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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: TV Series » Episode 22- Hostage Crisis


Episode 22- Hostage Crisis
Started by: Nactous

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Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

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Which makes it unfortunate that it wasn't done better.


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Old Post Mar 24th, 2009 08:43 PM
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Nactous
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Captain REX
It isn't. The television series holds a higher place in canon.


Says who?


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Old Post Mar 25th, 2009 03:10 AM
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Final Blaxican
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ordo
Well, in CANON [wink] Kenobi failed to kill Jango.


As noted. there was a giant starship shooting at him, and kenobi wanted him alive for questioning. Jango ran away anyway. Dude knew he was fighting a losing battle. kenobi floored him with a jump kick. no expression


quote:
Mace even had trouble getting the job done.


No "Canon" ever states this.

quote:
I disagree that Mandalorians are the Jedi's greatest adversary, that's for the Sith. But I disagree that they're irrelevant. There is much more in star wars than dudes with shiny sticks. I find a man going up against a demi-god to be much more intriguing than a bunch of overblown ego-wads dueling with light and lightning.


More interesting? Sure. Realistic? No. it's not realistic even within the Star Wars universe, which thrives on poor logic and fictional basis.

quote:
You combine individual skill with group tactics, 100s:1 kill ratios


In which case it wouldn't be a 100:1 ratio. stick out tongue

quote:
But again, I dont think the movie suggests that these are really occupying forces.


The issue is that I believe Traviss has stated that the Clone army was, in it's entirety, only 3 million men strong, which doesn't make any sense. It's nonsensical fellation IMO.

quote:
You have highly motile forces in any field and large bulk transports capable of moving entire armies within days. It seems combat is more jumping around than landing an army and marching on a planet. Seps seem to be more of an occupying force whereas the GAR engages the concentrated areas of the Seps and maintains external power structures. [/B]


But even then they'd still be outnumbered at least a hundred to one. It just... doesn't add up to me.


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Old Post Mar 25th, 2009 03:50 AM
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Gideon
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Karen Traviss's minimalism is a major problem with the series. The idea that the mighty Galactic Republic fielded only three million clones is completely and irretrievably stupid. An army that size wouldn't be able to take over and hold a single planet much less a galaxy with a million or better planets. If we take the ANH novelization at its world and the Empire consisted of a million worlds (the figure changes), you're talking three clones per planet.

No, sorry. Nine million isn't even good. The GAR needed to field many billions.

Old Post Mar 25th, 2009 05:09 AM
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queeq
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nactous
Says who?


Hold on, we don't know if the tv series is canon or not. For the time being we restrict ourselves to the series. Pure, undisputed EU stuff like Mandalorians go into the EU forum.


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Old Post Mar 25th, 2009 07:45 AM
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Ordo
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
As noted. there was a giant starship shooting at him, and kenobi wanted him alive for questioning. Jango ran away anyway. Dude knew he was fighting a losing battle. kenobi floored him with a jump kick. no expression


And Jango headbutted him and then dropped him off a ledge. Kenobi couldn't even anticipate the consequences of his kick. "Oh not good!" wth. Maybe Kenobi should stop drinking on the job.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
No "Canon" ever states this.


AOTC is canon. To me its obvious.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
More interesting? Sure. Realistic? No. it's not realistic even within the Star Wars universe, which thrives on poor logic and fictional basis.

Yet, we all complain about Anakin's fall to the darkside being unrealistic...etc. Sounds in space are one thing. I think this is a another.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
In which case it wouldn't be a 100:1 ratio. stick out tongue

Then we get into the 500:1s. smile Clones rule!

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
The issue is that I believe Traviss has stated that the Clone army was, in it's entirety, only 3 million men strong, which doesn't make any sense. It's nonsensical fellation IMO.

I agree. I think everyone does lol.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
But even then they'd still be outnumbered at least a hundred to one. It just... doesn't add up to me.
Clones are "immensely superior to droids" One clone isn't as effective (or as dumb) as one droid. It IS canon that the clones are vastly outnumbered. Thats whats makes the war interesting. If the clones were equal in # to droids, the war would have been over in weeks because the CIS army would have been wiped out.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Hold on, we don't know if the tv series is canon or not. For the time being we restrict ourselves to the series. Pure, undisputed EU stuff like Mandalorians go into the EU forum.


Mandalorians are pure canon. They are in 3 films.

Also the TV series is canon, its just not movie canon, but above all other EU. That has been WELL established. I know this breaks your precious system...


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Last edited by Ordo on Mar 25th, 2009 at 02:47 PM

Old Post Mar 25th, 2009 02:45 PM
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Gideon
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quote:
Originally posted by Ordo
AOTC is canon. To me its obvious.


Not at all.

I view it as Mace more or less negligently disposing of a possible irritant. To an accomplished Jedi like Mace? Jango is nothing.

Old Post Mar 25th, 2009 04:10 PM
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queeq
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ordo
Mandalorians are pure canon. They are in 3 films.

Also the TV series is canon, its just not movie canon, but above all other EU. That has been WELL established. I know this breaks your precious system...


For one, the TERM Mandalorian is canon. Who they were etc. that's all EU.

The tv series is not canon (yet) since that was never confirmed by Lucasfilm, our only authority on this matter. Ergo, its status is pending.


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Old Post Mar 26th, 2009 07:51 AM
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Hybris
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Anyway I sure hope Cad Bane will finally get rid of Asohka next season.


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Old Post Mar 26th, 2009 10:15 AM
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Ordo
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
For one, the TERM Mandalorian is canon. Who they were etc. that's all EU.


We have brains. We can observe how they talk, what they do, what they wear, how they think. This is termed observation and is an essential part of obtaining more information that meets the eye.

So no, its not ALL EU.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Hybris
Anyway I sure hope Cad Bane will finally get rid of Asohka next season.


You know it wont happen until the end. I don't want them to kill off the ONLY redeeming/developed character they've introduced into this series.

I hope they finally get their act together on the clones, that pisses me off FAR more than any brattish whining, which we already have to endure from Skywalker....Kenobi...


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Old Post Mar 26th, 2009 01:31 PM
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Nactous
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Hold on, we don't know if the tv series is canon or not. For the time being we restrict ourselves to the series. Pure, undisputed EU stuff like Mandalorians go into the EU forum.


Ill take that, as long as this isnt considerd canon...


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Old Post Mar 26th, 2009 03:15 PM
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queeq
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Again: the TERM Mandalorian is canon. There are no canon sources about who they were. So that's EU.


Anywho, saw the episode. Pretty nicely paced episode. Worked well.

The only scene I thought sucked was where the wounded Clone Trooper asks Aurra Singh for help... that is so not clone.


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Old Post Mar 27th, 2009 06:30 AM
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Ordo
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Again: the TERM Mandalorian is canon. There are no canon sources about who they were. So that's EU.


Its called interpretation, extrapolation. So yes, you can determine something, just not everything. Why do you deny this?



quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
The only scene I thought sucked was where the wounded Clone Trooper asks Aurra Singh for help... that is so not clone.


Senate Commandos are NOT clones, as shown in the films and Cloak of Darkness.


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Old Post Mar 27th, 2009 02:22 PM
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Ushgarak
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First of all, in absolutely no way at all has the tv series canon been determined; this is still a wait-and-see area. As far as this section is concerned, wer are not here to discuss the EU, just the tv (and by extension, the films are obviously canon to the tv series as well).

Secondly it is amazingly plain that Windu dispatched Jango with extreme ease; he was not even slightly troubled.

Thirdly- yup, sorry, any interpretation of what 'Mandalorian' means is all EU, and it is not appropriate to this area.

That's how it is; please do not argue it.


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Old Post Mar 27th, 2009 02:31 PM
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Nactous
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
First of all, in absolutely no way at all has the tv series canon been determined; this is still a wait-and-see area. As far as this section is concerned, wer are not here to discuss the EU, just the tv (and by extension, the films are obviously canon to the tv series as well).

Secondly it is amazingly plain that Windu dispatched Jango with extreme ease; he was not even slightly troubled.

Thirdly- yup, sorry, any interpretation of what 'Mandalorian' means is all EU, and it is not appropriate to this area.

That's how it is; please do not argue it.


Well then.....


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Old Post Mar 27th, 2009 03:54 PM
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Ordo
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Secondly it is amazingly plain that Windu dispatched Jango with extreme ease; he was not even slightly troubled.


Hence he had to jump of the balcony...erm

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Thirdly- yup, sorry, any interpretation of what 'Mandalorian' means is all EU, and it is not appropriate to this area.

That's how it is; please do not argue it.

Any interpretation? Seriously.

Lets Examine:

Both Boba and Jango were bounty hunters.
They are talented, skilled, and morally ambiguous.

Jango wanted a son.
Mandalorians are family men.

Young Boba new how to fly and demonstrated tactics from an early age. Tactical and combat skill are important Mandalorian values.

Jango and Boba worked as a team.
Father son relationships are important. Children are expected to perform.

Both spoke and understood a non-basic, uncommon language (Kenobi didn't appear to understand it).
Basic is not their primary languange.

Both wear the same style armor, but in different colors with slight modifications.
Armor is an important part of Mandalorian culture, but so is expressing a degree of customization and individuality.

We can't interpret this? Seriously? ALL of what I'm talking about now, 100%, is interpreted from the films. AOTC. ESB. ROTJ. Its simply asinine and ignorant to claim that you can't interpret ANYTHING from two characters that get more screentime and dialogue than major villians (Dooku, etc) in the saga. The 4th largest figure on the AOTC poster is JANGO, behind Skywalker, Amidala, and Kenobi. Mandalorians are important to the films. They get a lot of screentime for sideline characters. Any twit who thinks about movies instead of just watching them can interpret beyond what is spoken in a film.

I wouldn't argue it here if what I was arguing was EU. I've been here for years and I know the rules. I'm arguing because queeq made an ignorant statement, which you repeated.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
There are no canon sources about who they were. So that's EU.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
any interpretation of what 'Mandalorian' means is all EU


Do you deny that the floors on the Death Star were shiny? Because no one in the movie comment "Damn! These floors are shiny!"

Likewise, do you deny the Emperor was evil? Or that the Empire was oppressive? That Luke had a somewhat tenuous relationship with Owen and Beru? That the rebels felt a moral right in fighting the Empire?

All these things are interpretations from the films. You and queeq would claim they are EU under your current logic. If you disagree that they are EU, you two should stop being hypocrites and allow me some interpretation under the films. Not on EU sources. On the films.


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Old Post Mar 27th, 2009 05:12 PM
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-Pr-
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Mace jumped off the balcony because of Jango AND the two super battle droids who were shooting at him. it wasn't just jango. not to mention Dooku standing right there.

also, set him on fire? his robe got a bit singed, and that's pretty much it.

then Mace did this:



there's very little if any evidence that jango would give mace trouble one on one, imo.

and the Obi-Wan that fought Jango stood up to him with his hands tied and no lightsaber. and there was the big frickin ship nearby too.


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Old Post Mar 27th, 2009 06:28 PM
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Nactous
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ordo

Do you deny that the floors on the Death Star were shiny? Because no one in the movie comment "Damn! These floors are shiny!"

Likewise, do you deny the Emperor was evil? Or that the Empire was oppressive? That Luke had a somewhat tenuous relationship with Owen and Beru? That the rebels felt a moral right in fighting the Empire?

All these things are interpretations from the films. You and queeq would claim they are EU under your current logic. If you disagree that they are EU, you two should stop being hypocrites and allow me some interpretation under the films. Not on EU sources. On the films.


Those are all some weak examples because they are all pretty much visually self explanatory.

Not everything needs to be spelled out, people do have eyes to see these things afterall.


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Last edited by Nactous on Mar 28th, 2009 at 03:29 AM

Old Post Mar 28th, 2009 03:25 AM
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queeq
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ordo
Hence he had to jump of the balcony...erm


Any interpretation? Seriously.

Lets Examine:

Both Boba and Jango were bounty hunters.
They are talented, skilled, and morally ambiguous.

Jango wanted a son.
Mandalorians are family men.

Young Boba new how to fly and demonstrated tactics from an early age. Tactical and combat skill are important Mandalorian values.

Jango and Boba worked as a team.
Father son relationships are important. Children are expected to perform.

Both spoke and understood a non-basic, uncommon language (Kenobi didn't appear to understand it).
Basic is not their primary languange.

Both wear the same style armor, but in different colors with slight modifications.
Armor is an important part of Mandalorian culture, but so is expressing a degree of customization and individuality.

We can't interpret this? Seriously? ALL of what I'm talking about now, 100%, is interpreted from the films. AOTC. ESB. ROTJ. Its simply asinine and ignorant to claim that you can't interpret ANYTHING from two characters that get more screentime and dialogue than major villians (Dooku, etc) in the saga. The 4th largest figure on the AOTC poster is JANGO, behind Skywalker, Amidala, and Kenobi. Mandalorians are important to the films. They get a lot of screentime for sideline characters. Any twit who thinks about movies instead of just watching them can interpret beyond what is spoken in a film.

I wouldn't argue it here if what I was arguing was EU. I've been here for years and I know the rules. I'm arguing because queeq made an ignorant statement, which you repeated.



This all stems from a concept that Jango and Boba are in fact Mandalorians. I know their armour was considered Mandalorian, but I can't remember any canon source saying they are Mandalorian themselves.


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Old Post Mar 28th, 2009 11:22 AM
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REXXXX
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In any case, I just watched the episode. Floppy hat aside, Cad Bane was actually pretty bad ass and the episode did a good job of portraying the bad guys as bad people, rather than incompetent idiots that the Jedi can mow down.


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Old Post Mar 29th, 2009 10:12 PM
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