just gave up? I dont know about mach 15 but speed increases force, its basic physics and unless its a new forum rule (checked, nope 😉 ) then KMC is full of shit if it thinks it can twist physics. If they want to twist physics then they have no reason to even argue any of the physics, they cannot pick and choose what physics are relevent.

Originally posted by Burning thought
If hes 2m tall like you claim, hes not much shorter than he is wide, so I am baseing it on the scene where he grabs the sphere. Where are you getting the 11 meters from because I doubt its in-game so you must be doing something similiar. How can a 2m tall bowser be 3m wide...hes wider than he is tall according to you and how tall do you think Mario is? 6 feet or something? Look here;

~~!!HERE!!!~~

Based on this, his crouching size is about as big as mario give or take a cm. hes not much wider than tall, even when crouching and only about 3.3 bowsers, e.g. 5 meters wide is the spheres diameter. I admit its rough but its much better than "on my screen"

Bowser's height = 40 pix = 2m. Ball diameter = 255 pix = 11.25m. Volume = 745,514,662.91242cm3. Density = Iron = 7.85g/cm3. Weight = 6,451 tons.

Originally posted by Burning thought
😆 tought it to me? I think anyone who has any clue about gravity or physics in general can tell you that a similiar faster object hurts more than a slow one,a child can tell you that yet apprently you and the KMC crew dont think this is the case. Your argument is that Raziels force come from his muscles now? so what? what a shoddy counter, theres still force, Saviour being a statue does not let you dodge your own apprently undeniable rules.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I dont have to ask anyone or play by anyones rules unless its in the forum rules. least of all something that goes against physics itself when were discussing physics.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He lifts it AND pushes it a meter in 1 second, it does not stop at pulling it up to his chest.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He almost did facepalm the ground, he collapsed but not completly e.g. fall over. Due to his large mass and width (hes no slim jim) this makes sense since he has the strength to hold it in the first place, if he stopped it dead and did not struggle with his chin an inch off the floor you would have a point.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats what we are talking about, forces. PSI is the force he is using, your poking around at the strength feat. Why do you think its called striking force?

Originally posted by Burning thought
"pretty sure", maybe but this thread is only a few pages long i am sure he can point me to it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Raziel is not responsible for it landing so how long it took to land is irrelevent, we know it was pushed to reach the apex and fall, It was roughply 2 meters when it was above his head, then pushed to move another meter. This all happens in 1 second, the actually obelisk hits the ground later but Raziel is not responsible hes already entered his energy input in 1 second.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Looking up we see you reaching about how apprently Saviour being a statue without muscle changes everything without any real evidence to suggest why. I never said anyone can convince me more than I can convince them, tbh I dont think anyone is trying to be convinced including you, even if you could not think of a counter you would rather ignore something than admit you were wrong. Clearly they do, but even so I dont ignore your shoddy math I assess it. Since when? I dont remember anyone with major opposition against you but I am not accepting your math, I cna see the holes in it so your thesis crumbles. 😆 you dont need to? Thats because you cannot.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Come back with some real calculations or at least if you see error in mine, the exact area where. If you cannot then theres no point spamming your calculations as if your some respected superior whos math is automatically above mine, afterall yours does not even follow physics because you were shot down in another thread lol.