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IGN - Top 100 villains
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Kris Blaze
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Juntai
Lucifer, from Vertigo?
Good read, great character, I have all the individual issues bagged and boarded. smile

But as I said, I never claimed Joker was the best here, so I don't know what you're getting at.


If you're going to jump into a discussion I'm having with Philosophia, then have the courtesy to actually join the ACTUAL TOPIC. If all you're going to bring are some poorly executed attempts at instignating me, then I suggest you simply stay out.

As I've told Philosophia several times, I am commenting the claims that Joker should have been number 1.


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2009 02:43 PM
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Juntai
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
If you're going to jump into a discussion I'm having with Philosophia, then have the courtesy to actually join the ACTUAL TOPIC. If all you're going to bring are some poorly executed attempts at instignating me, then I suggest you simply stay out.

As I've told Philosophia several times, I am commenting the claims that Joker should have been number 1.
I jumped into the discussion and added commentary that was completely appropriate and relevant, citing issues and events that Joker has participated in and things he's accomplished.

I wasn't instigating you at all, you got childish in frustration on your own.


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2009 02:48 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Juntai
I jumped into the discussion and added commentary that was completely appropriate and relevant, citing issues and events that Joker has participated in and things he's accomplished.

I wasn't instigating you at all, you got childish in frustration on your own.


Please, don't try and play Quanchi's game. Mods are starting to catch up on that stuff, I suggest you apologize and back out.


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2009 02:52 PM
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Juntai
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Please, don't try and play Quanchi's game. Mods are starting to catch up on that stuff, I suggest you apologize and back out.
When you both told me to shut the **** up, and called me a stupid ass, and acted generally belligerent while I was discussing comics and events relevant to the topic. . .you think I should apologize?

Please.

The mods can see it for themselves.

But, I'll run along somewhere else for a while, you've already derailed this thread enough for me to not care.


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2009 02:58 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Juntai
When you both told me to shut the **** up, and called me a stupid ass, and acted generally belligerent while I was discussing comics and events relevant to the topic. . .you think I should apologize?

Please.

The mods can see it for themselves.

But, I'll run along somewhere else for a while, you've already derailed this thread enough for me to not care.


Seriously man, I've called you on your bullshit. I suggest you give it up now. Making up things, constantly calling me childish, twisting feats into something they are not and being overall condescending. Thin ice son, thin ice.


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2009 03:01 PM
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xJLxKing
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I still think Lex, or Joker should be Number 1.


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2009 03:19 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
I still think Lex, or Joker should be Number 1.


Lex should be.

Joker deserves a spot in top 5, but he's not number 1 in my opinion.


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2009 03:20 PM
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xJLxKing
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Lex should be.

Joker deserves a spot in top 5, but he's not number 1 in my opinion.

Yes, Lex like you said before, represents all humans. He is what were are if we let out jealousy, and other stuff get the best of us. He
He did things that were very big in scale. Besides that, he was always the opposite of Batman. Even in the movies, he did somethings that most people could only dream of. He is just that good.


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2009 03:27 PM
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Deadline
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Juntai
It's a matter of WHO did it, not who COULD have. Get it?


Maybe im wrong but giving Joker the credit for killing Alex is taking the complete and utter 100% piss. I dont think theres really anything to understand you just seem to be trying to twist logic around to justify something which isnt a big deal at all.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Besides that, he was always the opposite of Batman. Even in the movies, he did somethings that most people could only dream of. He is just that good.


Well were talking about comics not movies. I think Joker is overated.


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2009 03:28 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Maybe im wrong but giving Joker the credit for killing Alex is taking the complete and utter 100% piss. I dont think theres really anything to understand you just seem to be trying to twist logic around to justify something which isnt a big deal at all.
He did kill Alex.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Juntai

And, I mentioned the Alexander thing, in tallying up some things Joker has done, that have a lasting impact. If you think hitting
[random civilian A] in his car driving Robin around, is more impressive than killing Alexander Luthor in that regard, or that killing a church of nuns is more impressive than Joker putting Gotham on Lock in several stories, or nearly taking down Earth with him in last laugh, then I don't know what to say to you.


Downplay it all you like, Joker got into a universe-spanning event, and killed the main bad-guy. smile
That's major, in and of itself.
Perfectly relatable to a thread like this, when you ask what types of things has a character done.


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Last edited by Juntai on Jun 30th, 2009 at 03:36 PM

Old Post Jun 30th, 2009 03:31 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Lex should be.

Joker deserves a spot in top 5, but he's not number 1 in my opinion.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Juntai
I'm a big fan of Lex too.
Back on page 2, when I saw you mention Lex. wink


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2009 03:32 PM
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Deadline
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Juntai
He did kill Alex.


Ermm the point is that Lex could have done it himself. In fact both of them simply waited for him to be depowered and then waited for the right moment, its something that alot of other villains could have done. Your blowing things out of proportion.

That quote isnt really that relevant to me except the first line you seem to not understand how killing Alex is NOT a big deal at all. However hes not really more impressive than alot of other villains if were talkling about things hes done.


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2009 03:36 PM
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Juntai
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ermm the point is that Lex could have done it himself. In fact both of them simply waited for him to be depowered and then waited for the right moment, its something that alot of other villains could have done. Your blowing things out of proportion.

That quote isnt really that relevant to me except the first line you seem to not understand how killing Alex is NOT a big deal at all. However hes not really more impressive than alot of other villains if were talkling about things hes done.
No, you're not understanding. I'll repeat- It's WHO did it, not would COULD have. Alexander Luthor, a major baddies story, ended [so far, as they can always come back] in that alley with Joker. Sure, Black Adam could have slapped him into a piece of modern art with a casual backhand at that point, but it was Joker that accomplished it. It's not about power, it's about significance. Why do you think people are siding with guys like Lex and Joker at all? Their mark, their symbolism, and significance.

Depends on your viewpoint and context of impressive. Joker is an impressive villain. His mark on the world and the heros that inhabit it, physically and psychologically tell us so.


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Last edited by Juntai on Jun 30th, 2009 at 03:48 PM

Old Post Jun 30th, 2009 03:46 PM
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Philosophía
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
The Emperor Joker stuff didn't happen under his own power. Tricking an idiot into somehow mystically giving you MORE power than he wanted to, which should by all rigths be impossible. Those weren't exactly lasting changes either. He's harrassing Gordon, a ****ing police officer. What is so great about this? There are people in real life who can pull off this shit.

In fact, I was more impressed by Green Goblin's actions. His "A death in the family" portrayed Norman's insanity and the effect he had on Peter to a greater degree than the Joker. And hey, he killed Peter's girlfriend AND best friend. Not to mention the things he did to Gwen Stacy BEFORE any of these murderous events took place.

And he has only ALMOST driven them to murder. I realize that this might be more due to the limitation placed upon the writers. In the end, the death of Jason Todd only made Batman MORE firm in his belief not to kill anyone. "It would be too easy" practically revealed a much greater and deeper understanding that he did not possess before Jason died. Then again, this doesn't weigh against the Joker. Since he furthered character development.

In then end, I don't see what's impressive about almost convincing people to kill someone. Doomsday pulled this off in a single storyline. Lasting effect, Superman took a life, he offed a major character and beat a team of super-heros.

That bias seems to be messing up your perception too now. Supposedly I HATE the joker because I do not grant him top spot as a super villain? What the FUKC man? How can you even say that? You're so elitist that simply because I prefer a different character I hate the Joker? A thousand pardons for not buying into half-assed accomplishments and assistance from nigh-omnipotent characters.


This.. doesn't make any sense. You're ignoring what he did in Emperor Joker because what he did was with Mxy's powerset and not his ? Do you expect a street-level character like the Joker to one-shot Universes under his own power ? Or perhaps you want him to go on a 'Joker quest' in trying to gain an artifact of great power ? And there weren't any lasting changes because they took advantage of the loophole (Batman) and with the help of Spectre and Mxy everything was repaired. This, and Superman taking the traumatizing memories from Batman which concerned what happened during that period, with Bruce being repeatedly killed.

He went to the comissioner's house, shot his daughter, kidnapped him, stripped him naked and chained him, then took him for a ride and showed him pictures of his naked, bleeding, crying daughter just to drive him insane, to prove a point. And you're oversimplifying it by saying "there are people in real life who would do this shit".

"In then end, I don't see what's impressive about almost convincing people to kill someone." Jesus. It's not just any guy, it's Batman, and the point is that he has produced so much damage to Batman's life that he was ready to kill him when he found out that he killed another person from his life. Batman, who is probably the most strict superhero when it comes to taking a life.

You admited that he is great character wise. It has been proven that not only does he have great acomplishments on a street/personal level, but on a global (Joker: The Last Laugh) and even DCU-level (Emperor Joker). You acknowledge them or not, it's the same thing to me. He is a great villain and in my, and many people's view, the greatest. It's a matter of taste and honestly, I've got better things to do than to convince you that Joker is better than other villains, which can't happen anyway since you already made up your mind.


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Last edited by Philosophía on Jun 30th, 2009 at 04:04 PM

Old Post Jun 30th, 2009 03:57 PM
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Juntai
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It's completely up to opinion anyways. People gravitate towards whoever they personally connect with on some level, and I don't think debating will really change any of that.
That's why I was merely countering points, rather than offering up my own favorite character for presentation and try to debate to make people feel they should like him the most too.


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2009 03:59 PM
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Interesting villain discussion.......

http://revision3.com/ifanboy/comicbookvillains


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2009 04:41 PM
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Also, as I stated way back on page 1, MAGNETO IS NOT A PURE VILLAIN. He's a well intentioned extremist. His "evil" is entirely debatable. At times, he's even switched to being a good guy or repenting his acts.

Hence, why someone like Lex, Joker, Darkseid, Sinestro, Red Skull, or even Green Goblin is a superior pick.

Lucifer is NOT a villain.


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2009 04:44 PM
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Digi
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Juntai and Kris, you're both going to have to cool it. Anything further from either of you will result in a warning.

I also don't appreciate the backseat moderating, telling other what they should and shouldn't be posting, or making demands. This is in addition to the curses and insults, and is just as punishable.

And Kris, he disagreed with you and wasn't trying to be friendly, but neither were his comments an insult. You were the first to resort to swearing and insults. You're going to have to learn to take the high road in such situations, and be able to make the distinction between disagreement and an attack. That doesn't mean he didn't antagonize you once it started, which is why you're both being warned, but it certainly wouldn't have escalated without your reaction.

If you have further concerns, PM me. Any post in response to this in this thread will be treated harshly.


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2009 04:52 PM
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Kris Blaze
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Also, as I stated way back on page 1, MAGNETO IS NOT A PURE VILLAIN. He's a well intentioned extremist. His "evil" is entirely debatable. At times, he's even switched to being a good guy or repenting his acts.

Hence, why someone like Lex, Joker, Darkseid, Sinestro, Red Skull, or even Green Goblin is a superior pick.

Lucifer is NOT a villain.


I'm fairly certain Lex Luthor saved the day in Last Son of Krypton. Just like Darkseid helped out against Imperiex.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Yes, Lex like you said before, represents all humans. He is what were are if we let out jealousy, and other stuff get the best of us. He did things that were very big in scale. Besides that, he was always the opposite of Batman. Even in the movies, he did somethings that most people could only dream of. He is just that good.


Yup, Lex is the man. What they wrote about him on IGN made it seem like they were talking about Doctor Sivana or some mad scientist. Which Lex sort of is, he just deviates from the stereotype in a reall awesome way.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Digi
And Kris, he disagreed with you and wasn't trying to be friendly, but neither were his comments an insult. You were the first to resort to swearing and insults. You're going to have to learn to take the high road in such situations, and be able to make the distinction between disagreement and an attack. That doesn't mean he didn't antagonize you once it started, which is why you're both being warned, but it certainly wouldn't have escalated without your reaction.


I'll take that to heart.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Philosophía
This.. doesn't make any sense. You're ignoring what he did in Emperor Joker because what he did was with Mxy's powerset and not his ? Do you expect a street-level character like the Joker to one-shot Universes under his own power ? Or perhaps you want him to go on a 'Joker quest' in trying to gain an artifact of great power ? And there weren't any lasting changes because they took advantage of the loophole (Batman) and with the help of Spectre and Mxy everything was repaired. This, and Superman taking the traumatizing memories from Batman which concerned what happened during that period, with Bruce being repeatedly killed.


I'm not going to continue this, but there's a reason why I'm not considering Thanos for the top spots.

Stop addressing me like I absolutely loathe Joker. I don't hate him, I don't dislike him, I don't even think he's average. I love the joker, but for some reason he MUST be the top dog? Get the feeling that if I had said "The Joker is great, but someone else is top in my mind" instead of "Yes, that's okay, but I'm not as impressed by that storyline and that" Get off it already.

You don't need to recap the events of EVERY story where he did something impressive. I know what happened in the killing joke, I KNOW. We've heard about how he shot Batgirl freaking 20 times already, let the feat lie.


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Last edited by Kris Blaze on Jun 30th, 2009 at 06:59 PM

Old Post Jun 30th, 2009 06:49 PM
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Allankles
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well were talking about comics not movies. I think Joker is overated.


It's fair to say that in the comics for the most part Joker has become tame. He's become too familiar, but at his core he's a top 10 comic book villain.


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