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Why atheism?
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Mr Krieger
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lana
Atheism does not automatically equal "hates religion".


Atheism isn't Openminded to the "Could be", if you are, you arn't Athiest(the people trying to get Under God removed from the POA)

Old Post Oct 4th, 2006 12:31 AM
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Gregory
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There's a hell of a difference between hating something and being "open-minded" about it.

And you might not want to make to many comments about what "atheists" are doing, what with atheists having absolutely no central authority.


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Last edited by Gregory on Oct 4th, 2006 at 12:37 AM

Old Post Oct 4th, 2006 12:35 AM
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Peach
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Atheism isn't Openminded to the "Could be", if you are, you arn't Athiest(the people trying to get Under God removed from the POA)


And this is where you are wrong and if you'd read my post on my stance (which is very similar to the general stance of weak athiesm) you would see this.

Not having a belief in something does NOT mean you completely reject all possibility of it existing. As I said, I have no belief in any sort of higher being, but I aknowledge that one possibly could exist. I just don't believe it myself unless I get evidence to prove its existence.

The average person couldn't care less about the POA, atheist or not. Hell, the average person can't even recite it from memory.

And for that matter, that's no different from the people who want public prayer time and creationism in public schools.

You seem to know very little about religion, atheism, and, well, a lot of things erm


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Old Post Oct 4th, 2006 12:37 AM
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Mindship
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It's been my experience that most atheists don't believe in God (specifically, the biblical, "all-loving" kind) for one of two reasons...
1. There is no proof (ie, empirical proof).
2. There's too much suffering in the world or in one's personal life.


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Old Post Oct 4th, 2006 12:48 AM
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Mark Question
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Regret
Neither, both are stances on the subject of God.


We are all born Atheist.


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Old Post Oct 4th, 2006 01:45 AM
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Regret
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Jim Reaper
We are all born Atheist.
A decision is required to be atheist, you can't disbelieve or deny something you don't know about.


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Old Post Oct 4th, 2006 01:56 AM
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Peach
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Regret
A decision is required to be atheist, you can't disbelieve or deny something you don't know about.


You can't believe something you don't know about.

And what is atheism? Not having a belief in god.


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Old Post Oct 4th, 2006 02:02 AM
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Regret
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lana
You can't believe something you don't know about.

And what is atheism? Not having a belief in god.
atheism is the denial or disbelief in the existence of god, not having belief in god is not the same as atheism. Atheism as you describe would be existent at birth, iff God doesn't exist, I believe infants are born with the belief, and experience with examples of disbelief are the reason for the occurrence of disbelief. Given this, I could say that all infants are born theists.


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Old Post Oct 4th, 2006 02:20 AM
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Peach
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Regret
atheism is the denial or disbelief in the existence of god, not having belief in god is not the same as atheism. Atheism as you describe would be existent at birth, iff God doesn't exist, I believe infants are born with the belief, and experience with examples of disbelief are the reason for the occurrence of disbelief. Given this, I could say that all infants are born theists.


No, not having a belief in any sort of god is atheism. Have you just completely ignored/disregarded most of the thread?


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Old Post Oct 4th, 2006 02:28 AM
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Punkyhermy
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I don't get atheists plain and simple.

That we are is a phenomenon proof enough.

Last edited by Punkyhermy on Oct 4th, 2006 at 02:36 AM

Old Post Oct 4th, 2006 02:33 AM
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Regret
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lana
No, not having a belief in any sort of god is atheism. Have you just completely ignored/disregarded most of the thread?
The belief that infants are atheist is presupposing atheism being correct. Infants and those without a knowledge of the concept of God cannot accept, believe, deny or disbelieve in God. Not having a belief in God is not the same as not having the concept of God. The concept must be present to have a stance either way.


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Old Post Oct 4th, 2006 02:34 AM
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Punkyhermy
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Regret
The belief that infants are atheist is presupposing atheism being correct. Infants and those without a knowledge of the concept of God cannot accept, believe, deny or disbelieve in God. Not having a belief in God is not the same as not having the concept of God. The concept must be present to have a stance either way.


I think infants are the most prone to be the ultimate anti-all things atheisim. Just by existing they are experiencing, submitting, acepting the natural laws governing life.

Old Post Oct 4th, 2006 02:37 AM
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Imperial_Samura
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Regret
The belief that infants are atheist is presupposing atheism being correct. Infants and those without a knowledge of the concept of God cannot accept, believe, deny or disbelieve in God. Not having a belief in God is not the same as not having the concept of God. The concept must be present to have a stance either way.


But generally up until an autonomous age a child is considered of there parents religion regardless of there mental ability.

I say there is something for what Lana is saying - atheism is the complete lack of belief in a deity.

As for me - I am borderline agnostic/atheist. Cop out? Perhaps. I can't say 100% there is no God, so there is a tiny bit of room. However I believe in things in place of God - science, humanity. I don't believe there is a God, at all - though there is the incredibly unlikely chance there is one.

As such I would consider myself atheistic as I don't believe in a God, I don't think one exists, I think there is proof in science that makes the things in the Koran or Bible or whatever highly unlikely - to the point where I see no reason to entertain the idea of a God/gods.


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Old Post Oct 4th, 2006 02:40 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura


As such I would consider myself atheistic as I don't believe in a God, I don't think one exists, I think there is proof in science that makes the things in the Koran or Bible or whatever highly unlikely - to the point where I see no reason to entertain the idea of a God/gods. [/B]


Bare in mind that the Quran at least has yet to be contradicted by any advancements in science. wink

Old Post Oct 4th, 2006 02:42 AM
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Mark Question
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Regret
A decision is required to be atheist, you can't disbelieve or deny something you don't know about.


I'm not being literal... A newborn child has no concept of god, or religion, so I call a spade, a spade. You grow up isolated without the precense of religion(as many cultures have) and you will not know religion. Luckily we have the option to choose.
I choose atheism because religion suppresses free will, and curiosity IMO (Galileo, Socrates, Darwin, etc.). I get your argument... If you have a box you can't open, and A. says it's filled with feathers, and B. say's it's filled with leaves, then one is just as rational as the other, so why not be an Agnostic? IMO, religion pales in comparrison to science. The basic fundamentals of science have made monumental gains in regards to where we come from in the past 500 years. Poseidon dosen't cause earthquakes, we are not the center of the Universe, there was no great flood, fossil records, we share genes with chimps, mice, E. coli, etc... Plus, we're 1 Galaxy amongst billions, that makes religion very trivial in my eyes.


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Old Post Oct 4th, 2006 02:50 AM
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Regret
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
But generally up until an autonomous age a child is considered of there parents religion regardless of there mental ability.

I say there is something for what Lana is saying - atheism is the complete lack of belief in a deity.


I don't believe that a person without the concept of God can lack the belief, the concept of God must be present for such to be the case.


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Old Post Oct 4th, 2006 02:53 AM
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Regret
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Jim Reaper
I'm not being literal... A newborn child has no concept of god, or religion, so I call a spade, a spade. You grow up isolated without the precense of religion(as many cultures have) and you will not know religion. Luckily we have the option to choose.
I choose atheism because religion suppresses free will, and curiosity IMO (Galileo, Socrates, Darwin, etc.). I get your argument... If you have a box you can't open, and A. says it's filled with feathers, and B. say's it's filled with leaves, then one is just as rational as the other, so why not be an Agnostic? IMO, religion pales in comparrison to science. The basic fundamentals of science have made monumental gains in regards to where we come from in the past 500 years. Poseidon dosen't cause earthquakes, we are not the center of the Universe, there was no great flood, fossil records, we share genes with chimps, mice, E. coli, etc... Plus, we're 1 Galaxy amongst billions, that makes religion very trivial in my eyes.
I don't believe that science and religion are diametrically opposed. Science is in line with any rational religion. Science does not conflict with the concept of God. The concept of God does not conflict with science.


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Old Post Oct 4th, 2006 02:56 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Punkyhermy
I don't get atheists plain and simple.

That we are is a phenomenon proof enough.
That's like saying chocolate bars and rainbows are proof of unicorns.


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Old Post Oct 4th, 2006 02:59 AM
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Punkyhermy
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
That's like saying chocolate bars and rainbows are proof of unicorns.


What the f**k?
confused

Old Post Oct 4th, 2006 03:00 AM
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Imperial_Samura
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Regret
I don't believe that a person without the concept of God can lack the belief, the concept of God must be present for such to be the case.


Well then I guess it is theoretically possible that animals believe in God as well.

It comes, in this case, back to understanding. A person without the concept of God neither believes or disbelieves since that requires knowledge. They are, essentially, neutral. Lack of concept does not as a default put them in either of the categories - belief/disbelief.

A child before the age where they know of such thing does not believe, but at the same time they don't really disbelieve. As such they are neutral. When they reach an age where they grasp the concept they will fall into the categories - do they believe there is a God/gods (Theists) or not (Atheist.)


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Old Post Oct 4th, 2006 03:59 AM
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