Wolverine vs. Spider-Man

Started by CorderaMitchell1,019 pages

Originally posted by The MISTER
Jinzin how did you ever consider Creshosk's debating skills to be better than yours?

No offence Cresh but you have failed to rebut my post about the "facts" and even produced a sloppy implication that I was a fanboy.nono

I am almost positive that jinzin will at least attempt to rebut the post but if you continue to ignore it, I will have to assume that you cannot produce a rebutal.

Creshosk you should rebut or submit but you WILL do one or the other....

😮‍💨

True..

Jinzin at leasts makes up an explanation, he tries.

Originally posted by jinzin
well he is better at debating than I am....he's able to more easily correlate points and how he got to those points than I do....my posts are often confusing.....well to cordera at least....

I will rebute it I just want to give it the proper attention to do so...

It confuses me on how you think wolverine can beat carnage, because he knows he's crazy.

What kind of fu##ing argument is that?

I'll admit it wasn't much of an argument based on abilities whatsoever...but I remember what was going through my mind at the time.....his encounter with mr. x..............

okay if you don't know let us just revise what happened....wolverine the evening before fought mr. x's personal army....it never states how many of these guys there were....but over the course of their engagenent they found out a ton about wolverine's durability, healing ability, and super-human like traits....considering it showed how fast wolverine was hacking his way through these guys a few times and he was taking out half a dozen to a dozen at a time...I'm left to guess that these guys they were able to keep logan occupies long enough for mr. x to send his special assassins to get logan....they were all a step above military training as logan pointed out...to their own admission they shot logan stabbed him blew him up and torched and he was just laughing it off. I'm led to believe there were at least 50 or more men to have kept him occupied for so long...possibly 100...then logan fought mr. x's assassins who were supposedly some of the deadliest in the world....they shot him, stabbed him, choked him, cut him...and he still didn't go down...
THEN he fought mr. x. who promptly kicked his ass all over the place....however...after finding out about what a sadistic guy x really was..logan's eyes went red ke broke out of retraints....(which ironically enough had him in a most uncomprimising position) and then started an all out assault on x dispite his past night's battle...logan went into berserker his fighting ability and speed all increased...x shot him point blank with a tommy gun....wolverine just kept comin....x gutted him with a spear...wolverine just kept comin....x set him on fire with a flame thrower...wolverine just kept comin....nothing x did seemed to matter at all to logan and logan just kept walking right through everything he had.... I envisioned logan in that same mindframe...carnage would be standing there using his tnedrils like crazy and wolverine would be slashing the shit out of them closing ground at the same time...just like he did with venom...carnage could and would stab him over and over and over but logan in that mindframe wouldn't even notice...eventually logan would close ground and one good shot to the host inside the symbiote fights over and he wins.... NOW...that's what I thought at the time...after going over it and giving more thought into the situation I did however CHANGE MY MIND, and I've stated that carnage would win against logan as the most likely scenario...but again in my defense, it's not entirely illogical to say wolverine would stand a chance against him....he has taken on classic and enhanced venom several times and held his own...no reason to think that carnage heavily outclasses venom when they fight venom beats the tar out of him more times than not...in that same token I don't see wolverin holding his own to carnage as really that huge of a leap.... I'll admit that arguement wasn't a good one..and I didn't put too much thought into it at first..but like so many of your other posts...what the hell does that have to do with THIS DEBATE....where I've given plenty of explainations for my reasoning, proof to back it up, and spent oviously more time into creating and supporting my conclusion?

you're trying to discredit me for something which I already admitted that i was wrong and offered the alternate answer on several different occasions...that's illogical....

Originally posted by jinzin
I'll admit it wasn't much of an argument based on abilities whatsoever...but I remember what was going through my mind at the time.....his encounter with mr. x..............

okay if you don't know let us just revise what happened....wolverine the evening before fought mr. x's personal army....it never states how many of these guys there were....but over the course of their engagenent they found out a ton about wolverine's durability, healing ability, and super-human like traits....considering it showed how fast wolverine was hacking his way through these guys a few times and he was taking out half a dozen to a dozen at a time...I'm left to guess that these guys they were able to keep logan occupies long enough for mr. x to send his special assassins to get logan....they were all a step above military training as logan pointed out...to their own admission they shot logan stabbed him blew him up and torched and he was just laughing it off. I'm led to believe there were at least 50 or more men to have kept him occupied for so long...possibly 100...then logan fought mr. x's assassins who were supposedly some of the deadliest in the world....they shot him, stabbed him, choked him, cut him...and he still didn't go down...
THEN he fought mr. x. who promptly kicked his ass all over the place....however...after finding out about what a sadistic guy x really was..logan's eyes went red ke broke out of retraints....(which ironically enough had him in a most uncomprimising position) and then started an all out assault on x dispite his past night's battle...logan went into berserker his fighting ability and speed all increased...x shot him point blank with a tommy gun....wolverine just kept comin....x gutted him with a spear...wolverine just kept comin....x set him on fire with a flame thrower...wolverine just kept comin....nothing x did seemed to matter at all to logan and logan just kept walking right through everything he had.... I envisioned logan in that same mindframe...carnage would be standing there using his tnedrils like crazy and wolverine would be slashing the shit out of them closing ground at the same time...just like he did with venom...carnage could and would stab him over and over and over but logan in that mindframe wouldn't even notice...eventually logan would close ground and one good shot to the host inside the symbiote fights over and he wins.... NOW...that's what I thought at the time...after going over it and giving more thought into the situation I did however CHANGE MY MIND, and I've stated that carnage would win against logan as the most likely scenario...but again in my defense, it's not entirely illogical to say wolverine would stand a chance against him....he has taken on classic and enhanced venom several times and held his own...no reason to think that carnage heavily outclasses venom when they fight venom beats the tar out of him more times than not...in that same token I don't see wolverin holding his own to carnage as really that huge of a leap.... I'll admit that arguement wasn't a good one..and I didn't put too much thought into it at first..but like so many of your other posts...what the hell does that have to do with THIS DEBATE....where I've given plenty of explainations for my reasoning, proof to back it up, and spent oviously more time into creating and supporting my conclusion?

you're trying to discredit me for something which I already admitted that i was wrong and offered the alternate answer on several different occasions...that's illogical....

fair enough, lets drop it then, its irrelevant friend. 😮‍💨

Originally posted by jinzin
I'll agree to this for the most part...but that fact still remains...if they are in a battleground with high walls...wolverine doesn't have to be dumb enough to attempt to engage him up on a wall where he can't follow anyways...if that's the case..wolverine can just as easily take cover behind a wall or tree until spiderman comes back down......that said i always envision these fights to take place out in the middle of bum****nowhere because that's truley a test of character vs. character at their best.....giving characters environmental advantages takes away from the logical nature of a one on one fight....much like how spiderman's disadvantage of holding back has been taken away from him for the purposes of these fights.

He won't engage him, but he can't go up there,if wolverine's in bloodlust he'll want to fight, this can be used against him.

Originally posted by jinzin
true again...however, again his ranged capabilities are nullified by wolverine's claws....sabretooth's done this, lizards done this, and ummm wolverine's done this.....while spiderman's a decent tactician wolverine's better.....and classic spiderman's web cartridges run out....considering the likelyhood spiderman has to work with of incapicating wolverine via webbing before that happens, it's pretty safe to assume that he'll run out before this fights finished...

Not nullified much as it would seem, for example a bullet would hut captain america, his shield nullifies them sure enough, but spiderman has a MUCH larger area to concentrate on targeting, than the claws, and spiderman has INDEED proven he could do it.

Originally posted by jinzin
no wolverine will not do exhaust spiderman quickly...but that does not change thefact that in the long run wolverine will exhaust him...especially if this were to get into a h2h...as we've already seen how fatigued spidey was from his encounter with logan...

In hand to hand the problem is that wolverine relies on strength and speed to overcome his opponents. Spiderman being MUCH faster, stronger, and agile, his ability is nullified. Wolverine's claws simply don't make up for the lack of options he has.

Originally posted by jinzin
actually he can cut it, take cover (assuming environment), and evade it completely.

Why would he get away? The point is to make them not operative as possible, spiderman knows logan, so he should be able to do this.

Originally posted by jinzin
true but again he doesn't have to FOLLOW anywhere..he can wait....given his healing factor he can wait a LONG while longer than spidey.....

Why would he wait? Peter isn't running just keeping his distance, in that case wolverine has little chance of winning, he would have to come near to have a chance.

Originally posted by jinzin
he can be hindered no doubt..but defeated is another story...it's much like saying upclose one slice from wolvie will hinder spidey...

Agreed, but if he is incapacitated, isn't that a defeat?

Originally posted by jinzin
no it's not...if he is completely immobilized...than yes I agree....however the chances of him being so are slim at best....

Not quite. Wolverine has more trouble disarming the webbing than peter has of putting it on him, much more so. Insects COULD be useful to annoy or something. (Just finding a use for it.)lol

Originally posted by jinzin
and again..he has to be put in the most of uncomprimisig positions for that to ring true....the chances of putting him in said positions are more often than not...slim....

Not for peter it isn't he's extremely coordinated and can web far away small and moving targets with perfect precision, wolverine is just a large enough target it isn't that difficult.

Originally posted by jinzin
yes...much in the same way one good hit to face from wolvie to spidey would end the fight thus making wolverine the winner...it's all a matter of who's getting the ben of the doubt...

It is, but with the claws out, peter takes this seriously, and there's precog.

Dock ock has more precise , self thinking, faster and more lethal weapons with more applications, so this shouldn't be so bad.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
He won't engage him, but he can't go up there,if wolverine's in bloodlust he'll want to fight, this can be used against him.

this is nothing more than hipocritical....does spiderman jump 30 into the air when he's in his normal state of mind? hardly...whenever he has to fight guys like the lizard, rhino, tombstone, etc....he does end up getting into h2h confrontations...but he'd be jumping in the air 30 feet to assume an advantage? ok I'll buy that...but then saying that wolverine will be more eager to engage spidey in a place where he's so heavily disadvantaged because he is in bloodlust mode is ridiculous, when both these characters are supposed to have the same amount of hostility...by your own argument, spiderman will be in bloodlust mode...so he will want to engage in h2h will he not? that theory works against spiderman no less than it does against wolverine....

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Not nullified much as it would seem, for example a bullet would hut captain america, his shield nullifies them sure enough, but spiderman has a MUCH larger area to concentrate on targeting, than the claws, and spiderman has INDEED proven he could do it.

what exactly do you mean by this...whether your grasp on the concept you just presented is lacking or not....you just implied that the target spiderman is working with is larger than the one that the guys shooting at cap have...that's not right logan's much smaller than cap....clarify...

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
In hand to hand the problem is that wolverine relies on strength and speed to overcome his opponents. Spiderman being MUCH faster, stronger, and agile, his ability is nullified. Wolverine's claws simply don't make up for the lack of options he has.

no he doesn't..that's just an opinionated statement...wolverine's claws don't need a tremendous amount of strength to be able to shred through most of if not all materials in the marvel universe.....wolverine's strength is possibly slightly about a peak human's sure..but punching power..that's something else entirely...in a fist fight...wolverine KOed a guy that's at the least 4 times more physically stronger than spiderman is....thus while spiderman has a huge lifting advantage...hit for hit wolverine could probably knock him out with fists alone....add in the claws. and wolverine's strength cieses to matter...because the claws don't need strength to go through saw spiderman...or his webbing....wolverie relies on a TON of different factors...he relies on speed, skill, tactical/strategic thinking, strength (but really what melee fighter doesn't?), durability, stamina, his healing factor, anticipation, adaptation, and improvisation...clearly he uses more than just brute strength and speed....and has been credited for it numerous times...you obviously don't get that and continue to argue that he can't or doesn't apply his fighting ability when he's ALWAYS been noted for being one of the best h2h fighters in the MU....so i really didn't expect much more from you than this...it's about the equivalent of me saying..spiderman just uses his speed and strength to help him win fights....I'm sure about 20 different other factors popped into your head that spiderman uses that isn't just speed or strength....see? that's an illogical and flawed statement...

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Why would he get away? The point is to make them not operative as possible, spiderman knows logan, so he should be able to do this.

again...this doesn't make much sense...please clarify...i assume youmean why would spiderman let wolverine get away? well he wouldn't but being 30 feet on a building, it's gonna be kinda hard to be able to nail logan with webbs in an urban environment....for instance...logan was under a car and surrounded by 40 to 100 well trained soldiers...once they determined his position they shot the shit out of the car and blew it up in 2 panals...by the time the explosion happened...wolverine had already crawled his way down the street about 3 or 4 cars to evade the explosion...that's hauling ass....spiderman's webbs are no faster than bullets..how would he hit logan from 30 feet away if logan plays it smart? he wouldn't....and spiderman knows logan?...pffft..logan knows spiderman...what's your point?

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Why would he wait? Peter isn't running just keeping his distance, in that case wolverine has little chance of winning, he would have to come near to have a chance.

again...you're not followig trains of thought...if spiderman's 30 feet up on a wall..he's obviously not near wolverine...wolverine thus could wait for him to come back down below....

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Agreed, but if he is incapacitated, isn't that a defeat?

yes it is..unfortunately it's not within spiderman's capibilities to do unless wolverine is just standing there letting himself be webbed by a spiderman sitting 30 feet in the air....

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Not quite. Wolverine has more trouble disarming the webbing than peter has of putting it on him, much more so. Insects COULD be useful to annoy or something. (Just finding a use for it.)lol

how so? the last time I checked spiderman had two webshooters and wolverine had two sets of claws..gonna be hard to completely engulf wolverine in webbing when they are coming in linear strands from a single direction...as opposed to when he literally slashed his way out of being engulfed by the entirety of the venom symbiote because he was slashing away so fast..and the symbiote came at him from every angle....

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Not for peter it isn't he's extremely coordinated and can web far away small and moving targets with perfect precision, wolverine is just a large enough target it isn't that difficult.

check example above....🙄

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
It is, but with the claws out, peter takes this seriously, and there's precog.

precog that's done little else than warn him of the up and coming ass beating he's about to recieve from almost any extraordianarily good h2h fighter...wolverine definitely falls into this category...

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Dock ock has more precise , self thinking, faster and more lethal weapons with more applications, so this shouldn't be so bad.

hmmmmmmmm daredevil beat up doc ock....wolverine put daredevil in a full nelson by the second panal of a fight...do the math...

Originally posted by jinzin
this is nothing more than hipocritical....does spiderman jump 30 into the air when he's in his normal state of mind? hardly...whenever he has to fight guys like the lizard, rhino, tombstone, etc....he does end up getting into h2h confrontations...but he'd be jumping in the air 30 feet to assume an advantage? ok I'll buy that...but then saying that wolverine will be more eager to engage spidey in a place where he's so heavily disadvantaged because he is in bloodlust mode is ridiculous, when both these characters are supposed to have the same amount of hostility...by your own argument, spiderman will be in bloodlust mode...so he will want to engage in h2h will he not? that theory works against spiderman no less than it does against wolverine....

Fighting to the best of abilities, why would wolverine be near spiderman to a wall, stop and turn around, doesn't make much sense to me. Picture yourself enraged, you chase me, I'm only higher than you, so you turn around and leave.

Originally posted by jinzin
what exactly do you mean by this...whether your grasp on the concept you just presented is lacking or not....you just implied that the target spiderman is working with is larger than the one that the guys shooting at cap have...that's not right logan's much smaller than cap....clarify...

No, the target of his body is MUCH more than the claws, spiderman is skilled, he can easily shoot logans body, and logan falls if its in the legs, otherwise he stops to get rid of it, a critical mistake.

Originally posted by jinzin
no he doesn't..that's just an opinionated statement...wolverine's claws don't need a tremendous amount of strength to be able to shred through most of if not all materials in the marvel universe.....wolverine's strength is possibly slightly about a peak human's sure..but punching power..that's something else entirely...in a fist fight...wolverine KOed a guy that's at the least 4 times more physically stronger than spiderman is....thus while spiderman has a huge lifting advantage...hit for hit wolverine could probably knock him out with fists alone....add in the claws. and wolverine's strength cieses to matter...because the claws don't need strength to go through saw spiderman...or his webbing....wolverie relies on a TON of different factors...he relies on speed, skill, tactical/strategic thinking, strength (but really what melee fighter doesn't?), durability, stamina, his healing factor, anticipation, adaptation, and improvisation...clearly he uses more than just brute strength and speed....and has been credited for it numerous times...you obviously don't get that and continue to argue that he can't or doesn't apply his fighting ability when he's ALWAYS been noted for being one of the best h2h fighters in the MU....so i really didn't expect much more from you than this...it's about the equivalent of me saying..spiderman just uses his speed and strength to help him win fights....I'm sure about 20 different other factors popped into your head that spiderman uses that isn't just speed or strength....see? that's an illogical and flawed statement...

Not my point, fighting h2h uses more than speed and strength, but guess which are the main factors. Speed and strength, the stronger the muscle in a body the faster it moves.
Where you get that he is credited in one thing, but does he apply it,no!
He doesn't need to, wolverine doesnt dodge bullets and attacks as often as he gets hit by them purposefully, this is apparent to everyone but you.

Originally posted by jinzin
again...this doesn't make much sense...please clarify...i assume youmean why would spiderman let wolverine get away? well he wouldn't but being 30 feet on a building, it's gonna be kinda hard to be able to nail logan with webbs in an urban environment....for instance...logan was under a car and surrounded by 40 to 100 well trained soldiers...once they determined his position they shot the shit out of the car and blew it up in 2 panals...by the time the explosion happened...wolverine had already crawled his way down the street about 3 or 4 cars to evade the explosion...that's hauling ass....spiderman's webbs are no faster than bullets..how would he hit logan from 30 feet away if logan plays it smart? he wouldn't....and spiderman knows logan?...pffft..logan knows spiderman...what's your point?

He's coordinted enough to nail fast enough targets with more momentum far away, play it smart or not, wolverine isn't physically capable to AVOID spiderman's webbing, comic or not.
Spiderman knows logan enough to make the claws useless while webbing, not following trains of thought there.

Originally posted by jinzin
again...you're not followig trains of thought...if spiderman's 30 feet up on a wall..he's obviously not near wolverine...wolverine thus could wait for him to come back down below....

I'm not following yours because it isn't accurate, why couldn't he web, spiderman has EQUAL or moreso, fighting in options in the air and on the walls, logans a ground fighter and needs peter on his terms, a disadvantage.

Originally posted by jinzin
yes it is..unfortunately it's not within spiderman's capibilities to do unless wolverine is just standing there letting himself be webbed by a spiderman sitting 30 feet in the air....

30 feet is only ten yards, peter has hit smaller and faster moving targets with ease, I simply disagree.

Originally posted by jinzin
how so? the last time I checked spiderman had two webshooters and wolverine had two sets of claws..gonna be hard to completely engulf wolverine in webbing when they are coming in linear strands from a single direction...as opposed to when he literally slashed his way out of being engulfed by the entirety of the venom symbiote because he was slashing away so fast..and the symbiote came at him from every angle....

2 guns or 2 knives. Spiderman can utilize those webs for more than slashing, wolveirne isn't getting out of it, once his claws are useless, if peter hits him on the legs he trips, he doesn't need as much webbing as you make it seem.

Originally posted by jinzin
precog that's done little else than warn him of the up and coming ass beating he's about to recieve from almost any extraordianarily good h2h fighter...wolverine definitely falls into this category...

Don't go by wolveirne feats, spiderman's precog has all but been downplayed as wolverine has been upplayed.
Where is this extraordinary fighting? Slash, spiderman is an extraordinary fighter as well, his style is better than mundane stlyles, people of logans physicality can't do it.

Spiderman's pre cog does well against logan, period.

[QUOTE=4451916]Originally posted by jinzin
[B]hmmmmmmmm daredevil beat up doc ock....wolverine put daredevil in a full nelson by the second panal of a fight...do the math...

Don't go by villan defeats, he dodged tentacles, claws are no different.

I gotta go, but the "skilled fighter" isnt cutting it.

It matters less if they don't have the speed or strength.

Batman has skills, but we all know he loses against spidey hand2hand, and he doesn't have a good job fooling that precog.

Wolverine can hurt spiderman, but spiderman can hurt wolverine. Spiderman hurt hulk, and unlike wolverine, hulk gets better and better.

Beserker rage isn't all that much of an upgrade. Considered, it increses him, but not even on the speed and strength of peter.

I'm out, holla back.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Fighting to the best of abilities, why would wolverine be near spiderman to a wall, stop and turn around, doesn't make much sense to me.

why would they be right next to a wall for spiderman's convenience in the first place..this is exaclty why these fights should be in the middle of bum****nowhere..because everything else is circumstantial....anyways....he'd get the **** away from the wall because it's the smart thing to do.....he's a master tactician/battle-strategist...if I can figure it out...I'm sure he can......

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Picture yourself enraged, you chase me, I'm only higher than you, so you turn around and leave.

again...you're not following trains of thought very well......spiderman on the wall has an advantage due to his long ranged weaponry vs. short ranged weaponry...so for your scenario to be more accurate....I would be fighting you with a knife and body armor...while you have a gun... you hop on the wall....what am I supposed to do from here? shake my fist at you because I'm more eager to fight..or the smart thing, and take cover?.....that answer your question? and before you say that I can't think clearly enough to do so because I'm "enraged" I have to point out that this logic would also be inherently flawed because you would be under the same state of rage...why would you have more common sense than i to get out of a dangerous situation if we're both "blinded by rage"?...lol...you wouldn't...

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
No, the target of his body is MUCH more than the claws, spiderman is skilled, he can easily shoot logans body, and logan falls if its in the legs, otherwise he stops to get rid of it, a critical mistake.

again...you're assuming wolverine's just standing there taking it..he can jump out of the way..if he chooses to use his claws the claws meet the webbing....spiderman can be shooting for his foot..won't matter if wolverine's claws meet the webbing first though....

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Not my point, fighting h2h uses more than speed and strength, but guess which are the main factors. Speed and strength, the stronger the muscle in a body the faster it moves.
Where you get that he is credited in one thing, but does he apply it,no!
He doesn't need to, wolverine doesnt dodge bullets and attacks as often as he gets hit by them purposefully, this is apparent to everyone but you.

if you have one person with razor edged knives vs. a muscle man...strength is no longer a factor...if the muscle man can't incapacitate the knife guy strength is not a factor....if muslce man only has a small advantage over the knife guy but can't keep his advantage speed will not continue to be at his advantage....but even here you're simply ignoring that these factors are not everything in a fight..for instance...I've seen a master adept at tai chi literally KO a large samoan black belt who trained in the hun gar- kung fu fighting style for years in a monastary by simply flipping him around...the tai chi master tossed him all over the place until he basically incapacitated himself..obviously speed and strength didn't play THAT HUGE of a factor here...and the fact that you continue to state over and over that wolverine doesn't apply his fighting ability only continues to prove to me that you know and understand very little of the character you're arguing against....and no wolverine does not dodge those attacks and bullets all the time you are right...but he does when he wants to or needs to...this seems to be apparent to everyone but you...

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
He's coordinted enough to nail fast enough targets with more momentum far away, play it smart or not, wolverine isn't physically capable to AVOID spiderman's webbing, comic or not.
Spiderman knows logan enough to make the claws useless while webbing, not following trains of thought there..

so now you're implying that webbings faster than machine gun fire?

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I'm not following yours because it isn't accurate, why couldn't he web, spiderman has EQUAL or moreso, fighting in options in the air and on the walls, logans a ground fighter and needs peter on his terms, a disadvantage.

so then you're admittedly ignoring the cores of my arguments....pathetic....what isn't accurate? care to illaborate? anything that isn't just opinion vs. opinion.....? anything?
it's only a disadvantage if logan CHOOSES to attempt to follow him on a wall....for example....you're going to fight a guy and have 30 people to help you do it...however he chooses to never fight you unless to come to a specific location alone...the advantage you once had is no longer yours.....

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
30 feet is only ten yards, peter has hit smaller and faster moving targets with ease, I simply disagree.

were any of those targets wolverine attempting to avoid or nullify the webbing?
no? didn't think so....

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
2 guns or 2 knives. Spiderman can utilize those webs for more than slashing, wolveirne isn't getting out of it, once his claws are useless, if peter hits him on the legs he trips, he doesn't need as much webbing as you make it seem..

after getting ONE....one.....ONE arm free wolverine easily slashed his way out of being completely webbed up in a measily 2 or 3 panals...with ONE ARM....yet with two in a position ready and waiting for the webbing he can't easily cut himself free? riiiiiiiiight...lest we forget...we're all still assuming wolverine's said "to hell with taking cover and avoiding the webbing alltogether" nice benefit of the doubt you got going there....

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Don't go by wolveirne feats,..

this pretty much says it all.....you JUST said you disagreed with my theories on logan vs. webbing based on......................... FEATS........yet we shouldn't go by logans? 😂 that's the most pathetic attempt at an argument I've ever seen....and you're an idiot if you think that for a moment I'm going to comprimise the character or my argument or the proof to back up both in this debate just because...you said so...........HA......"don't go by his feats they make spiderman look bad" 😂

I suppose we can't go by ryu's abilities based on feat either huh?

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
spiderman's precog has all but been downplayed as wolverine has been upplayed.
Where is this extraordinary fighting? Slash, spiderman is an extraordinary fighter as well, his style is better than mundane stlyles, people of logans physicality can't do it.

ummmm actually daredevil has a comparitive style, taskmaster as the exact same style, wolverine's proven that he can use a similar style to spidey's enough to trick bystanders into believing he WAS spidey....spidey's got a strength factor that makes his moves look more impressive...not much more than that....and where is this extraordinary fighting? i guess you don't read very many wolvie books do you?

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Spiderman's pre cog does well against logan, period.

oh you mean like it did against, macendale, creed, daredevil, shang chi, captain america, man mountain marko, iron fist, the white ninja, wolverine, those kids in the sins past story line, hammerhead, and fancy dan?

let me think on this one----- NO!

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Don't go by villan defeats, he dodged tentacles, claws are no different.

😂
😂
😂

don't go by this don't go by that....wtf are we supposed to go by..your opinion? HA....not a chance in hell bud.....claws ARE different actually.....the stragic improvisation, tactical mastery, and insane amount of fighting ability are not intigrated into doc ocks tenticals....claws are alot different infact...they can shred the hell out of doc ocks arms..what does that tell you other than if they are different...it's that they are more dangerous...and another thing...i've seen dock ocks tenticals wrap spidey up like a rank amature on a number of occasions....just food for thought.....

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I gotta go, but the "skilled fighter" isnt cutting it.

It matters less if they don't have the speed or strength.

Batman has skills, but we all know he loses against spidey hand2hand, and he doesn't have a good job fooling that precog.

Wolverine can hurt spiderman, but spiderman can hurt wolverine. Spiderman hurt hulk, and unlike wolverine, hulk gets better and better.

Beserker rage isn't all that much of an upgrade. Considered, it increses him, but not even on the speed and strength of peter.

I'm out, holla back.

actually wolverine gets better and better to some extent as well..i already gave a prime example of this in his fight against sabretooth...

btw I thought we weren't supposed to go by feats?

😂

and so what if spiderman's staggered...STAGGERED I SAY...hulk...wolvie's nearly KILLED him and been in the position to do so on at least 3 or 4 seperate occasions....

Originally posted by jinzin
why would they be right next to a wall for spiderman's convenience in the first place..this is exaclty why these fights should be in the middle of bum****nowhere..because everything else is circumstantial....anyways....he'd get the **** away from the wall because it's the smart thing to do.....he's a master tactician/battle-strategist...if I can figure it out...I'm sure he can......

So you admit that I was right, but too full of yourself then, if wolverine was chasing spiderman, why would he run away then, and do it successfully on an instant? Trying to make it good for your wolvigod eh?

Originally posted by jinzin
again...you're not following trains of thought very well......spiderman on the wall has an advantage due to his long ranged weaponry vs. short ranged weaponry...so for your scenario to be more accurate....I would be fighting you with a knife and body armor...while you have a gun... you hop on the wall....what am I supposed to do from here? shake my fist at you because I'm more eager to fight..or the smart thing, and take cover?.....that answer your question? and before you say that I can't think clearly enough to do so because I'm "enraged" I have to point out that this logic would also be inherently flawed because you would be under the same state of rage...why would you have more common sense than i to get out of a dangerous situation if we're both "blinded by rage"?...lol...you wouldn't...

Take cover, but how well would you do in getting away if I have a gun? The problem is you seem to think spiderman is a peak human, while wolverine is the superhuman, that says it all.

Originally posted by jinzin
again...you're assuming wolverine's just standing there taking it..he can jump out of the way..if he chooses to use his claws the claws meet the webbing....spiderman can be shooting for his foot..won't matter if wolverine's claws meet the webbing first though....

Too bad he's not fast enough, noones assuming he's taking it.

Your argument, wolveirne's just gonna dodge all of everything, shrug off all of the hits, and get a one stab on spiderman, pathetic.

Originally posted by jinzin
if you have one person with razor edged knives vs. a muscle man...strength is no longer a factor...if the muscle man can't incapacitate the knife guy strength is not a factor....if muslce man only has a small advantage over the knife guy but can't keep his advantage speed will not continue to be at his advantage....but even here you're simply ignoring that these factors are not everything in a fight..for instance...I've seen a master adept at tai chi literally KO a large samoan black belt who trained in the hun gar- kung fu fighting style for years in a monastary by simply flipping him around...the tai chi master tossed him all over the place until he basically incapacitated himself..obviously speed and strength didn't play THAT HUGE of a factor here...and the fact that you continue to state over and over that wolverine doesn't apply his fighting ability only continues to prove to me that you know and understand very little of the character you're arguing against....and no wolverine does not dodge those attacks and bullets all the time you are right...but he does when he wants to or needs to...this seems to be apparent to everyone but you...

Exactly, you just argued against yourself there, too bad spiderman is also faster, and you can't grasp logic too well. If you were to put a man in claws and give him a healing factor, vs a guy who can go BEYOND what a human does with ease, who would win.

If you think nothing plays a factor over wolverine, that shows how big of a fanboy you are, and it doesn;t surprise me that you think he beats namor, venom, and carnage.

And again, can a human simply win because of skill, skill doesn't make up for someone who outclasses him in every aspect, ask batman. unless you plan on beating up animals. You show time and time again that you use no logic at all, and i still must make you look like an ass.

Originally posted by jinzin
so now you're implying that webbings faster than machine gun fire?

DD and electra hit him fine, wolverine only goes as fast as he should, not as fast as you want to, and he's damned near more accuarate than a man at a machine gun. Wolverine gained superhuman speed.

Originally posted by jinzin
so then you're admittedly ignoring the cores of my arguments....pathetic....what isn't accurate? care to illaborate? anything that isn't just opinion vs. opinion.....? anything?
it's only a disadvantage if logan CHOOSES to attempt to follow him on a wall....for example....you're going to fight a guy and have 30 people to help you do it...however he chooses to never fight you unless to come to a specific location alone...the advantage you once had is no longer yours.....

Thats where the long ranged comes in, logan doesn't have a choice in that, does everyone have to fight logan on your terms?

Originally posted by jinzin
were any of those targets wolverine attempting to avoid or nullify the webbing?
no? didn't think so....

Were they stronger and faster? Yes, the fact that you FAIL to acknowledge how easily logan can be webbed and subdued doesn;t surprise me, just like you want logan to fight were it suits his advangtage.

If logan gets hit by any webbing, he wont just keep moving, for him to stop makes him vurnerable to more? Oh I get it, he gets a time out for you right?

Originally posted by jinzin
after getting ONE....one.....ONE arm free wolverine easily slashed his way out of being completely webbed up in a measily 2 or 3 panals...with ONE ARM....yet with two in a position ready and waiting for the webbing he can't easily cut himself free? riiiiiiiiight...lest we forget...we're all still assuming wolverine's said "to hell with taking cover and avoiding the webbing alltogether" nice benefit of the doubt you got going there....

How did wolverine get his arm free, did he gain superhuman strength? Too bad you still like to believe whatever supports wolveirne.

Lets not also forget spiderman wasnt there, proving you like very selective arguments to wave in your favor.

Originally posted by jinzin
this pretty much says it all.....you JUST said you disagreed with my theories on logan vs. webbing based on......................... FEATS........yet we shouldn't go by logans? 😂 that's the most pathetic attempt at an argument I've ever seen....and you're an idiot if you think that for a moment I'm going to comprimise the character or my argument or the proof to back up both in this debate just because...you said so...........HA......"don't go by his feats they make spiderman look bad" 😂

NO, becuase you do SHIT LITTLE to back them up, much lesss explain.

You've given me no reason as to why he is strong enough to get out.

You can't smell shit writing.

You seem to forget which ones are valid and not, making YOU shouldn't be able to use them.

Mister:" wolveirne beats carnage, because he knows he's crazy.

He beats thor and venom too huh? You are a fanboy, and what's worse, is that you read the stuff, and you still give biased arguments, your credibility is low.
'
[QUOTE=4452365]Originally posted by jinzin
[B]I suppose we can't go by ryu's abilities based on feat either huh?


Different, since his in that particular showing weren't in the same universe, and they went with his abilities.

You don't explain how wolverine should jump fifty feet in the air or nothing.

I explained how he would lose, too bad you can't grasp logan losing, fanboy.

Like K3vil, whobdamandog, whokid, and MISTER, and others said you are a fanboy underneath/\.

Whats worse, its your argument 90% of the time, this and a smilie, pititful, no wonder people say your posts are childish.

Originally posted by jinzin
ummmm actually daredevil has a comparitive style, taskmaster as the exact same style, wolverine's proven that he can use a similar style to spidey's enough to trick bystanders into believing he WAS spidey....spidey's got a strength factor that makes his moves look more impressive...not much more than that....and where is this extraordinary fighting? i guess you don't read very many wolvie books do you?

Yep, and you seem to forget that logan is what a human can accomplish period. He isn't even twice as fast nor as strong as another peak human.

Spiderman creams DD, and taskmaster, thats fighting. Styles matters not its who wins. You still think batman is a better fighter, its proificency, not efficiency.

Can logan ko 5 people without touching the ground?

Wolverine boy: Oh wolverine's only SLIGHTLY slower and weaker and than spiderman.

I can read fewer books than you, but you suck at analyzing them for your characters.

You still think wolverine's still unknockoutable.

Originally posted by jinzin
oh you mean like it did against, macendale, creed, daredevil, shang chi, captain america, man mountain marko, iron fist, the white ninja, wolverine, those kids in the sins past story line, hammerhead, and fancy dan?

let me think on this one----- NO!

lol, and most of these people spiderman easily beat, thus its weakened, therefore proving my point.

It damned sure worked on hulk and others like titania, could wolverine beat her, no. How about venom, I shouldn't have asked you that, you always go by what you read.

😂
😂
😂

Originally posted by jinzin
don't go by this don't go by that....wtf are we supposed to go by..your opinion? HA....not a chance in hell bud.....claws ARE different actually.....the stragic improvisation, tactical mastery, and insane amount of fighting ability are not intigrated into doc ocks tenticals....claws are alot different infact...they can shred the hell out of doc ocks arms..what does that tell you other than if they are different...it's that they are more dangerous...and another thing...i've seen dock ocks tenticals wrap spidey up like a rank amature on a number of occasions....just food for thought.....

Is he a villan, yep. Eleckra caused wolveirne problems.

You still use spiderman at his weakest, and wolverine at his strongest. You want wolverine to ko namor and not flinch, and you want spiderman to get in grabs by kingpin, which it should be the opposite in both examples.

Due to the amount of bitching in your posts,(90% of it by the way.) nOne of its that good of material, I'd say you are stilll bitter by the truth.

But like cresh said, Its understandable for jinzin to be bitter in a debate with you.

C-hater arguments, crap. ***** ***** *****, thats all you do, and put a smilie and a pfft at the end. If I wanted so many smilies, I would have went to the off topic forum.

And run a spellcheck.

Originally posted by jinzin
actually wolverine gets better and better to some extent as well..i already gave a prime example of this in his fight against sabretooth...

btw I thought we weren't supposed to go by feats?

😂

and so what if spiderman's staggered...STAGGERED I SAY...hulk...wolvie's nearly KILLED him and been in the position to do so on at least 3 or 4 seperate occasions....

Another fanboy argument, don't know what wolveirne can and can't do.

namor, carnage, hulk, all of these are beatable by wolverine?

Why do I even bother, you're as bad as lifeasaglich.

Enjoy my limited time, because of my dead computer, I would've shot your hollow arguments long ago, but you've been lucky.

"You are hard to understand jinzin aren't you?Why you act like a Wolvie fanboy?
Thor has milleniums of battle experience, Logan's fightning skills compared to his are like comparing a bycicle to a Ducati 999.
Thor has godlike reflexes and reaction time, Wolverine is still too slow to hit Thor, even if he's aided from other 14 dwarfs with adamantium bones and claws.
In the scan I've posted Thor is beating the crap outta two guys who are stronger and faster than Logan, and equipped with Mjolnir's replicas.
If Thor can outspeed them in hth he certainly can outspeed 15 Wolverines.
Wolverine has Peak Human reflexes and speed.
Loki and Fenris are SUPERHUMAN
Superhuman>Peak Human.
Thor>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wolverine.
You haven't still proved Wolverine can damage or do something to Thor except for annoying him.
Thor fought with armies of Trolls when Logan wasn't even born, Trolls are superhuman in almost all their physical abilities.
This arguing 15 Logans can beat Thor is just fanboy bu.ll.s.hit.

Do you remember Wolverin catching in fight Ogun?A guy who moves a lightspeed?
It means crap writing, that's what your assumptions are based on.
Following any single pushover/crap feat of Logan, he should be able to knock out Silver Surfer.
Check the scan posted in a Wolverine VS topic, the Wrecker throw Logan dozen feet up into air away from him just by grabbing him for the costume.
Wolverine is PUSHOVER."

Someone else agrees, you are a biased fanboy.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Lets try this, wolverine isn't getting on spiderman who can outdistance him,
Until Spiderman tires.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
and everything else is a misinterpretation.

"I do deserve this but this kinda hurts" is begging for his life?

Yeah that's a misinterpritation.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
True..

Jinzin at leasts makes up an explanation, he tries.

Would you even bother arguing with someone who said

"woveren roxors spyds boxors, so spyds loss n wolveren wins! lol!"

Fair enough, but why is spiderman tiring? He has superhuman metabolism, he can outdistance fine, logan isn't tiring him...

"OUCH, god that hurts!"

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Fair enough, but why is spiderman tiring? He has superhuman metabolism, he can outdistance fine, logan isn't tiring him...

"OUCH, god that hurts!"

Spiderman's healing factor is better than Wolverines?

No not what i meant, but a guy that can easily outdistance him with his physicality, won't be pushing himself to the point of exhaustion. Thats all.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
No not what i meant, but a guy that can easily outdistance him with his physicality, won't be pushing himself to the point of exhaustion. Thats all.
But he will tire first because wolver'ines factor is better. is what I'm saying.

Agreed, but fights don't last that long, and spiderman can keep in before the fight would allow him to get tired, granted they both are no rookies.